Line of Actual Control (LAC) : India & Tibet Border Updates

BlackOpsIndia said:
Because they are weak right now,
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where I dont see it? may be to US of A but not for us.
BlackOpsIndia said:
who hold no credibility in the world.
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There is no such word in chinese dictionary, national security law in hongkong remember? They agreed to preserve it autonomy and now they are openly reneging on it.
BlackOpsIndia said:
That position of strength argument is right except w.r.t to China we don't know when will we in that position, there is a significant gap, thankfully due to Covid and whole world breathing down China's neck that gap is reduced for the moment, we should try to make use of it.

If you think WHO resolution will put us in position of strength I don't think that's happening. It's a nation of 1.35 Billion, well integrated in world economy with significant economic clout, they will survive whatever US can throw and US won't throw much.
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Thats what we think, but hard truth is that chinese only care about economy & trade. Are we ready to cut trade say by atleast $20-30 billion or impose significant taxes ? We have big mouths but no execution capability. I simply see no big reason for china to entertain us, bcos for every action we do they can do the same thing.
BlackOpsIndia said:
Trump is aggresive because his own inaction on Covid led to significant damage and there is a election few months later so he want an enemy to present to public that can hide his mismanagement and at the same time present him as a strong leader something his core base like so much.
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Nope, you are seriously underestimating trump. He might speak like a buffoon but his actions are well thought out & planned. They are dismantling china's power brick by brick , covid or no covid makes no difference. Covid is just a good excuse or cover. We will be mistaken to think its just trump who is against china its entire US.

Radical racist white electorate which forms the trump core will vote for him, simply bcos they have no other alternative. They simply hate others, trump election is more or less a backlash against obama and it will continue. Chances of him getting re-elected is certainly high, just think of it as community based politics in India however bad the candidate may be he will get elected if he belongs to the community. Rest of the things dont matter.
 
_Anonymous_ said:
The total area they've seized after 1962 in Ladakh is more than 1200 sq kms with most of it happening during MMS's term. Of course it began in a very small manner during ABV's term. It's one of the best kept secret in India. A few years ago when Sham Saran as NSAB chief issued a report (?) claiming the same during MMS's tenure, it raised a minor storm & Saran was forced to recant his statement.

Unfortunately, if this government opens its mouth on the issue now it'd be counter productive & fools here suggest we should be seeking accommodation with China without knowing that irrespective of any excuse that they may site or you may attribute to yourself their aim is simple ( just as society & the rapist blames the victim for having provoked the attack) - to grab as much land in Ladakh as possible . In fact they've gone far beyond what they've claimed in 1960 to the extent that they've been claiming in the past few years that they don't share a border with India in Ladakh. I've hinted as much in my earlier posts. Guess that went over a lot of heads too.
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No dear, it dates back all the way to 1962. In 1962, while China withdrew from Arunanchal Pradesh, they NEVER withdrew from so called eastern sector. Actually in 1962, in eastern sector, their forces advanced to all the areas claimed by them in 1960 and have remained in that area ever since.

1590691984393.png


Wanna know something even more fun?

Its called Line of Actual Control. Till 1993, that phrase had no meaning. No meaning at all. Then we signed a particular treaty in 1993 which mentioned Line of Actual Control. The fun part? It never defined the Line of Actual Control. The line of actual control became the areas they have occupied in 1962 because those are places till where their forces reached and they controlled them. So, in essence, Line of Actual Control is more or less same as their claim line of 1960. In the Phuck-A-Chink Tso lake it passes right between the lake.

Now you may ask what is Indian government's official position on LAC? Its this : "There is NO commonly agreed LAC between India and China". And YET we have signed a treaty which is practically based on it.

So this entire narrative of Lost in 2013 etc etc is all stupid. In 1993, by mentioning Line of Actual Control, we sort of agreed that China controls what it claimed in 1960. The treaty though allows us to put a claim on those areas but we are not allowed to control those.



@Falcon @vstol Jockey Please correct me if I am wrong.
 
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jetray said:
There is no such word in chinese dictionary, national security law in hongkong remember? They agreed to preserve it autonomy and now they are openly reneging on it.
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Once the occupational forces leave and return the territory how much do you think the one who left should decide?

We have an equivalent of Hong Kong we recently striped autonomy of, we promised it while annexation. We revoked it because it was wrong, it was creating problems for us, it cannot work like that but we did promise it, didn't we? How does it affect our credibility?

I don't know how pious we are to comment how others should rule their country but we have enough skeletons we don't want to look at and preach others.

jetray said:
Nope, you are seriously underestimating trump. He might speak like a buffoon but his actions are well thought out & planned. They are dismantling china's power brick by brick , covid or no covid makes no difference. Covid is just a good excuse or cover. We will be mistaken to think its just trump who is against china its entire US.
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China is real threat to US and US establishment is saying it from sometime now. They realised it's a threat a decade ago and since then China has only grown bigger. So you are right actions does matter, I hope they do something someday beyond stories in paper and tweets.
 
It is so depressing all these , what's the point of having a country and the damn politicians and the million strong military if we have been conceding our territories like nobody's business.

Fuk this shit , won't waste any more bandwidth, not worth it
 
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hellbent said:
It is so depressing all these , what's the point of having a country and the damn politicians and the million strong military if we have been conceding our territories like nobody's business.

Fuk this shit , won't waste any more bandwidth, not worth it
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The issue goes back to 62 and 93. Nothing new has been conceded.

In 62 we suffered defeat.

In 93 we agreed that we will not try to take back areas controlled by China by force and will resolve it via diplomacy.
 
AbRaj said:
You are saying we should do a land swap like we did with Bongos.
But the problem is Chinese don’t want to give anything they are occupying. You cant do swapping unilaterally
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Man how do you know this before even trying? We may have a breakthrough we may not. What's this reluctance with not even trying? We have given so many chances to Pakistan, the eternal enemy that we know will never change here we know everything beforehand?

China has offered friendship treaty to India, formally, maybe it's just a PR gimmick but we should put them on spot, let's see them backtracking.

In 2015 Turkey Shot down Russian Fighter jet that just violated their airspace for few seconds. The pilot was killed on ground due to hostile terrain. 8 months later there was an attempt to assassinate Erdogan for Coup d'etat, it was golden opportunity for Russia to rub it in but instead they helped Erdogan to survive Coup, few months later Russian ambassador was killed in Turkey by Islamists it's a rare event. Other nations would have gone bonkers but Russia played maturely. Few months later Turkey, a NATO ally from decades was signing Billions of weapons deal with Russia.

They not only created rift and mistrust in NATO but effectively neutralized the threat at border.

Few openings during desperate times go long way, why shy away from trying to exploit them? If it work well and good, if it doesn't what will you lose?
 
Saaho said:
No dear, it dates back all the way to 1962. In 1962, while China withdrew from Arunanchal Pradesh, they NEVER withdrew from so called eastern sector. Actually in 1962, in eastern sector, their forces advanced to all the areas claimed by them in 1960 and have remained in that area ever since.

View attachment 16151

Wanna know something even more fun?

Its called Line of Actual Control. Till 1993, that phrase had no meaning. No meaning at all. Then we signed a particular treaty in 1993 which mentioned Line of Actual Control. The fun part? It never defined the Line of Actual Control. The line of actual control became the areas they have occupied in 1962 because those are places till where their forces reached and they controlled them. So, in essence, Line of Actual Control is more or less same as their claim line of 1960. In the Phuck-A-Chink Tso lake it passes right between the lake.

Now you may ask what is Indian government's official position on LAC? Its this : "There is NO commonly agreed LAC between India and China". And YET we have signed a treaty which is practically based on it.

So this entire narrative of Lost in 2013 etc etc is all stupid. In 1993, by mentioning Line of Actual Control, we sort of agreed that China controls what it claimed in 1960. The treaty though allows us to put a claim on those areas but we are not allowed to control those.



@Falcon @vstol Jockey Please correct me if I am wrong.
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I'm referring to the parts where we had actual control post '62 as opposed to exercising sovereignty over it which in turn means It's an accepted border as recognised by both sides. It's those parts that have gradually seen erosion from our control since the late 1990's . As of today, it's fairly well accepted that China has gone & nibbled away area much beyond what they coveted in 1960 & won in 1962. That's what my post was all about. The BDCA & subsequent agreements were all about maintaining the status quo pending a final settlement apart from peace & tranquility on the border areas .

Our using terms that the border hasn't been demarcated & that there are problems in perception by both sides leading to disagreements & occasional clashes are just a smokescreen to cover our losses & pussilanimity. Do you have any record of Indian soldiers straying across the LAC into Chinese controlled lands in groups & staying put for weeks on end . Why's it observed only on Indian controlled territory? Are you still trying to tell me you can't see through their game?
 
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BlackOpsIndia said:
Man how do you know this before even trying? We may have a breakthrough we may not. What's this reluctance with not even trying? We have given so many chances to Pakistan, the eternal enemy that we know will never change here we know everything beforehand?

China has offered friendship treaty to India, formally, maybe it's just a PR gimmick but we should put them on spot, let's see them backtracking.

In 2015 Turkey Shot down Russian Fighter jet that just violated their airspace for few seconds. The pilot was killed on ground due to hostile terrain. 8 months later there was an attempt to assassinate Erdogan for Coup d'etat, it was golden opportunity for Russia to rub it in but instead they helped Erdogan to survive Coup, few months later Russian ambassador was killed in Turkey by Islamists it's a rare event. Other nations would have gone bonkers but Russia played maturely. Few months later Turkey, a NATO ally from decades was signing Billions of weapons deal with Russia.

They not only created rift and mistrust in NATO but effectively neutralized the threat at border.

Few openings during desperate times go long way, why shy away from trying to exploit them? If it work well and good, if it doesn't what will you lose?
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Have read about it a long time ago.
At 70s they were intersected in something like this , not anymore. They think that they can get the land by other means. The IANS tweet mentioned above suggests that they are successful in getting the desired result.
Perhaps @Falcon can tell better about that matter
 
hellbent said:
It is so depressing all these , what's the point of having a country and the damn politicians and the million strong military if we have been conceding our territories like nobody's business.

Fuk this shit , won't waste any more bandwidth, not worth it
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United States can only help by putting pressure on China but India need full time assistance. I think your government has shown courage but I think India need final solution to this problem.even if this tension diffuse,it will start somewhere else near your border. Anyway pakistan is monitoring this situation closely. Obviously we urge both parties to use diplomatic channels. War is useless.
 
AbRaj said:
Have read about it a long time ago.
At 70s they were intersected in something like this , not anymore. They think that they can get the land by other means. The IANS tweet mentioned above suggests that they are successful in getting the desired result.
Perhaps @Falcon can tell better about that matter
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They made this offer as recent as last year not talking about 70's.
 
hellbent said:
It is so depressing all these , what's the point of having a country and the damn politicians and the million strong military if we have been conceding our territories like nobody's business.

Fuk this shit , won't waste any more bandwidth, not worth it
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Atleast fight and kill a few chinese before conceding territory.. This laal aankh .. and hugging and brawls, and stone pelting are not why we have a million man army..
 
Also, it's not as hard as you think! In Kargil, the direction was not to cross the LoC from the political class. Had it not been so IA could have ended it way faster by cutting supply lines from behind and the side! Any attempt to take LoC will not have that imposed limitation! Also, IMHO India will never likely directly take PoK they will try to get it through swapping of other important captured areas.
 
@BlackOpsIndia

Get this area : (box in)
78.13869620811688,34.74039352271734 ;
78.24176008951413,34.74039352271734;
78.24176008951413,34.79870954560714;
78.13869620811688,34.79870954560714

Get it for 27th May from SkySat at resolution 0.8 or better.

It looks something like this :

1590700654846.png


This is Galwan River and valley.
 
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randomradio said:
While true, it can only be an advantage if we have enough aircraft. We are still 10 squadrons short. In reality, at least 20 squadrons short, 'cause 42 squadrons isn't enough anyway.
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Same applies to China. They will have to move their planes from east side facing threat from usa
 
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