Line of Actual Control (LAC) : India & Tibet Border Updates

Saaho said:
No clear picture.
What scanty details emerging says most deaths are due to people falling off a ridge or ridge collapsing.
It could be anything. Only confirmed news is 20 deaths on Indian side. Rest is all rumor.
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Bro it's very tough to walk on hills in nights. If there is no moon and cloudy weather then it becomes more tough as its pitch dark. In that situation what happens, who hits whom remains a misery. Even soldiers there wouldn't know how many got hit and got killed on their side, night vision goggles would be of no use in that scuffle. No idea if illumination rounds were fired. So what actually happened even the base would had only realized after inspection.
 
screambowl said:
Bro it's very tough to walk on hills in nights. If there is no moon and cloudy weather then it becomes more tough as its pitch dark. In that situation what happens, who hits whom remains a misery. Even soldiers there wouldn't know how many got hit and got killed on their side, night vision goggles would be of no use in that scuffle. No idea if illumination rounds were fired. So what actually happened even the base would had only realized after inspection.
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It was a small cresent of moon yesterday. Explains. June 21st is new moon night.
STEPHEN COHEN said:
Any Bureaucrat who now stalls any necessary item will be Kicked
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In India a babu cann't be removed. UPSC appoints are impossible to remove.
 
STEPHEN COHEN said:
Army HQ must be working on a strategy

Everything does not happen in One Day

There are two aspects here

1 What is the situation regarding.the
Intrusion and the Various Levels of discussions and talks that have happened

2 Has the intrusion become more complicated or will the Chinese
Now retreat Quietly

3 This Act yesterday has to be avenged

But the larger question is where , when and how

Where do we attack them , because by now they must be anticipating an attack
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IA have the history of responding in equal or in a more brutal way in a far worse situation (beheadings/Uri) than this with an well trained enemy anticipating an attack . I don't see any shortage of options for IA to respond expect modi not giving green signal .
 
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The sad thing is that the PM, forget coming out to address the nation, hasn't even acknowledged it yet.

And the 2nd sad thing is we are going to just talk and do nothing. 21/22 june we have FM level of meeting with Russia/China. We should cancel our participation immediately.

We should immediately put a blanket ban on anything Chinese where any type of domestic option exists.

Put a blanket ban on Chinese origin multi national companies.

But we are most likely just to talk on our TVs.
 
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DivineHeretic said:
There is no reason to believe the figures of Chinese casualties posted here and on social media. At best that number reflects troops with all forms of injuries requiring first aid. Let that sink in.

The Indian groups on both occasions were categorically outnumbered and outmaneuvered. In the first engagement the Chinese had the advantage of numbers, position, surprise and equipment. The Indian party tried to retaliate once they saw the CO collapse but were poorly coordinated and well severely outclassed. The Chinese were also on the hill slope overseeing them, making this a very uneven fight

The next Indian group under the Major came better prepared in terms of equipment, but their actions mounted to little more than a slow moving tragedy without firearms. They had to attack on the up against larger numbers under heavy stone pelting. To their credit they managed to bring a few down right at the beginning of the second clash but there was really no contest. So take those claims of xx numbers of Chinese wounded with a truckload of Himalayan salt.
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Pakistanis are a better enemy to fight with than these PLA cowards. We have been fighting Pakistan for 70 years , never heard of them pretending to go back only to attack us from the back . Really proud of our army who fought bravely despite being outnumbered and outmaneuvered .
 
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Irrespective of how many blows we have given to the Chinese, I don't see how any self respecting country can not be in the state of war with China after they 'unilaterally tried to change status quo'.

The statement released by MEA is enough for us to declare war on China. I have no idea why we are still holding talks and crap with the country that just deceived us into losing 20 Soldiers.

I also wonder, whose fault this is, whether our army is consciously trying not to go to a full war or our government is keeping the armed forces in a tight leash.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1273109057189134337
 
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Defc0n said:
Irrespective of how many blows we have given to the Chinese, I don't see how any self respecting country can not be in the state of war with China after they 'unilaterally tried to change status quo'.

The statement released by MEA is enough for us to declare war on China. I have no idea why we are still holding talks and crap with the country that just deceived us into losing 20 Soldiers.

I also wonder, whose fault this is, whether our army is consciously trying not to go to a full war or our government is keeping the armed forces in a tight leash.
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The more and more I look at it, the more it feels like a dabbawala decision.

Either south block is doing some god-level diplomacy with devil knows who or they are waiting for this to blow off.

PM is just monitor Dabba Walla are CPU and OS.
 
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GASOLINE_ON_FIRE said:
That could be logically answered: our infrastructure doesn't support large scale mobilization. Even though the ball is in GOI's court, the move to further escalate should be taken while keeping clear final goals in mind. Think pragmatically. Some tough questions:
>Is our infrastructure built to the fullest extent? NO
>If we go to war with whatever infrastructure we currently have, will we win? Can be answered only by the planners. But pr(LOSS)>pr(WIN).
>With the rapid buildup in infrastructure on our side, will we be in a significantly better position in 2 to 3 years from now? Absolutely YES.
>Will you want to go to war now with inadequate supply routes and weak infrastructure? or will you go tor war some years later from now when our infrastructure will be significantly stronger? I would choose the latter as that offers better chance of winning. But thats just my opinion and I am not privy to all the facts.
>If we go to war right now and loose more territory due to inadequate supply lines and infrastructure, what will we do then?

Some points that posters here need to understand:
>China is testing our resolve because they know the reality of our weakness in supporting large troop buildup.
>As time goes on and India improves its border infrastructure, the window of handing a conclusive military defeat to India is closing fast. Such desperation to turn to violence seems to stem from this growing realization.
>Any war in which you are forced into, you are already at a disadvantage.
>The way China keeps pressuring and needling us, we can turn the tables and start to pressure them once our infrastructure is developed to the fullest. Start minor incursions into tibet from all sides starting somewhere in 2023 and increase the tempo as years go by. Start land grabbing only when the infrastructure buildup is complete. Create tensions in undisputed areas too if you want.
>Resolve all the bickering in the domestic industry and induct LCH and LUH in large numbers. Improve and upgrade all the T72s, BMPs and deploy them all along the border with China. All the while induct more artillery and start to acclimatize troops in hundreds of thousands.
>Topple the communists in Nepal, bring in a more friendly administration.

Sure, on the other hand an opportunity like this, where the entire world is against China and China is the aggressor in a conflict, come rarely. But, depending on external support to win a war with them is not a wise way to think.
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If infra is issue for large scale offensive then lets provoke the Chinese the same way they did to us , ambush and kill many PLA solders in a place and time of our choosing and release a video like how we did few weeks backs with a captive PLA solider . With this provocation we achieve two things

1) A message to the cowards in PLA that we will pay you back in the same coin and we are ready if a war is forced upon.
2) Exposing PLA to the world which might force the Chinese to respond , considering the importance they give to infowar and image makeover .

With the above done all we have to do is to hold on to a Chinese attack which ii am sure our current infra definitely supports . But yes , we can discuss all such option to death in a forum but in the end it all boils down to the most important thing of Modi giving green signal to do something .
 
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Another sad day.

Indian death toll expected to be sharply revised upwards.

Details are known but awaiting an official statement - tweeted by Manu Pubby
 
STEPHEN COHEN said:
Our Aim is Chinese withdrawl

If China withdraws now , they accept defeat and their 43 casualties

But if they dont , Will the fire the first shot

Are they confident of a shoooting war

If they were confident , why this stupid ambush on our patrol

This active LAC will hurt them a lot

We have the.manpower and shorter supply lines
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There are no 43 Chinese casualties. Many may be injured. This attitude is childish at best. Even one Indian soldier is gold for me.
 
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GASOLINE_ON_FIRE said:
That could be logically answered: our infrastructure doesn't support large scale mobilization. Even though the ball is in GOI's court, the move to further escalate should be taken while keeping clear final goals in mind. Think pragmatically. Some tough questions:
>Is our infrastructure built to the fullest extent? NO
>If we go to war with whatever infrastructure we currently have, will we win? Can be answered only by the planners. But pr(LOSS)>pr(WIN).
>With the rapid buildup in infrastructure on our side, will we be in a significantly better position in 2 to 3 years from now? Absolutely YES.
>Will you want to go to war now with inadequate supply routes and weak infrastructure? or will you go tor war some years later from now when our infrastructure will be significantly stronger? I would choose the latter as that offers better chance of winning. But thats just my opinion and I am not privy to all the facts.
>If we go to war right now and loose more territory due to inadequate supply lines and infrastructure, what will we do then?

Some points that posters here need to understand:
>China is testing our resolve because they know the reality of our weakness in supporting large troop buildup.
>As time goes on and India improves its border infrastructure, the window of handing a conclusive military defeat to India is closing fast. Such desperation to turn to violence seems to stem from this growing realization.
>Any war in which you are forced into, you are already at a disadvantage.
>The way China keeps pressuring and needling us, we can turn the tables and start to pressure them once our infrastructure is developed to the fullest. Start minor incursions into tibet from all sides starting somewhere in 2023 and increase the tempo as years go by. Start land grabbing only when the infrastructure buildup is complete. Create tensions in undisputed areas too if you want.
>Resolve all the bickering in the domestic industry and induct LCH and LUH in large numbers. Improve and upgrade all the T72s, BMPs and deploy them all along the border with China. All the while induct more artillery and start to acclimatize troops in hundreds of thousands.
>Topple the communists in Nepal, bring in a more friendly administration.

Sure, on the other hand an opportunity like this, where the entire world is against China and China is the aggressor in a conflict, come rarely. But, depending on external support to win a war with them is not a wise way to think.
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Even China's infrastructure is not top notch, and many roads branching out from G219 are kacha or washed out at points, Even they face mobilization issues due to ultra long supply lines at 5.5 km altitude.. Its a good day to fight if India has the will.

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Chinese roads and infrastructure in Aksai Chin – a Google Earth study

In the Indian media and on social sites of the Internet there exist certain views about Chinese infrastructure and roads bordering India, some of which would be alarming to any Indian. These impressions about Chinese preparations on India's borders get repeated every time there is a new crisis...
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