KF21 will not be an affordable plane to fill the target number. 2 engines, AESA, low RCS, low know how (ie long testing)... = not affordable.
With a farm door RCS, it's unlikely.
They have decently sized economy but I have huge doubts if they can afford both aircrafts. Indonesia is not a rich gulf state with surplus oil money. It's either the Rafale's or the f-15EX and looking at the f-15ID deal I have huge doubts if the indonesians will shell out that amount of money.
lefauteuildecolbert.blogspot.com
I see now no future for F15 in Indonesia. Too costly, too many Rafale purchased. Better to purchase some more F16 to fill the quantity.
The price of a pure fighter for one KF-21, claimed by KAI, the manufacturer of the kf-21, is $60 million. As a LOW RCS fighter, the KF-21 is price-competitive enough if it succeeds in defending the price they claim.
The Air forces normally do. the politicians who make the decisions, not so much.
Indonesia has a lot of political infighting that goes in the way of rational, optimized procurement decisions. Consider that their defense minister is a political opponent of their president, with all the petty maneuvering that this implies.
Tentara Nasional Indonesia - Angkatan Laut : protocole d'entente pour deux Scorpène
Blog proposant souvent de suivre les programmes anciens, nouveaux de la Marine nationale et parfois de faire de même pour les marines étrangères.
No way it costs $60 million . The super-hornet itself costs atleast $80-150 million.
Maybe without R&D costs. Only production costs.... And even then, it's not so sure.
About Rafale, F-15, and Scorpène…
AsiaTimes, feb.18:
(…) Asia Times’ senior security correspondent Gabriel Honrada, who covered the Rafale fighter jet deal, isn’t sure the F-15 sale will go ahead. He explains why in this week’s Q&A.
How has France’s approach to Indo-Pacific relations changed following the establishment of the trilateral AUKUS alliance and where does Indonesia now fit into Paris’ strategic calculus?
France does not want to be left behind as an established global power after the establishment of AUKUS. They are the only European power with established interests in the Pacific, with New Caledonia, Wallis and Futuna, and French Polynesia being their territories in the region, with their interests focused on sovereignty, values, and diplomatic status.
As France cherishes its strategic autonomy, it is trying to build a network of defense partners independent of the US through engaging like-minded countries such as Indonesia. Indonesia’s decision to purchase Rafale jets from France establishes a tangible focal point of this defense partnership.
France and Indonesia are both wary of being drawn by the US into an aggressive confrontation against China given their strategic partnerships with the latter, and they have concerns of being reduced into US subordinate dependents.
Could France’s Rafale fighter jet deal with Indonesia cajole the US into making its pricier F-15 procurement proposal more attractive for Jakarta, which is still emerging from a pandemic-induced recession?
The US’ offer of F-15 fighters to Indonesia could be seen as a deal sweetener to scale up US-Indonesia defense relations, given Indonesia’s de facto leadership role in Southeast Asia and the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN), and its impeccable timing right after Indonesia’s decision to get Rafale jets from France. However, Indonesia may be wary of acquiring these jets from the US, as the US imposed an arms embargo on Indonesia in 1999 due to alleged human rights abuses in Papua New Guinea, which rendered its F-16 fleet inoperable. Clearly, Indonesia does not want a repeat incident, and this may have been its main reason for sticking to France for its fighter jet requirements.
US Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin is scheduled to visit Indonesia in March. I think this is part of the Biden Administration’s efforts to reassure US partners and allies after the Trump administration’s abrasive approach and the disastrous US withdrawal from Afghanistan. However, I expect more diplomatic and political reassurances than something concrete, possibly in the form of joint military exercises, which aim to shape Southeast Asian perceptions of the US as a reliable and committed partner as a form of insurance against China.
Indonesia is on a military modernization program spurred on by China’s assertiveness in the South China Sea, with the archipelagic nation aiming to build a modern naval fleet and acquire aircraft to support that fleet. Will Jakarta also look to France to acquire submarines and warships?
As Indonesia already has a technology transfer agreement with South Korea for its Type 209 submarines, I doubt Indonesia will go for France’s Scorpene-class. Having multiple suppliers of military equipment poses potential interoperability concerns and requires multiple training and maintenance programs which may add to complexity and cost.
Also, Malaysia operates the Scorpene-class, and it has an ongoing maritime territorial dispute with Indonesia over Ambalat in the Celebes Sea, which is believed to have significant oil reserves. Indonesia and Malaysia have had naval standoffs in this disputed area. If Indonesia chooses to acquire Scorpene boats from France, then Malaysia will have first-hand knowledge on the type’s capabilities and limitations.
Indonesia spoiled for choice as it mulls F-15 deal
Indonesia’s order of 42 Rafale fighter jets, a US$8.1 billion deal confirmed on February 10 by France's defense ministry, has made Jakarta the second biggest French military procurement client in Southeast Asia after Singapore. The big-ticket purchase has also highlighted Paris’ bid to...mailchi.mp
Given the previous article on serious differences within the government , I'd say there's more of a likelihood of different interest groups being rewarded by their representatives in the government by reaching some sort of accomodation.About Rafale, F-15, and Scorpène…
AsiaTimes, feb.18:
(…) Asia Times’ senior security correspondent Gabriel Honrada, who covered the Rafale fighter jet deal, isn’t sure the F-15 sale will go ahead. He explains why in this week’s Q&A.
How has France’s approach to Indo-Pacific relations changed following the establishment of the trilateral AUKUS alliance and where does Indonesia now fit into Paris’ strategic calculus?
France does not want to be left behind as an established global power after the establishment of AUKUS. They are the only European power with established interests in the Pacific, with New Caledonia, Wallis and Futuna, and French Polynesia being their territories in the region, with their interests focused on sovereignty, values, and diplomatic status.
As France cherishes its strategic autonomy, it is trying to build a network of defense partners independent of the US through engaging like-minded countries such as Indonesia. Indonesia’s decision to purchase Rafale jets from France establishes a tangible focal point of this defense partnership.
France and Indonesia are both wary of being drawn by the US into an aggressive confrontation against China given their strategic partnerships with the latter, and they have concerns of being reduced into US subordinate dependents.
Could France’s Rafale fighter jet deal with Indonesia cajole the US into making its pricier F-15 procurement proposal more attractive for Jakarta, which is still emerging from a pandemic-induced recession?
The US’ offer of F-15 fighters to Indonesia could be seen as a deal sweetener to scale up US-Indonesia defense relations, given Indonesia’s de facto leadership role in Southeast Asia and the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN), and its impeccable timing right after Indonesia’s decision to get Rafale jets from France. However, Indonesia may be wary of acquiring these jets from the US, as the US imposed an arms embargo on Indonesia in 1999 due to alleged human rights abuses in Papua New Guinea, which rendered its F-16 fleet inoperable. Clearly, Indonesia does not want a repeat incident, and this may have been its main reason for sticking to France for its fighter jet requirements.
US Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin is scheduled to visit Indonesia in March. I think this is part of the Biden Administration’s efforts to reassure US partners and allies after the Trump administration’s abrasive approach and the disastrous US withdrawal from Afghanistan. However, I expect more diplomatic and political reassurances than something concrete, possibly in the form of joint military exercises, which aim to shape Southeast Asian perceptions of the US as a reliable and committed partner as a form of insurance against China.
Indonesia is on a military modernization program spurred on by China’s assertiveness in the South China Sea, with the archipelagic nation aiming to build a modern naval fleet and acquire aircraft to support that fleet. Will Jakarta also look to France to acquire submarines and warships?
As Indonesia already has a technology transfer agreement with South Korea for its Type 209 submarines, I doubt Indonesia will go for France’s Scorpene-class. Having multiple suppliers of military equipment poses potential interoperability concerns and requires multiple training and maintenance programs which may add to complexity and cost.
Also, Malaysia operates the Scorpene-class, and it has an ongoing maritime territorial dispute with Indonesia over Ambalat in the Celebes Sea, which is believed to have significant oil reserves. Indonesia and Malaysia have had naval standoffs in this disputed area. If Indonesia chooses to acquire Scorpene boats from France, then Malaysia will have first-hand knowledge on the type’s capabilities and limitations.
Indonesia spoiled for choice as it mulls F-15 deal
Indonesia’s order of 42 Rafale fighter jets, a US$8.1 billion deal confirmed on February 10 by France's defense ministry, has made Jakarta the second biggest French military procurement client in Southeast Asia after Singapore. The big-ticket purchase has also highlighted Paris’ bid to...mailchi.mp
Apparently the French have no reservations about receiving coconuts & palm oil in barter for the jets sold . The latter would be used in the making of environment friendly bio fuel . I don't know what they propose to do with the former .
