Line of Actual Control (LAC) : India & Tibet Border Updates
- Thread starter Shashank
- Start date
I doubt India is ever going to do so. It has never done it even with like of Nepal or B'desh.
The main focus area from PLA POV will be DBO as it is a trijunction and allows China to take over siachin, karakoram pass and link up with Pakistan. This will also secure one of the ingress points to Aksai Chin for China. But if India can defeat them there, we can even reclaim sakshgam Valley and cutoff CPEC.
Deescalation expected. Logical discussion to things up until now.
We've quietly completed the airlift of a T-90 armored regiment (Nato tank battalion) and support assets to Ladakh. That brings the total armored strength in Ladakh to 4 regiments. Additional BMP-2s have also been inducted into the area over the last week. Interesting to note is that all assets are being pulled from the Western front.
The ideal force posture consists of deploying 2 armored brigades, one each in North and South ladakh and supported by at least 2 mechanised battalions each. I wonder if we have decided to go for a full posture or if this is just another partial solution as in 1980s.
The ideal force posture consists of deploying 2 armored brigades, one each in North and South ladakh and supported by at least 2 mechanised battalions each. I wonder if we have decided to go for a full posture or if this is just another partial solution as in 1980s.
In my opinion involving UN in any of our border dispute is unwise. Its not that we haven't tried to have china to agree to demarcate on ground the LAC, however Chinese intransigence has prevented it from happening. Chinese will agree to demarcate the LAC only when they start fearing losing territory.....
Surprising to see we pulling resources from west especially at a stage when we expect Pakistanis to jump in between. T 90's were exercised in that area before, so i guess we have wargamed on scenarios. With apache joining the party, we are quite serious, and Chinese will know that we are a different country altogether to deal with.
Will be interesting to see which way things go.
I dont see India backing off from its position to deescalate to earlier positions and removing reinforcemnt from rear areas mutually..........
Now that put Chinese in to a tight spot. they have 2 options.
1) Agree for a mutual withdrawal and move back and life back to normal
2) Stay where they are and claim land - Which will result into a situation india forcefully moving them or trying to move them and results in a war.
Point 1 : A mutual withdrawal will result in embarrassment as they already got booted in Doklam, and will weaken XI and PB internally there would be rift with in. Even if they stay together without any differences, externally they will be embarrassed, and that will result in other adversaries taking strong stand against them - Let us not forget there is pile of countries who is hostile to china vice versa. This will show as they being the peaceful country without intending any hostile actions...... Probably the only positive outcome for them in this scenario.......
Point 2: This can be quite bloody, and PLA already know the state which IA is in, so the moment things get hot it will be difficult for PLA to hold the heights (as believed by many) near P4. The chances are that the hostilities will not be confined to 2 locations, it can spread across LAC which may not be good to them. We are very certain that the fishes are on move and might have reached the station by now. So if Chinese are looking at a limited war, it is gonna be interesting to see what the objective would be. If they start the war and end up not achieving the objective we are back to square one, with lot of losses.
The only chances for chinese to win will be by having a full blown war with quick climbing of escalation ladder and use the entire military might against us........ But I dont see that happening...
We can do the same thing to them.
You are incorrectly assuming that we are too weak to stop them.
There's nothing UN can do here.
Purely in terms of specs, the T-72s are outclassed by the Type 15s. Armour, firepower, mobility and transportability are superior. The tank can be paradropped, and comes with modular armour. It has more firepower than the T-90 with Mango rounds with only a 105mm gun, also has a 5Km range gun-launched ATGM. It's lighter than the T-72, but also comes with an engine in the same class as the T-90S, plus has hydro-pneumatic suspension with the ability to adjust ground clearance. It's also been designed specific to the Ladakh region, so it should be a lot more maintenance friendly than the T-72 or the T-90, which is likely going to be the most important factor.
In terms of numbers, they could easily have 500+ by now, and that could be a lower estimate.
We should have introduced the T-90MS a long time ago in both Sikkim and Ladakh. Although the most obvious upgrade option was Japan's Type 10. Has the same weight as the T-72, beats the Type 15 in every important parameter, and comes with a 120mm smoothbore cannon that can fire any operational NATO round. With the DM53, it can shred any tank the Chinese throw at us in Ladakh. It was available for export since 2014, but we didn't bother with it.
I think the world noticed the problems prevails in PLA .One of the respected member in here just
said that after our forces charged on the PLA ,there chain of command was broken like a shock and awe .
We can see the change in the attitude of Japan also.
Japan is now again challenges China .
This heavy military build up is seems was actually a defensive offensive strategy .
IA already got the worse attack happened on that 15th night .
If the report is correct ,it seems it is correct ,Chinese casualities will force them for a counter attack for raise the morale of PLA and we want them to go from valley.So military buiod up was the answer for both .
All it takes one good consequences the eorld is watching whether Chinese are just bloated balloon
The Chinese suffered more than 40 casualties , News leaked and reached Mainland China and Chinese people started talking and asking questions
Now PLA is aware that a bigger conflict means thousands of more casualties
And it will be not a victory for them
Most likely a stalemate or they will be forced to pull back .
So War is Not in the interest of PLA or Xi or that Rouge General Zongqui
Now PLA is aware that a bigger conflict means thousands of more casualties
And it will be not a victory for them
Most likely a stalemate or they will be forced to pull back .
So War is Not in the interest of PLA or Xi or that Rouge General Zongqui
But would it be able to penetrate Indian armour. Earlier you were saying the type 96 are inferior to our t90s so how could light tanks like type 15 be superior to our mbts??
And 105 mm rounds are incapable of penetrating through gen 1 era how could they take out k5 t90's and k1 t72. Wouldn't our armour be superior right now until they don't introduce their type 99 and 96's which are actually superior in firepower, mobility and protection.
Any detailed comparison of the type 15's because there is literally nothing online talking about its armour or main gun. Even the Americans have 650mm rha 105 mm apfsds but they introduced 120mm because the apfsds were considered to be incapable of penetrating tanks with modern era so how could Chibes outclass our t72's
A pull back after all these hyped up military activity is going to be humiliating for the Chinese government.
It has far reaching implications. If you see the number of countries that China has border disputes with, such a move will embolden the entire bunch.
Already we have Japan making offensive posture towards China. If the whole idea behind this military circus by China was to show the world how damn powerful it is, it will backfire big time. Xi Jingping will not be happy with it.
Given how devious and cunning China is, it will try to do something else to save face, it is just matter of time.
How I see it, de-escalation is not an option for China, & definitely not on India's terms.
On the other hand, our terms are non-negotiable. So we have a deadlock there.
So it's either peace and loss of face OR armed conflict & China definitely believes that they stand a better chance in the second case.
A full blown war, may be not, but a limited exchange, most likely & China will be betting to over power India. Not only that will help them save face but also be a message to the rest the countries they have issues with.
All these peace talks and stuff are most likely a bluff to get India to a place when we are least likely to expect an offensive from China.
India should take all these with pinch of salt and prepare for the worst. As far as my understanding of Chinese psyche goes, they are not likely to back out & lose face.
What it means is Chinese are so Shit scared of Indians, that they refuse to let go of there guns, be it sleep or going to bathroom for as piss..
And if someone is to knock the door at the wrong time, they are liable to shoot there .... off.
Good Job global times, just proved how scared are you of Indians
I am referring to superiority over our T-72s.
The old Type 96 is obsolete, just like the T-72, and the Type 99 is too heavy to be used in Tibet and Ladakh, so we are unlikely to see it in action in our theatre.
The Type 15 has elements of modern design techniques, where armour can be kept low for transportation, but can be enchanced or uparmoured to the level of an MBT whenever required.
As for firepower, there's nothing special on the Type 15 that's comparable to anything in the West. It's our T-72 and T-90 that possess inadequate firepower, to the point that they barely compete with the Type 15. Our current tanks are decades behind the latest Western tanks when it comes to firepower. It's because our tank carousels are too small to accept the latest Russian ammo. The Russians are currently upgrading their T-90s to the latest level, and the T-90MS is their export version of the same. Which is why I said we should get a few hundred Japanese Type 10s for use in Ladakh and Sikkim, and equip them with whatever modern 120mm rounds the West is willing to export to us (very expensive option).
The gun isn't everything, the shell matters a lot more. For example, the Americans use a weaker German gun on their Abrams, it's a 44 cal version, whereas the Germans use a 55 cal version on their Leopards. Even then, the American shells penetrate more armour due to their shell design. To put things into context, based on open source info, the German rounds (tungsten) can penetrate 650-750mm of steel from 2Km away, the American rounds (DU) can penetrate 850mm of steel, with the latest round rumoured to do 1000mm+. The latest Russian rounds (tungsten) that cannot fit inside our tanks manage 650-700mm. Otoh, our T-72s and T-90s manage 450-500mm (Russian shells do 450mm, Israeli shells do 500mm and DRDO is hoping to achieve 550mm, all tungsten). Chinese shells for their MBTs are also now comparable with the West.
The T-72's armour is really weak. This is for the ones we operate.
So you can expect the Type 15 to be much, much better than the values for the T-72.
Which is why we need at least the T-90s facing China, not the T-72s.
The T-72s are fine against Pakistan, in a way, where most of the tanks they have are much worse.
I think Mods should make one unique thread for 2 front engagement with Pak China so that it's easy to post things happening now in correlation to eachother.
Breaking: India reduces it's diplomatic staff in IHC Islamabad by 50% and Pak offcials are also asked to leave India and maintain only 50% strength in PHC Delhi.
Seems, message given to China that maintain peace with India and don't interfere when India thrashes Pakistan.
Breaking: India reduces it's diplomatic staff in IHC Islamabad by 50% and Pak offcials are also asked to leave India and maintain only 50% strength in PHC Delhi.
Seems, message given to China that maintain peace with India and don't interfere when India thrashes Pakistan.
This was in response to two of our staff members in Pakistan being abducted by Pakistani goons.
I doubt China has anything to do with it.
It is a strong message to Pakistan none the less.
So, India reducing its staff strength & asking Paxtan to do so by 50% is sending a message to China not to interfere in Indo Pak relations, is it ?