LCA Tejas Mk1 & Mk1A - News and discussions


Yes and No. IAF needs Mk2. India will have the need for single engine fighters for normal patrolling, training and for point defence. You cant keep flying 5th gen for every threat like unauthorized civilian aircrafts, normal day to day patrolling. There is a chance for export market as well.

However the Navy doesnt require Mk2. If Naval AMCA is started now, then by the time Vishal is ready (Whatever its propulsion) you could have an 5th gen ready along with IAF variant.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Sulla84
Obviously wouldn't agree with anything said there.

Mk2 is very important if we want to see AMCA succeed. Anyway, Mk2 will hit the produciton line at least by 2026 or so, and we will have 10 years to produce it before AMCA becomes available. So these jets are not in contention. If Mk2 fails, then we will have to go in for Gripen E anyway. It's not AMCA vs Mk2.

And for all this talk of China and their 5th gen jets, we need PAK FA, period. AMCA is too far away, barely even exists on paper right now.

The article is basically condemning the IAF to a disaster. If we cancel MWF and MMRCA, then that's the end of the air force as a viable force. The author makes no mention of alternatives.

I think he narrowed down his view w.r.t two specific points - the costs of running 2-3 programs simultaneously and our immediate environment where in China will definitely produce better iterations of their 5th Gen FA obviously leading Pakistan to acquire it. We can expect this to happen between 2025-35 timeline. What's our response to it going to be like? There's the third not so minor issue of ADA / HAL / DRDO not adhering to set deadlines. Hence the relevance of the article.

Let me state I'm not in agreement with the views put forward in the article though he makes pertinent points. I see the AMCA programme contingent on the success of the MWF / NLCA - Mk2 & the LO AURA. It's only since MP came up with a via media of Mk1a that we've seen IAF take ownership of the project & a semblance of Project Management happening which in turn should've occured 10-15 years ago. Hence the sequence of Mk1-->Mk1a --> MWF / AURA -->AMCA in successive & progressive iterations needs to be maintained.

Now comes the million dollar question of time & fund / manpower resource allocation. It's only when we see this happen that we can hold ADA responsible and accountable for the quality & timelines.

As regards combatting 5th gen FA on our vicinity, I share your view that the definitive version of the Su-57 should be around 2026-28 timeline. Whether we go for outright import of 1-2 squadrons followed by assembly / manufacturing of 3-4 such squadrons in house a la MKI in a graduated manner or import 5-6 squadrons over 10-15 years is a call which can be taken as & when the Su-57 demonstrates it's potency.

Should it fail our expectations there's ways the next iterations of the Rafales which may make it a pseudo 5th Gen FA Or a hybrid version of it. In. My opinion for whatever it's worth, this should be enough to tackle the first 2 iterations of the Chinese 5th Gen FA. Any other iteration would have to be dealt with by the AMCA. This again is a bit problematic as I'd see the first iterations of the AMCA on par with the first iterations of the Chinese 5th Gen FA unless we go in for a strategic partner .


Hence the timelines of 2030 onwards is very crucial should we not have an indigenous 5th Gen FA & the Su57 fails to materialise. I don't see the F-35 as an option now that we've signed the S-400 deal and possibly eye the S-500 too.Nothing else seems to be on the horizon. Coming back to future iterations of the Rafale, this remains contingent on how soon we go ahead with freezing Rafales as our MMRCA & commencing production out here ASAP.

There's also talk of a single engine NLCA-Mk2. I wonder what's that all about. Further, I personally like you see the development of a N AMCA take precedence over the IAF AMCA. Then there's the Ghatak & AURA programmes too without which AMCA wouldn't progress much.How will the ADA juggle all these projects simultaneously is beyond me?
 
What is going on with the Indian Tejas?
tejas-mk1.jpg

The subject of Tejas, the Indian effort to build a light fighter aircraft, is a hot potato. Rabidly defended by its advocates, lampooned by its opponents and a source of both pride and frustration for those within the programme — what exactly is going on with Tejas? We asked Jim Smith, a man had significant technical roles in the development of many of the UK’s leading military aviation programmes from ASRAAM to the Eurofighter Typhoon.
“The Tejas is a most interesting project, being developed by India through a cooperative venture between Hindustan Aerospace Limited (HAL), several laboratories of the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO), and a number of other companies and suppliers, under the management of the Aircraft Development Agency (ADA), which is an organisation within the Indian MoD. I describe the project as most interesting, because several facets of the programme are unusual, including the technical solution, the programme itself, and the evolving nature of both the requirement and the solution.
I should explain that this article represents an outsider’s perspective, and does not have the advantages of an insider’s view. Also, because it is based on my reading of open source information, it is, of course subject both to the limitations of that information, and my judgements and speculation in interpreting it. I’ll shamelessly admit my principal sources to be Wikipedia and Jane’s All the World’s Aircraft.
I’ll briefly discuss the programme, then look at the current design and the projected development of the aircraft, and finally make some comments on how the programme outcomes have, or have not, met expectations.
iaf_tejas_full_size_32941198511.jpg

Programme Development
The Light Combat Aircraft programme was approved by the Indian government in 1983 with the intention of providing a replacement for the MiG-21. The MiG-21 had been produced in India under license by HAL, and a total of 657 were produced by that company. The aircraft entered service with India in 1964, and remains in service as an interceptor in some numbers. As a fighter aircraft, the MiG-21 was an outstanding success, more than 10,000 aircraft of all variants having been produced, with 60 or so countries having operated the aircraft.
Key characteristics of the MiG-21 include its relatively small size, a single engine tailed-delta configuration, rapid rate of climb and supersonic performance at all levels and up to Mach 2.0 at altitude. Like many interceptors, internal fuel is limited, resulting in short range without external fuel tanks. The delta wing offers low wave drag and high rate of climb, but relatively high lift-dependent drag and poorer performance in turning flight.
The LCA programme has been extremely protracted, with the AF aircraft entering service in January 2015, and the Indian Navy variant currently in flight-test. The Final Operating Clearance of the Tejas 1 AF aircraft was issued in February 2019, 36 years after the initiation of the programme. Further development is ongoing, with the first flight of the substantially developed Mark 2 anticipated in 2023, and an interim standard Mark 1A also expected to fly in 2022.
hindustan_lca_tejas_krivchikov_2007.jpg

Technology and Industry
The Tejas programme should not, however, be considered simply as a prolonged effort to develop a replacement for the MiG-21. It is, in addition, a vehicle to enable the development of the Indian military aerospace industry, with the intent of creating Indian ‘self-reliance’ in the critical technologies of advanced aerospace materials; military propulsion; cockpit displays; flight control systems and radar, and the integration of these technologies into advanced combat aircraft.
Attempts have been made to advance national technology capability in all these areas with varying degrees of success. Perhaps the most successful areas are the development of glass cockpit display, composite aerospace materials and flight control systems, while efforts to develop the indigenous Kaveri engine and the radar for the aircraft appear to have been less successful, and the further development of the aircraft to Mk 1A and Mk 2 seeks to address these aspects, among others.
The programme is a complex one, with the involvement of both Government Research Agencies through the DRDO, Indian Industrial capability, and some assistance from different International partners as the programme has progressed. This is likely to have led to a complex project management and contractual environment, and progress has at times been further complicated by suspension of cooperation due to US concerns over the Indian nuclear programme.
Bearing in mind the desire to develop the Indian aerospace industry capability, there are some similarities with the joint Government and Industry efforts to exploit jet engine technology in the UK following World War II. At that time, many of the relevant technologies were immature, and the principal Government research establishments cooperated closely with Industry to develop, and to resolve the issues of aircraft being developed for both RAF and civil use.
de5kawhvqaatop7.jpg

A further complication has been the changing aerospace technology scene as the programme has progressed. The development of active electronically scanned array (AESA) radar systems; advances in digital flight control systems; electronic warfare; defensive aids; and the advent of stealth technologies have all resulted in an environment in which a lightweight, simple aircraft to replace the MiG-21 as an air defence fighter has perhaps become questionable. These changes in technology and the operational environment are additional drivers towards a Tejas Mk 2 capability.
In addition, India has, of course, selected the Dassault Rafale as an air superiority and strike aircraft, in addition to fielding a very substantial fleet of Su-30MKI and MiG-29s. Some might question the need for a significantly less capable air defence aircraft as well as this fleet of air superiority aircraft, not to mention the multi-role Mirage 2000 and the MiG-21, which remains in service. While not commenting on operational matters, I would simply observe that the availability of a complementary air defence aircraft may provide additional freedom in tasking the air superiority assets. In addition, there are some advantages in operating a largely locally-produced aircraft, not overly reliant on third-party support arrangements.
Tejas Mk 1
lca-tejas-lsp3-elta.jpg

Tejas Mk 1 is a small, single-engine aircraft, featuring a shoulder mounted wing of near-delta configuration, powered by the General Electric F404-GE-IN20 turbofan engine. Compared to the MiG-21, which it is to replace in Indian AF service, the Tejas is ~1.5m shorter, has 60% greater wing area, and features relaxed stability. These features suggest that the Tejas should have significantly better instantaneous turn rate than the MiG-21, although the short fuselage may contribute to a common problem for interceptors – low combat persistence and range due to the relatively low internal fuel.
The aircraft has considerable flexibility to operate in other roles, with the provision of three wet stations for external fuel tanks, out of a total of 7 hardpoints for stores, plus provision for a targeting pod. Naturally, external stores carriage will impact performance, and it is likely that in combat scenarios external fuel tanks would be jettisoned to enhance supersonic performance.
gripen_ground_2340.jpg

Gripen
The Tejas maximum Mach number of 1.8* is less than the Mach 2.0 achieved by both the MiG-21 and the more contemporary Gripen. Given the similar installed thrust, it seems likely that this is due to higher wave drag from the relatively large wing and relatively short fuselage. It is also probable that the MiG, with its variable area intake, may better exploit engine performance when supersonic. These factors will reduce the transonic acceleration, climb rate, maximum Mach number and energy manoeuvrability of the Tejas Mk1.
*This figure may actually only currently be M1.6.
iaf-woman-pilot-iaf-facebook.jpg

MiG-21
Looking at the key technologies being developed for, and by, the Tejas programme, the advanced composite structure, advanced flight control system and modern glass cockpit goals appear to have been largely met, although some concerns have been expressed about the aircraft weight. The desire to develop an indigenous engine and radar for the aircraft, however, has been less successful, and the Mk1 Tejas is fitted with the GE F404 engine, and a hybrid ELTA/M2032 multi-mode radar.
In parallel with the development of the Mk1 AF fighter Tejas, a two-seat trainer and a naval variant are also in development and flight test. The naval variant has a number of significant differences, including a modified structure suitable for arrested landings, an arrester hook, a drooped nose to improve visibility on approach, and inboard leading-edge vortex controllers, to improve low-speed performance and handling. The naval variant has recently conducted its first land-based arrested landing trials.
457114-lca_tejas-indian_air_force.jpg

Tejas Mk 2 (AF)
Given the long development programme of the Tejas, it is unsurprising that aerospace technology has moved on during the programme, and that the Mk 1 product does not fully meet the expectations of today’s Indian AF or Navy. In addition, as noted above some technologies have not matured as expected, and alternatives are required.
From the AF perspective, the following main issues and proposed solutions have been identified:
Reduced endurance due to insufficient internal fuel – greater volume to be found through both a lengthening and a widening of the fuselage.
Lack of sufficient thrust – GE F414 engine to be substituted for the F404 in the Mk 1
Poor transonic acceleration – close-coupled canards to refine wing aerodynamics
1.25m increase in fuselage length, re-profiled canopy, re-designed stores pylons
Inadequate radar performance – Uttam AESA radar to be fitted
Inadequate EW capability – new missile approach warning system, provision of EW pods
Insufficient payload – 11 external pylons to be fitted.
As a consequence of all these changes, the Tejas Mk 2 has been referred to as the Medium Weight Fighter (MWF), and is essentially a new design. With a new engine, and the change in aerodynamics from the introduction of canards, a new set of Flight Control Laws will be required. The introduction of an EW capability and IRST will also impact the man-machine interface and cockpit displays. First flight of this new design is planned for 2023, and the achievement (or not) of this date will be a good indicator of how Indian aerospace capability is progressing.
Tejas Mk 2 (IN)
The IN has expressed the view that Tejas Mk 1 is too heavy for shipboard operations. Loosely translated, I suspect this means that the approach speed is too high, as the aircraft is much lighter than many naval aircraft. Of course, a high approach speed is a significant issue as reducing the approach speed generally calls for an aerodynamic redesign. As an example, compare the T-45 Goshawk with a Hawk T1. The T1 is unable to meet mandatory approach speed requirements for the US Navy, and a slatted wing design had to be introduced for the Goshawk.
In the case of Tejas, while the AF is pursuing a Mk 2 solution using canards, the Navy is examining an option with an aft tail fitted, presumably to trim out the aircraft with high lift devices for the wing. This takes the Navy Mk 2 off onto a completely different development path to that of the AF aircraft, and will require the development of yet another set of control laws.
It is not clear which of the other AF modifications would carry across to the Navy aircraft.
Tejas Mk1A
Given the changes in design being considered for both the AF and IN Mk 2 aircraft, the Indian MoD has decided to procure an interim aircraft, the Tejas Mk 1A, which will go some way towards remediating the deficiencies of the Mk 1, without the additional complexities introduced by some of the features of the Tejas Mk 2.
The changes envisaged are:
—Introduction of the Elta/HAL EL/M-2052 AESA radar
— Carriage of Elta EL L-8222 ECM pod
— Weight, drag and RCS reduction programmes aimed at reducing weight by some hundreds of kg, drag by 6%, and RCS through the use of coatings and RAM
— Reduction in maintenance requirements.
At this point, I would just observe that some of these aspirations are easier said than done, particularly when there is an intention to simultaneously reduce weight by 10 to 15%. The first flight of the Mk 1A is apparently expected in 2022.
Has the Tejas programme achieved its objectives?

I suspect that even in India, one could get different answers to this question, depending on whether you were talking to the Air Force, the Navy, the ADA, Industry, the DRDO or the MoD.
The service perception will, of course, be coloured by operational needs, and it is clear from the discussion above that neither the AF nor the IN regard Tejas Mk 1 as the fully developed solution to their needs. Indeed, both services are looking to rather different directions as they identify what a Tejas Mk 2 should be. The trends in aerospace design and capability over the development of the aircraft have tended to take operational requirements away from the simple MiG-21 replacement that was perhaps envisaged in 1983, and both services are looking to a more flexible and multi-role aircraft, better protected and with better sensors and weapons than were available at programme initiation. Inevitably this is likely to be delivered in a larger package, leading to the perception that what is needed is less of a Light Combat Aircraft, and more of a Medium Weight Fighter.
ADA, Industry and the DRDO have delivered some of the capability they planned at the start of the programme. Yes, the engine and radar are off-the-shelf products, but the aircraft is in service, and is reported to be delivering good handling qualities. The performance is, perhaps, a little disappointing in some respects. Compared to the MiG-21, Tejas probably under-delivers in supersonic performance, but should be more agile, and has demonstrated the ability to launch BVR-capable weapons. From a technology perspective the Tejas Mk 2 programme offers more opportunities for innovation – but also some more integration challenges.
tejas-mk2.jpg

From an MoD perspective, should they just have gone out and procured the Gripen E/F? From a pure cost and Defence capability perspective, it is tempting to say ‘yes’. But to do so would be likely to close off the development of the industrial capability with which India hopes to develop its own ‘next generation’ fighter aircraft. Is this a realistic aspiration? Well, it may or may not be, but without attempting something like the Tejas programme, a leap to the ‘next generation’ would certainly be unrealistic.
There are some warning signs. Everything has taken far too long. There is no propulsion system design capability for the advanced engines that are likely to be required by future combat aircraft, and the radar development programme appears to have struggled. But progress has been made in systems and systems integration, and in structural and aerodynamic design, and there is already a strong weapons capability in place.
Having moved from the UK to Australia, it is clear that there is a vast difference in capability between an Industry that is capable of assembling other people’s designs, and an Industry that can deliver its own designs to meet local requirements and conditions, without being dependent on third parties for support.
Australia crossed that capability gap in one direction a long time ago. India is trying to progress in the opposite direction. Tejas Mk 1 is a step down the path, and the development of Tejas Mk 2, if successful, will be a significant further step.”
Jim Smith, had significant technical roles in the development of many of the UK’s leading military aviation programmes from ASRAAM and Nimrod, to the JSF and Eurofighter Typhoon. He was also Britain’s technical liaison to the British Embassy in Washington, covering several projects including the Advanced Tactical Fighter contest. His latest book is available here.

What is going on with the Indian Tejas?
 
I think he narrowed down his view w.r.t two specific points - the costs of running 2-3 programs simultaneously and our immediate environment where in China will definitely produce better iterations of their 5th Gen FA obviously leading Pakistan to acquire it. We can expect this to happen between 2025-35 timeline. What's our response to it going to be like? There's the third not so minor issue of ADA / HAL / DRDO not adhering to set deadlines. Hence the relevance of the article.

Let me state I'm not in agreement with the views put forward in the article though he makes pertinent points. I see the AMCA programme contingent on the success of the MWF / NLCA - Mk2 & the LO AURA. It's only since MP came up with a via media of Mk1a that we've seen IAF take ownership of the project & a semblance of Project Management happening which in turn should've occured 10-15 years ago. Hence the sequence of Mk1-->Mk1a --> MWF / AURA -->AMCA in successive & progressive iterations needs to be maintained.

Now comes the million dollar question of time & fund / manpower resource allocation. It's only when we see this happen that we can hold ADA responsible and accountable for the quality & timelines.

As regards combatting 5th gen FA on our vicinity, I share your view that the definitive version of the Su-57 should be around 2026-28 timeline. Whether we go for outright import of 1-2 squadrons followed by assembly / manufacturing of 3-4 such squadrons in house a la MKI in a graduated manner or import 5-6 squadrons over 10-15 years is a call which can be taken as & when the Su-57 demonstrates it's potency.

Should it fail our expectations there's ways the next iterations of the Rafales which may make it a pseudo 5th Gen FA Or a hybrid version of it. In. My opinion for whatever it's worth, this should be enough to tackle the first 2 iterations of the Chinese 5th Gen FA. Any other iteration would have to be dealt with by the AMCA. This again is a bit problematic as I'd see the first iterations of the AMCA on par with the first iterations of the Chinese 5th Gen FA unless we go in for a strategic partner .


Hence the timelines of 2030 onwards is very crucial should we not have an indigenous 5th Gen FA & the Su57 fails to materialise. I don't see the F-35 as an option now that we've signed the S-400 deal and possibly eye the S-500 too.Nothing else seems to be on the horizon. Coming back to future iterations of the Rafale, this remains contingent on how soon we go ahead with freezing Rafales as our MMRCA & commencing production out here ASAP.

There's also talk of a single engine NLCA-Mk2. I wonder what's that all about. Further, I personally like you see the development of a N AMCA take precedence over the IAF AMCA. Then there's the Ghatak & AURA programmes too without which AMCA wouldn't progress much.How will the ADA juggle all these projects simultaneously is beyond me?

What's there to juggle? MWF development will be complete before AMCA goes into flight testing. Ghatak will be developed by ADE, a different laboratory. So all ADA will have until mid-2030s is AMCA.

And no, I wouldn't support N-AMCA's development before IAF's. Rather both should happen simultaneously. Not to mention, IAF's version is more or less complete, so it makes no sense to push that aside. Once the construction of AF-TDs start, they should work on the design of the N-AMCA.

Btw, AMCA will be a massive step up compared to the F-22, so I wouldn't be happy saying it's no different from China's so-called 5th gen jets. And we don't need strategic partners. We didn't need them earlier, we don't need them now. But we most definitely do need help with engines, and I hope the deal with Safran will take care of that. For everything else, no help is required.

Anyway, the article has no relevance to reality. It's just some weird thing. All it says is IAF should sit on their as*es until the mid-30s. Even though the Chinese have multiple 5th gen programs, they are still inducting their 4th gen designs, which they will continue to do until the end of the decade. Whereas we still need to arrest our squadron draw down.
 
What's there to juggle? MWF development will be complete before AMCA goes into flight testing. Ghatak will be developed by ADE, a different laboratory. So all ADA will have until mid-2030s is AMCA.

And no, I wouldn't support N-AMCA's development before IAF's. Rather both should happen simultaneously. Not to mention, IAF's version is more or less complete, so it makes no sense to push that aside. Once the construction of AF-TDs start, they should work on the design of the N-AMCA.

Btw, AMCA will be a massive step up compared to the F-22, so I wouldn't be happy saying it's no different from China's so-called 5th gen jets. And we don't need strategic partners. We didn't need them earlier, we don't need them now. But we most definitely do need help with engines, and I hope the deal with Safran will take care of that. For everything else, no help is required.

Anyway, the article has no relevance to reality. It's just some weird thing. All it says is IAF should sit on their as*es until the mid-30s. Even though the Chinese have multiple 5th gen programs, they are still inducting their 4th gen designs, which they will continue to do until the end of the decade. Whereas we still need to arrest our squadron draw down.
Wasn't the first TD of AMCA due to fly in 2025-26 , just 2-3 years after the first flight of the MWF?

It's because AMCA is a massive step up above the Tejas programme that it's worrying.More so since both programmes lack strategic partners. It took us nearly 3 decades to master the Flight Control Laws, develop an AESA radar ( still under development) , a low bypass VC turbofan ( status unknown) , etc that's cause to expect a compromised variant of an AMCA in the first TD where in , it's hoped, subsequent iterations will see upgrades to achieve full 5th gen stealth capabilities.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Deathstar
Wasn't the first TD of AMCA due to fly in 2025-26 , just 2-3 years after the first flight of the MWF?

First TD was expected to fly in 2023 for AMCA, the same time as MWF.

But MWF's first flight will be a near-production ready prototype, while AMCA will only be a TD. By the time flight testing of AMCA actually begins in earnest with a definitive engine, MWF will be completed.

It's because AMCA is a massive step up above the Tejas programme that it's worrying.More so since both programmes lack strategic partners. It took us nearly 3 decades to master the Flight Control Laws, develop an AESA radar ( still under development) , a low bypass VC turbofan ( status unknown) , etc that's cause to expect a compromised variant of an AMCA in the first TD where in , it's hoped, subsequent iterations will see upgrades to achieve full 5th gen stealth capabilities.

Strategic partners are useless. We have to do everything on our own. This so-called help is just some basic consultancy that can help us cut short flight testing. In reality, the Indian designers will be given a few options, and it's up to them whether to make use of those options, that's how it works.

If we are missing something, we can directly import stuff for the duration of flight testing. Like how we used a Russian seeker on Astra until we completed development of our own seeker. The same with Nirbhay's engine.

And no, AMCA's stealth won't be compromised in any way. If that were the case, we wouldn't even start the program. All the foreign help we will have for AMCA when it comes to airframe and avionics is in the form of consultancy.

Even the foreign stuff on LCA are largely outright imports, not actual assistance in R&D. Who is stupid enough to create competitors?
 
First TD was expected to fly in 2023 for AMCA, the same time as MWF.

But MWF's first flight will be a near-production ready prototype, while AMCA will only be a TD. By the time flight testing of AMCA actually begins in earnest with a definitive engine, MWF will be completed.
Well, now aren't we being optimistic? From first flight to FOC in 5-6 years ?! Granted the ADA has nearly 3 decades worth of experience in the Tejas programme and would have internalised it all, but 5-6 years from first flight to SP is a bit of a stretch. That's what Yusuf was pointing out apart from a paucity of funds, technological over reach, massive advancements in the PLAAF in a short period of time and our rapidly depleting squadron strength.
 
Well, now aren't we being optimistic? From first flight to FOC in 5-6 years ?! Granted the ADA has nearly 3 decades worth of experience in the Tejas programme and would have internalised it all, but 5-6 years from first flight to SP is a bit of a stretch. That's what Yusuf was pointing out apart from a paucity of funds, technological over reach, massive advancements in the PLAAF in a short period of time and our rapidly depleting squadron strength.

MWF is quite simply an LCA Mk1 with 2 plugs attached on either side of the cockpit and a slightly modified wing with canards.

word-image-2.jpeg


This "paucity of funds" is a fiction of imagination. Especially when the MWF has already been funded. The choice is between MWF and importing Gripen E.
 
  • Like
  • Agree
Reactions: ni8mare and Sathya
Mk1 in production 45% done rest in 3 years..

MK1A to be signed and begin production in 3 years..

MWF prototype design finalized and metal cutting started, new production tools tender announced.

AMCA wind tunnel testing done, design finalized?
 
LCA Tejas to level up with on-board oxygen system by early 2020, says DRDO

Published September 20, 2019 | By admin SOURCE: ENS



India’s Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) Tejas will be graduating to the next level with the installation of the On-board Oxygen (OBOX) generating system by December or early 2020, said a scientist from Defence Electromedical & Bio-Engineering Laboratory (DEBEL), under the Defence Research & Development Organisation (DRDO). Almost a year after a successful mid-air fuelling of the Tejas, the LCA Mark-1 (Mk-1) of the Indian Air Force, which enables aircrafts to be airborne for longer durations, DEBEL researchers have developed the onboard oxygen generating system, OBOX, to help keep the pilot fit and alert for an equally long duration with continuous supply of oxygen while on high altitude, long-distance flights. “As of now, a fighter pilot is airborne with a bottle of oxygen, a cylinder that comes with the aircraft, which has the capacity to last an hour at the most, before coming back to base to get it replenished. However, with the OBOX, oxygen will be available throughout, as long as the engine is running,” he said. The LCA Tejas is an indigenous lightweight, multi-role supersonic aircraft, developed in both fighter and trainer versions. The IAF had initially ordered 40 LCA Tejas aircrafts with the Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL), which is manufacturing the aircraft after the Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA) completed its design and development phase. However, in 2018, the IAF placed a further order of 83 LCA Tejas aircraft at a cost of about Rs 50,000 crore. Tejas has been built using advanced composites with an eye on reducing its weight while enhancing the life of the components. The lightweight fighter — designed to carry air-to-air, air-to-surface, precision-guided and standoff weaponry — successfully completed arrested landing on its naval variant in Goa and is finally expected to be assigned for operations on India’s aircraft carrier Vikramaditya. How the self-replenishing system works The box will suck the bleed air which is being thrown out of the engine along with the exhaust, and then processes it through sieves. Nitrogen is separated through this ‘absorption process’ and pure oxygen is generated. “We have successfully completed lab trials. Now it is to have flight trials. Which is expected by the end of this year or by 2020. After that, this will be fitted on the Tejas,” he said. The OBOX will flash warning lights and beeps when it detects lesser oxygen than demanded. An onboard electronic control unit on it will monitor the generation and percentage of oxygen. The 14.5 kg OBOX has been designed for the Tejas and will be later used with small modification on Sukhoys and LCA Tejas to level up with on-board oxygen system by early 2020, says DRDO Published September 20, 2019 | By admin SOURCE: ENS India’s Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) Tejas will be graduating to the next level with the installation of the On-board Oxygen (OBOX) generating system by December or early 2020, said a scientist from Defence Electromedical & Bio-Engineering Laboratory (DEBEL), under the Defence Research & Development Organisation (DRDO). Almost a year after a successful mid-air fuelling of the Tejas, the LCA Mark-1 (Mk-1) of the Indian Air Force, which enables aircrafts to be airborne for longer durations, DEBEL researchers have developed the onboard oxygen generating system, OBOX, to help keep the pilot fit and alert for an equally long duration with continuous supply of oxygen while on high altitude, long-distance flights. “As of now, a fighter pilot is airborne with a bottle of oxygen, a cylinder that comes with the aircraft, which has the capacity to last an hour at the most, before coming back to base to get it replenished. However, with the OBOX, oxygen will be available throughout, as long as the engine is running,” he said. The LCA Tejas is an indigenous lightweight, multi-role supersonic aircraft, developed in both fighter and trainer versions. The IAF had initially ordered 40 LCA Tejas aircrafts with the Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL), which is manufacturing the aircraft after the Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA) completed its design and development phase. However, in 2018, the IAF placed a further order of 83 LCA Tejas aircraft at a cost of about Rs 50,000 crore. Tejas has been built using advanced composites with an eye on reducing its weight while enhancing the life of the components. The lightweight fighter — designed to carry air-to-air, air-to-surface, precision-guided and standoff weaponry — successfully completed arrested landing on its naval variant in Goa and is finally expected to be assigned for operations on India’s aircraft carrier Vikramaditya. How the self-replenishing system works The box will suck the bleed air which is being thrown out of the engine along with the exhaust, and then processes it through sieves. Nitrogen is separated through this ‘absorption process’ and pure oxygen is generated. “We have successfully completed lab trials. Now it is to have flight trials. Which is expected by the end of this year or by 2020. After that, this will be fitted on the Tejas,” he said. The OBOX will flash warning lights and beeps when it detects lesser oxygen than demanded. An onboard electronic control unit on it will monitor the generation and percentage of oxygen. The 14.5 kg OBOX has been designed for the Tejas and will be later used with small modification on Sukhoys and Hawks.
LCA Tejas to level up with on-board oxygen system by early 2020, says DRDO – Indian Defence Research Wing ..

LCA Tejas to level up with on-board oxygen system by early 2020, says DRDO – Indian Defence Research Wing .
 
MWF is quite simply an LCA Mk1 with 2 plugs attached on either side of the cockpit and a slightly modified wing with canards.

View attachment 10151

This "paucity of funds" is a fiction of imagination. Especially when the MWF has already been funded. The choice is between MWF and importing Gripen E.
Let's examine the highlighted part of your statement. Let me draw your attention to the Mk1. The first FA was inducted in 2015-16. Subsequently on the then Defense Minister's intervention a via media called Mk1a was approved of in 2016-17. The FOC for Mk1 was received in 2018-19. We should be having the first Mk1a in 2019-20 , since going by your logic, the Mk1a just has a few more sub systems and is basically an Mk1 otherwise. Yet the first such FA is due to fly in 2022-23 . A years delay is still par for the course given the way HAL & MoD operates. That's a full 3 years following the FOC of the Mk1 & a full 6 years following the clearance given to the MK1a by the MoD .
 
Let's examine the highlighted part of your statement. Let me draw your attention to the Mk1. The first FA was inducted in 2015-16. Subsequently on the then Defense Minister's intervention a via media called Mk1a was approved of in 2016-17. The FOC for Mk1 was received in 2018-19. We should be having the first Mk1a in 2019-20 , since going by your logic, the Mk1a just has a few more sub systems and is basically an Mk1 otherwise. Yet the first such FA is due to fly in 2022-23 . A years delay is still par for the course given the way HAL & MoD operates. That's a full 3 years following the FOC of the Mk1 & a full 6 years following the clearance given to the MK1a by the MoD .

You are looking at it all wrong though.

If you are comparing dates, then Mk2 development started a bit before Mk1A. And then, it takes 2 to 3 years to build a jet anyway. Mk1A can have flight testing and production run simultaneously, while Mk2 cannot. That's why Mk2 has its production run 5 years after Mk1A's production run.

What I'm saying is Mk1A's production run for 73 jets will begin in a few months, whereas Mk2's production run will begin 6 or 7 years later. In the meantime, they will build 4 prototypes and flight test it.
 
You are looking at it all wrong though.
Am I, now ?

If you are comparing dates, then Mk2 development started a bit before Mk1A.
When exactly? If I'm not mistaken, thr design was frozen this year. Are yuu suggesting the design phase began before 2016 ? That's 3+ full years to come up with an iteration!

And then, it takes 2 to 3 years to build a jet anyway.
Agreed.

Mk1A can have flight testing and production run simultaneously, while Mk2 cannot.
This must be a first. Have flight testing while production is on without prior validation of the sub systems on a FA . Then again Production Engineering was just a subject in ME curricula.I didn't graduate in it. You seem to be the expert here.

That's why Mk2 has its production run 5 years after Mk1A's production run.


What I'm saying is Mk1A's production run for 73 jets will begin in a few months, whereas Mk2's production run will begin 6 or 7 years later.

In the meantime, they will build 4 prototypes and flight test it.
So, in effect, what you're trying to convey is the FOC from the TD thru to the prototype & LSP will be obtained in 5 years from the first flight of the TD which is scheduled as of now in 2023-24 give or take a year. All this when according you you the design phase began in 2016 or most likely earlier . That's a full 7-8 years to get a TD in the air. Pun unintended. All this for what's essentially an iteration.

Hell, Why not! After all, as per you, it's just an elongated fuselage with two plugs on either ends and canards.

Allow me to introduce you to AVM Manmohan Bahadur. Here's what he has to say :-

Obscured by headlines such as Rajnath Singh flying the Tejas, defence research is in terrible shape

Excerpts from the article -


"The Tejas Mk2 would be a totally new aircraft with a more powerful GE-414 engine requiring significant changes to its design – and when the engine and fuselage change, it calls for extensive flight testing. Its production in six years, with it presently being on the drawing board, is stuff for the movies."

But what the hell does he know?!?

Perhaps you ought to go through the entire exchange @Milspec

Our friend is doing what he does best. Still Flying kites even when the kite is missing at the other end of the string holding it aloft.
 
Am I, now ?


When exactly? If I'm not mistaken, thr design was frozen this year. Are yuu suggesting the design phase began before 2016 ? That's 3+ full years to come up with an iteration!


Agreed.


This must be a first. Have flight testing while production is on without prior validation of the sub systems on a FA . Then again Production Engineering was just a subject in ME curricula.I didn't graduate in it. You seem to be the expert here.

There is no need to extensively flight test the Mk1A for aerodynamics since it's already achieved FOC through Mk1. All they are doing is reducing weight, decreasing drag and so on. Basically improvements on an already FOC'd jet.

So, in effect, what you're trying to convey is the FOC from the TD thru to the prototype & LSP will be obtained in 5 years from the first flight of the TD which is scheduled as of now in 2023-24 give or take a year. All this when according you you the design phase began in 2016 or most likely earlier . That's a full 7-8 years to get a TD in the air. Pun unintended. All this for what's essentially an iteration.

Hell, Why not! After all, as per you, it's just an elongated fuselage with two plugs on either ends and canards.

Allow me to introduce you to AVM Manmohan Bahadur. Here's what he has to say :-

Obscured by headlines such as Rajnath Singh flying the Tejas, defence research is in terrible shape

Excerpts from the article -


"The Tejas Mk2 would be a totally new aircraft with a more powerful GE-414 engine requiring significant changes to its design – and when the engine and fuselage change, it calls for extensive flight testing. Its production in six years, with it presently being on the drawing board, is stuff for the movies."

But what the hell does he know?!?

Perhaps you ought to go through the entire exchange @Milspec

Our friend is doing what he does best. Still Flying kites even when the kite is missing at the other end of the string holding it aloft.

Mk2's gonna enter flight testing in 2023 and will see IOC in 2025. That's their plan. So production will begin only after IOC. I also do not agree with that date, so I constantly say IOC in 2027 is more realistic, with squadron induction in 2030. You yourself have read that many times.

And yes, it's considered a new aircraft from the PoV of capability, but not in terms of engineering. Not as much as a whole new aircraft. That's why its flight testing is only 3 or 4 years compared to a full 9 years for AMCA.