Line of Actual Control (LAC) : India & Tibet Border Updates

It appears they will now have to bring in boats in order to maintian logistics supplies to the gap.
But from where. They have been cutoff from the main supply route. The kala Top and Helmet top gives us dominance over the complete ridgeline which extends to the east of spangur tso on its north and completely blocks any mutual support between PT and ST garrisons.
 
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But from where. They have been cutoff from the main supply route. The kala Top and Helmet top gives us dominance over the complete ridgeline which extends to the east of spangur tso on its north and completely blocks any mutual support between PT and ST garrisons.

I meant during peacetime, not during wartime. It's not like they are going to retreat from the gap until and unless a shooting war begins.
 
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We cut off the southern side by occupying heights East of LAC at Reqin La


Their Steering wheel is missing :)
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But Raqin La is way south of spanggur lake? Does it have line of sight with the road ?
 
This is getting ridiculous. Pakistan is under one person's thumb or the other. The owner of that thumb is a very powerful country. Always. India needs to build up its own thumb that's strong enough to put a country of 200 million under it, that's not today.

Pakistan can attack Jammu as long as they have the blessings of China, even if the US opposes because the Chinese thumb is more or less good enough to push back the US thumb.

Otoh, we are not under anyone's thumb because we have decided that's how it's gonna be. The drawback is without the support of the owner of a powerful thumb, we can't do anything either. Had we decided to go under the US thumb after independence, we would have been the boss of the entire IOR and Pak would never have become a threat to us. Pak became a threat to us because they decided to go under the US thumb instead.

Do note I chose to use the word "thumb" instead of "wing" because being under someone's wing is not embarassing. And I told you earlier, until we get to the point where we can afford anywhere between 50-200 Rafales or equivalent per year, we aren't capable of playing in the big leagues.
Bullshit! If thumbs matter that much then India needs to play one thumb against another. Like it did in '71. It was doable back then, it is doable right now.

Or this entire 'Thumb business' is a pathetic excuse. Its used in retrospection to explain the incompetence. If after having a ten times economy and ten times the defence budget this is the result then its about time to admit it: Incompetence is the reason. Be it diplomatic incompetence, leadership or military. It shows.

Heck lets see it in this way, rich and powerful countries like USA do not like another power to rise. They do all sorts of games but China did rise and from a situation much worse than ours. Where is our competence if we cann't even deal with Pakistan?

Against China and Pakistan we have enough diplomatic support of USA and NATO. If we cann't still do a damn thing, then we are to be blamed for our incompetence, especially when we have morons like Jaishankar on helm.

I used to hear similar arguments about 370 cann't be abrogated because we will be sanctioned to hell. We just did that. Or we cann't test nukes because we will be sanctions. It happened. Or we cann't get more than this range of missile or some other pathetic excuse.
 
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But from where. They have been cutoff from the main supply route. The kala Top and Helmet top gives us dominance over the complete ridgeline which extends to the east of spangur tso on its north and completely blocks any mutual support between PT and ST garrisons.
But, the supply lines are still open.. We haven't physically blocked the supply lines, although we are in a position to do so .. right ?
 
Invasion of PoK is one thing & sanitizing it another. There's a lot of mopping up to be done before we can declare final victory . We may well reach the Wakhan corridor in 2 weeks or less. We'd then be up against a heavily armed restive local populace within after we've achieved our objectives. Have you considered that? That's what he's meant when he gave a TL of 60-90 days.
(y) Most ppl dont think in a practical & realistic manner. All that they think is we need a jet & two bombs more than enemy to win the war.
 
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Bullshit! If thumbs matter that much then India needs to play one thumb against another. Like it did in '71. It was doable back then, it is doable right now.

Or this entire 'Thumb business' is a pathetic excuse. Its used in retrospection to explain the incompetence. If after having a ten times economy and ten times the defence budget this is the result then its about time to admit it: Incompetence is the reason. Be it diplomatic incompetence, leadership or military. It shows.

Heck lets see it in this way, rich and powerful countries like USA do not like another power to rise. They do all sorts of games but China did rise and from a situation much worse than ours. Where is our competence if we cann't even deal with Pakistan?

Against China and Pakistan we have enough diplomatic support of USA and NATO. If we cann't still do a damn thing, then we are to be blamed for our incompetence, especially when we have morons like Jaishankar on helm.

I used to hear similar arguments about 370 cann't be abrogated because we will be sanctioned to hell. We just did that. Or we cann't test nukes because we will be sanctions. It happened. Or we cann't get more than this range of missile or some other pathetic excuse.
china yes, pakistan doubt so. West might be ok if we slap pakistan but running them down completely doesnt suit their interests. For them pakistan is leverage against India they will not let pakistan being dismantled. As you correctly said we have simply not defended our interests well and let countries like pakistan thrive at our expense.
 
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china yes, pakistan doubt so. West might be ok if we slap pakistan but running them down completely doesnt suit their interests. For them pakistan is leverage against India they will not let pakistan being dismantled. As you correctly said we have simply not defended our interests well and let countries like pakistan thrive at our expense.
Honestly, its the question of speed and diplomacy. Put a sale of 20 billion dollar worth of armaments on the line and US deep-state will dance to your tunes regarding Pakistan.

Remember how UK behaves when there is a sale of weapons on the line?

Lastly, this gentleman believes that Pakistan will freely attack Jammu if we are dealing with China militarily. If USA cann't stop Pakistan from doing that then what power does USA have over us? I sincerely believe this entire US mai-baap syndrome is over stated. We have crossed redlines enough number of times and over a period of time US had to mend its relations with us.

We tested nukes, which is as big of a red line as it gets, at that point we were not at all having an ecnomic clout neither we were having a super power protecting our interests. Only Russia and France came to our support. But very soon, US was back to normal.
 
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Bullshit! If thumbs matter that much then India needs to play one thumb against another. Like it did in '71. It was doable back then, it is doable right now.

Nope. It didn't work in 1971 to the extent needed. And completely failed in the 80s. After the 90s, it was over. The only choice after that was to put our own thumb in the game. This is what China did successfully.

Or this entire 'Thumb business' is a pathetic excuse. Its used in retrospection to explain the incompetence. If after having a ten times economy and ten times the defence budget this is the result then its about time to admit it: Incompetence is the reason. Be it diplomatic incompetence, leadership or military. It shows.

When the Americans threatened to cut off Russia from SWIFT for their Crimea action, the Russians threatened to cut off the US and the rest of the world from the internet by cutting off submarine cables. They have the capability to do it with their nuclear submarines. That ended the spat. That's how diplomacy works. Read post 6484. It's exactly how it works.

I'm done explaining to kids how the world works.
 
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India has not been in a proper conflict since 1971 , kargil being highly localized.
Is their a system in the IA to take the formal input of our veterans who actually took part in the previous major conflicts ?
Though frankly a modern conflict would differ a lot now from the fog of war of the early 70s , but atleast for fixed defences , tactically they could be of some guidance.
I was seeing a clip of our soldiers stationed behind sandbag defenses next to a road carrying supplies to the front and the post looked so isolated and makeshift that it gave no confidence.
We over analyze everything, like we are doing with the one hill taken or lost , etc , while our defense should be based on overall deterrence , not piecemeal tactical wins. Defending a 3000 km stretch can never be about losing or gaining a few kms here and there.
The no arms policy has resulted in the Chinese getting away unmolested after every incursion and lack of comprehensive deterrence means China has the edge psychologically.
If we want to avoid manning another frontier , the enemy has to believe that India will use all its resources, conventional, chemical and nuclear incase of serious conflict. All this weak kneed no first use policy has turned into a very soft state.
Modi has changed this somewhat with the actions on the western front. The Pakistanis hate him as their illusions of safety have been shattered by the raids. Same thing is required with China. A peaceful resolution to present conflict is a harbinger of future similar problems.
 
Pakistan can attack Jammu as long as they have the blessings of China, even if the US opposes because the Chinese thumb is more or less good enough to push back the US thumb.
Jammu defenses as on date are far far stronger than what they were in 1965 and 1971. Pakistan dare not attempt anything in that area. Infect they are now worried about sialkot sector due to the offensive power we have in Jammu-Akhnoor area.

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But Raqin La is way south of spanggur lake? Does it have line of sight with the road ?
The reqin la and Hunnan La does not mean just those precise areas, it means heights dominating these areas with the passes themselves being held in strength. Please see the map below, the ridheline and the mountain tops occupied by India are shown in red.
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