Line of Actual Control (LAC) : India & Tibet Border Updates

noksss said:
So Bullets and artillery can't kill these superman PLA soldiers , I wonder what else will kill them maybe some advanced weapons from martians :unsure: I wonder even that can give confidence to the defeatist mentality many have here . No wonder Pakistan/China were able to do and currently doing what they did for the past 70 years
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Its not a question of weapons as much. Its the question of orders. Those who give the orders have *censored*ed up. No weapon will help.
 
Saaho said:
Its not a question of weapons as much. Its the question of orders. Those who give the orders have *censored*ed up. No weapon will help.
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Agreed dude !! I am as frustrated as you are but still somewhere i have a little bit confidence because there was action in the past whenever he said "The killers will not go unpunished "
 
noksss said:
Agreed dude !! I am as frustrated as you are but still somewhere i have a little bit confidence because there was action in the past whenever he said "The killers will not go unpunished "
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Well, my crystal ball is only as clear as anyone else. What can I say... I though don't like the kind of Mandarin coming out of South Block and MEA.
 
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_Anonymous_ said:
Ammo is kept at their base camp under lock & key of the CO. They carry their rifles minus magazines. Both Indian & Chinese soldiers follow the same protocol.
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What is the point in carrying weapons without magazines. As well carry some prehistoric clubs and slings. Shouldn't the govt rethink on this, like i said earlier, rifles will ensures nobody comes within a kilometer of the soldiers position.
 
Ashwin said:
China’s People’s Liberation Army meticulously planned attack in Galwan, says senior government official

The Chinese People’s Liberation Army (PLA) meticulously planned the attack on Indian troops in eastern Ladakh’s Galwan for at least two days, a senior government official said.

The Chinese blocked small rivulets in heightened areas, releasing water at high speed when Indian Army personnel appeared at the disputed site in Galwan area on June 15. “The strong gush of water made the men lose balance. The Chinese charged, pushed the Army personnel and many fell into the Galwan river,” the official said.

The Chinese did a reconnaissance by flying unmanned aerial vehicles (UAV) to see the strength of the Indian troops and accordingly bolstered their presence on the other side of the Line of Actual Control (LAC), the official stated.

The Hindu reported on Wednesday that the clash took place after Colonel Santosh Babu, who was commanding the unit, dismantled a tent erected by the Chinese and later set it on fire. During the June 6 military level talks, the two sides decided to remove the tent. It has now emerged that the tent was destroyed two days before the June 15 clash. When Indian troopers were patrolling the contested site, the Chinese threw boulders on them and unleashed strong current of water by unblocking the rivulets.

The Chinese were wearing body protecters, helmets and carried spiked batons, the official noted.

The Ministry of External Affairs (MEA) had issued a statement that the “Chinese side took premeditated and planned action that was directly responsible for the resulting violence and casualties.”

The official said, “The patrolling team walked into an ambush. The area had witnessed clashes on May 5 and the attack took place despite a high alert. The men were outnumbered by the Chinese. No gunshot was fired”.

As reported, some men “died on the spot” and the exercise to locate the missing bodies continued till late hours of June 16. As many as 20 Army personnel were killed and several injured.

The Indo-Tibetan Border Police (ITBP), deployed with the Army along the LAC, helped move the injured to the base camp the next day. An ITBP rescue team trekked 3-4 km the next day to evacuate the injured.

At least 20 helicopter sorties from the base camp in Galwan were undertaken to evacuate the injured and retrieve the bodies.

The clash, a first of its kind in the last 45 years, came amidst a “de-escalation” process that was started last week after a month long stand-off between troops at several points along the LAC in Ladakh and Sikkim.
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Makes blood boil, if we let this go then there won't be any nation as impotent as ours. All that talk of freedom and cost will be useless, I will slap any BJP leader coming to my area whatever the consequences.

*censored*s have bought media so much that nobody is reporting reality, just fooling people.
 
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Defc0n said:
https://twitter.com/x/status/1273653172976775168

https://twitter.com/x/status/1273653510140121090


Chinese intrusions and India's limited options

In October last year a senior Indian security official on a visit to Ladakh met the General Officer Commanding (GOC) of the Indian Army’s 14 Corps. The Corps was raised in the aftermath of the Kargil war between India and Pakistan in 1999 and has its headquarters in Leh.

Today, 14 Corps under the India’s Northern Army Command is primarily tasked with maintaining the sanctity of the Line of Actual Control that divides Aksai Chin between India and China.


Aksai Chin went under Chinese occupation after 1962 war that dealt India a crushing blow and forced it to vacate large tracts of land and allowing the Chinese to hook up with its all-weather ally Pakistan through the illegally ceded territory of Shaksgam Valley in Pakistan Occupied Kashmir (PoK).

The Indian security official gave a detailed briefing to the Lieutenant General Harinder Singh, a former Director General of Military Intelligence, who took over as the GOC of 14 Corps late last year.

The Indian security official explained that the change of the status of Jammu & Kashmir had irked the Chinese. In the coming months they would up the ante and try and capture more land and shift the LAC deeper into Indian-held territory.

Several Indian security officials have confirmed that there was adequate credible intelligence of China’s intentions to up the ante in the Ladakh sector. The heights of the Galwan Valley overlooks a key road that winds its way to Daulet Beg Oldie, a strategic outpost that serves as a key military base for India.

By November/December 2019 the world was waking up to news of a spread of a deadly virus in Wuhan, China and all talk about the Chinese preparation to take over the Galwan Valley in Ladakh was forgotten. As winter set in, Indian troops settled in for business as usual.

But the events that unfolded on the night of June 15 raises several key questions.

Why did India’s top political, strategic and military leadership fail to anticipate and counter Chinese intentions to challenge and occupy Indian claims in Ladakh? How should India now counter a clear and present danger on its northern borders?

Did the newly-appointed Chief of Defence Staff, General Bipin Rawat, mislead the government? How did the plethora of official agencies set up to study China fail to predict a clear change in its India policy?

Rising Hostilities

The brutal killing of Colonel Santosh Babu, the Commanding Officer of the 18th battalion of the Bihar Regiment and his men by the People’s Liberation Army (PLA) has now brought home the reality of Chinese intentions in Ladakh.

Reliable military and intelligence sources now say that the death toll of Indian soldiers is considerably higher and could be more than 40 soldiers. A Lieutenant Colonel and a Major are still missing and could be in Chinese captivity.

What is inexplicable is why Colonel Babu and his men went unarmed to remove a temporary Chinese structure that was being set up in a place known as Patrolling Point 14.

The standard procedure is to carry assault rifles slung at the back, pointing downwards, to signal peaceful intent, but to also serve as a deterrent to Chinese troops from taking any sudden hostile moves. Why was Colonel Babu and his men sent in unarmed to remove the Chinese infrastructure?

The Chinese plans that the Indian security official had briefed Lieutenant General Harinder Singh late last year continued to be implemented even as the world turned its attention to an emerging pandemic threat from China.

The Chinese build up was confirmed by other Indian intelligence agencies and reports were sent to Delhi. However, they were either missed or ignored allowing the Chinese to build up in the Galwan Valley through the winter.

The Chinese were upset with India’s position on rejecting its ambitious Belt Road Initiative (BRI) to connect global markets to China’s manufacturing industries. It led to a major stand-off between India and China in 2016 at the tri-junction with Bhutan, in the area known as Doklam.

In August last year when India abrogated Article 370, a constitutional provision that gave a special status to the state of Jammu and Kashmir, China responded with fury.

The Chinese claim large parts of Ladakh, eastern part of the erstwhile state of Jammu and Kashmir, and any change in status was bound to be viewed as a threat to China’s claims.

What is inexplicable is why did India fail to read tea leaves and China’s intentions to change status quo?

Crumbling Defences

The rising political rhetoric in the aftermath of the “surgical strikes” in 2016 to “avenge” the killing of 19 soldiers in Uri and the air strike on Balakot, Pakistan in February 2019, as a response to the death of 40 Indian policemen in Pulwama, has pushed India into a tight corner. While political rhetoric is good for winning elections, it is not smart strategy.

Soon after the Kargil war, the then Prime Minister Atal Behari Vajpayee government instituted a committee to look into lapses and reform India’s security apparatus. A Group of Ministers went through the recommendations of the Kargil Review Committee and set in motion an ambitious plan to reform India’s security apparatus.

A key recommendation was to appoint a lead agency for every border to ensure better coordination between different security agencies and accountability. For the Ladkah sector the Indo Tibetan Border Police (ITBP) was chosen as the lead agency.

It reports to the union Ministry of Home Affairs, which also commands the Intelligence Bureau and was the lead on abrogating Article 370 within months of Prime Minister Modi wining a historic landslide electoral victory in May 2019.

A 700 km border and Line of Actual Control that stretches from the Karakorum ranges to Himachal Pradesh is now manned jointly by the ITBP and the Indian Army. The local ITBP sector headquarters holds a meeting every month with representatives from the intelligence agencies, army, air force, customs and the state police to review any intelligence on China relevant to their sector.

So why did this elaborate Indian security apparatus miss China moving troops nearly two army Divisions (about 9000-12000 men) into the area to occupy the Galwan Valley heights?

Why did they miss China building a road up to a key strategic feature known as Finger 4 considered Indian territory? And how did they miss Chinese troops building semi-permanent bunkers in the Galwan Valley heights?

Compounding Failures

Every year the Ministry of Defence and Ministry of Home Affairs sit and jointly plan the patrolling schedule for the Ladakh sector. Decisions are taken on how many patrols will be sent by the army and ITBP separately and jointly. Each patrol carries GPS units to collect waypoints and record the areas that have been covered.

Clearly, this mechanism failed to anticipate China’s moves to consolidate its position in the Galwan Valley. India’s political and strategic leadership also failed to anticipate that the Chinese would violate bilateral agreements from 1993, 1996 and 2013 that specifically bars any change in status of the LAC by either side.

India’s military, starved of crucial funds for the last six years, has limited war fighting capabilities. At best, it is in a position to sustain a full-scale war for only 12 days after factoring in its current war wastage reserves. India will also have to keep in mind the possibility of a two-front war if Pakistan steps in, if things escalate quickly with China.

The failure to anticipate China’s intentions has already proved costly. However, years of bad planning and abysmal budgets, rapidly spreading Covid19 infections and a broken economy severely restricts India’s options.
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The article's obviously written by a civilian.
 
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Paro said:
We lost before the fight even started. What a bunch of losers we are lol
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That's what happens when you give babus, farting on their chairs, to "diplomatize" India's sovereignty.

Both our babus and PLA are on driving seat while never been around a conflict, and battle hardened IA is on backseat.

This is equivalent to midnight TV ads of sauna belt melting your years of fat away, while a functional gym becomes useless.

Too many congressi era IAS and IFS are forcing us to halt.
 
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Cole_phelps said:
This is equivalent to midnight TV ads of sauna belt melting your years of fat away, while a functional gym becomes useless.

Too many congressi era IAS and IFS are forcing us to halt.
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Its not congressi era, its UPSC selected. The current crop is as "good" as the one from Nehru's time, if not "better". The fundamental issue is lack of skin in the game.
 
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suryakiran said:
Our government, and let me tell this out loud...including Modi is incapable of taking the steps required to safeguard Indian interests in the strategic space. He is a good administrator. Nothing more. Do not expect any grand vision for India, besides talking about structural reforms in administration and bureaucracy.

Now yea, let the brick bats start for calling Modi incapable of taking action to forward our strategic requirements.
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In his defense it can be said he tried his best to think out of the box approach. PM Modi went against his own skin to improve relationship with Pakistan( during Nawaz Sharif time) and went out of his way to mollycoddle China and today both the ties are in tatters. Modi now needs to swallow the bitter pill of embarrassment and focus the next 4 years in expanding our industrial base, our export competitiveness, expand social welfare program and more importantly drop all divisive political agendas and unite the nation behind him. He is currently the tallest political leader in the country and should not undersell himself.
 
NDTV: Chinese Bring In Bulldozers, Disturb Flow Of Galwan River: Satellite Pics.
www.ndtv.com

Chinese Bring In Bulldozers, Disturb Flow Of Galwan River: Satellite Pics

High resolution satellite images procured by NDTV indicate Chinese efforts to block or disturb the flow of the Galwan river in Northeast Ladakh, less than a kilometer from the site of the deadly clash between Indian and Chinese soldiers on June 15 in which 20 Indian officers and men were killed.
www.ndtv.com www.ndtv.com

And China keeps shitting right in our back yard.

Another interesting article -

Moneycontrol.com: What are India’s military options against China?.
www.moneycontrol.com

What are India’s military options against China?

As India contemplates its options, which present significant challenges, China would be mistaken in thinking that those challenges will serve as an absolute self-deterrent for India
www.moneycontrol.com www.moneycontrol.com
 
Saaho said:
I have challenged entire business model of my current employer when I joined them, CEO was more than happy to entertain that thought.
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If so you are lucky very few ppl have progressive mindset. Most of them have a set working formulae and hang on to it.
Defc0n said:
Need to wait for the meeting tomorrow & the decision that is taken.
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why have meetings, all these scenarios must have been thought out long time back. We should already have a response for it. That is the hall mark of strategic planning. Conducting a meeting when war is going on shows how careless govt is.
 
Cole_phelps said:
That's what happens when you give babus, farting on their chairs, to "diplomatize" India's sovereignty.

Both our babus and PLA are on driving seat while never been around a conflict, and battle hardened IA is on backseat.

This is equivalent to midnight TV ads of sauna belt melting your years of fat away, while a functional gym becomes useless.

Too many congressi era IAS and IFS are forcing us to halt.
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If the PLA commander loses territory he will go to some gulag, if we lose territory nothing will happen to the babus. They will continue as it is. It simply does not affect them.
 
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