why would they give 72hrs advance warning , a surprise attack is what they would have carried out if they wanted max damage.
Israel-Hamas Conflict: Updates & Discussions
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Are you being serious? They put 30 of their best jets, force multipliers and crews at risk to attempt to penetrate the Indian air space and that's only a show of force?
A better prepared country with a backbone would have gone to war over this "show of force."
Both Swift Retreat and Galwan were sufficient triggers for all-out war. And the military were prepared to go to war in both incidents.
All they did was mutually retreat from one area. It was just another meaningless face-saving gesture. Two steps forward, one step back.
No. The last time they tried this was in 1967. They gained one area and lost one, but both were negotiated for. In one area, the military quietly retreated, in another area, the commander fought back and kept control.
My post was in reference to Pakistan's Swift Retreat.
Anyway, yeah, Iran had already warned the nature of the attack and the day it was going to happen 3 days prior. They also revealed their targets, so the West was better prepared to defend.
Iran's attack on Israel was the complete opposite of Swift Retreat.
I'm hoping they don't. Iran just learned a lesson that they need a fighter jet fleet for SEAD/DEAD before they attempt such hail mary attacks. No point in helping to reinforce that opinion.
They wanted to show their capability. The Iranian missile arsenal is just older Chinese and noko missile rip-off's. They can easily be intercepted on top of that NATO af's also assisted. The Iranians wanted to give as much as damage they could but failed because the iron dome, arrow and David sling combo is pretty effective. We don't have anything close to that when facing the Chinese or Pakistanis for that matter.
We lost in Galwan. Apparently we have lost 2000 SQ km after the discussion in 2022. The buffer zone has been considered a Chinese gain
View attachment 33017
2020–2021 China–India skirmishes - Wikipedia
en.m.wikipedia.org
It's unfortunate, downright criminal, that politicians put us in such a situation. We lost all that land in 2020.
Yes.
And if it wasn't for Abhinandan's MiG getting shot down, we would have laughed our behinds off at how they failed to hit a single thing of value on the ground. And he only got shot down because we couldn't coordinate our actions properly due to lack of sufficient numbers of AEWs & data-links and reliance on GCIs as a result.
The military is always prepared to carry out attacks if asked, that's their job.
But the decision to start a war against a nuclear-armed state involves so much more than that. And a nuclear-armed state that's also an industrial superpower that can outproduce your war economy 20-to-1? While the possibility of ending up in a two-front conflict still exists?
Just how stupid do you think GoI ought to be? You do realize the aim of the Chinese provocations is to goad you into doing exactly that while they still retain the advantage?
We kept losing access to various Patrol Points as a result of salami-slicing years before 2019.
We had no ability to impose significant costs on the Chinese back then and won't have for quite a while in fact.
We are a resilient state, not a fragile one. The idea of our nationhood isn't going to crumble because we couldn't respond to a provocation. We know we cannot overwhelm our enemies at the moment. We will fight if war is imposed on us, as we did at every point it was imposed on us, but if the ball is in our court - we will be smart in choosing the opportune moment to pay them back.
We will set the conditions, then we act.
We have no intention to become like Pakistan in 1971.
@BMD @Innominate
A taste of what lies in store for the US and UK in the near future.
Thread.
Vote right or meet the same fate as India. Rawaswamy 2029 and Sunak 2025. Modi 2024.
A taste of what lies in store for the US and UK in the near future.
Thread.
Vote right or meet the same fate as India. Rawaswamy 2029 and Sunak 2025. Modi 2024.
He didn't get shot down for any such reason. He simply went outside the ability of others to support him, he even sent his wingman back. He took a risk and it paid off. Regardless, my point was while Iran's posture was to send a message, the Pakistanis were extremely serious in their actions.
No, the military wasn't prepared in 2008.
India had tactical advantage in 2020. The Chinese were not prepared to fight.
What? No, we did not.
Why would we crumble as a nation state due to such inaction? All I'm saying is our weaknesses led to enemies taking action knowing that we won't fire back.
Why would it? The only choice to replace them is the same party that led us to the 2008 debt crisis. Lot's of people lost their houses and livelihoods, people have not forgotten.
Well, that's your own sectarian problems. Your massacres have seen to their continuance.
Swift retreat was a high level attack and actual attack. Can't be compared to what Iran did. Pakistan is ahead than Iran when it comes to military. But what I find little amazing is, every on jumping in to claim that their planes shot the drones down , France, UK, USA all of them.
Not in India it isn't. You are the same civilisation, that's not the same as receiving dumpings from different continents.
The swift retreat was after the attack failed.
Some on should ask Pakistanis that did the trees call back on wireless chatter that they have been bombed by Indian air force in Balakot? Pakistanis did not detect the intrusion at all. And Swift Retort was a sophisticated air raid and actual attack than a these drone and missile barrage with all the information already provided. But it ended up as Swift Retreat
Yeah because he had no idea how far away he got from rest of the flight group. It was a failure of situational awareness brought on by lack of networking.
How is Pakistan serious & Iran not serious? They both launched attacks that caused little to no damage to the 'intended' targets. In fact you could say the Pakistanis took more care to ensure the escalation is contained as they used precision-guided weapons & struck a military area that at the time was in what was only nominally part of India.
Iran threw ballistic missiles which are fairly inaccurate & they had no control over what they hit. What if they had killed dozens or hundreds of civilians? How could Iran realistically expect Israel not to retaliate after that?
If you consider escalation management to at least partly consist of not being reckless in what you attack & where, the Pakistanis were much more considerate in containing the escalation than the Iranians.
Prepared in the sense that they would carry out orders given.
How likely is it for the ensuing conflict going to end in your favour is a different matter.
We weren't 'prepared' after the 2001 Parliament attack either. But we mobilized anyway, didn't we?
We could have made some initial gains at the frontline, but what then?
The Chinese still had far superior infrastructure on their side of the LAC. They would have reinforced & pushed us right back, even further back than we currently hold because by that point they'd only be responding to an Indian attack which would have allowed them the casus belli to push deep into our territory, even beyond their perception of the LAC.
We had very minimal infrastructure that was operational back then to induct new forces into theatre. We hadn't even inducted Rafale & S400 back then. We were simply in no position to go to war, period.
We still aren't. Not against China. That ability is still a work in progress that hopefully will be completed by end of decade.
Just one example, from 2013:
Chinese Army has occupied 640 square km in three Ladakh sectors, says report
China People Liberation Army (PLA) has incrementally occupied nearly 640 square km of area on the Line of Actual Control (LoAC) in Ladakh in the past few months.
First of all, Swift Retort & Galwan were not enemy actions - they were enemy reactions.
Pak was used to conducting several terror strikes on Indian forces/civilians, the most we used to do before then were SF ops across the LoC to target launch pads in PoK. But what we did in Balakot was a major escalation compared to what we usually do - use of airpower to bomb sovereign Pakistani territory & kill targets in triple or at least double digits.
The myth of Pak being able to shield terrorists on its sovereign land because of the nuclear umbrella was shattered. They were compelled to respond.
The incident at Galwan (and the confrontation near Pangong lake that preceded it) were the result of local PLA commanders being taken aback by some of the moves IA had made immediately prior. Such as opening up a new path to patrol all the way up to Finger 8 by coming in from the north, which we hadn't been able to do before since 1962.
The area commanders probably sh@t themselves thinking they'll be blamed for losing the sector and took matters into their own hands to confront Indian patrols aggressively. This was also the reason they rushed in so many forces to fortify the fingers immediately thereafter. And remember, most of the deaths at Galwan were because soldiers fell into the icy cold river from which they couldn't be rescued in time.
You cannot just go starting a war with anyone because there was a skirmish. You're being nuts if you think we should have gone to war with China over Galwan. The price for killing our soldiers was paid on that day itself - we killed several of theirs as well. Beyond that, only thing we should have done was to dig in for the long haul, let China know that we see them as an adversary, develop our infrastructure & industry, and finish our build-out so that we can be in a better position to fight the conventional war when needed to. Which is exactly what we did.
Think about it, after the US killed Gen. Soleimani, the Iranians struck a US-controlled air base with ballistic missiles. Did the US go to war with Iran over that? Or recognized that this was managed escalation and toned down the tensions?
Iranian leaders also want to pacify their population that they have retaliated, without escalating the situation. I am of an opinion that the info to Israelis about those generals in Iranian consulate was rather provided by Iran itself. Rest is all drama. Russians do not want Iran to get involved in any war, because they have to fight Ukraine war with Iranian supplies.
There were a lot of participants.
Marxist crap + Islam against conservative Hinduism. Yeah, that's called a clash of civilizations.
You are dealing with the same crap.
Relative small scale compared to what would be available if NATO went to war with Russia.
Same area, same civilisation, different religions. UK is different civilisations and different religions.
Anyway, we take a short intermission to bring you this noble submission to the annual Darwin Awards:
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