with 54 Mig 21 to boot. which are good for the PAF but not practically effective with the Chinese
Line of Actual Control (LAC) : India & Tibet Border Updates
- Thread starter Shashank
- Start date
I am seeing a lot of media chatter about China LAC etc but ALL of them and including this thread is MISSING one critical point. Also see the terms "Indian Territory" in that video. This basically is what is called as shooting in the foot. By calling the land west to so called "LAC" as "Indian Territory", these media reports are messing up Indian narrative. The entire fukken region west to Johnson Line is Indian territory.
That point is that we are TALKING about LAC. LAC has become an issue. What should have been the conversation is the Johnson Line, the one which India claims is the boundary. By shifting the narrative to LAC, we have weakened our position. This issue stems from us signing 1993 treaty which mentions LAC. Before this LAC had no meaning at all. By allowing the language of the treaty to include "Line of Actual Control", we have messed it up. We should have asked for some other terminology like cease fire line or something similar and should have included mention of our claim by Johnson line.
This is because LAC is essentially Chinese claim from 1960. Its like Pakistan having entire kashmir and having a LoC around Himanchal Pradesh and we are talking only about LoC.
They are more than good for intercepting Chinese helicopters. China cannot deploy any bigger crafts in any meaningful number due to limited airbases. They have just one airstrip, if taken out by a missile attack then they have nothing.
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Very right sir. Some analysts believe that we would require a force level of 58 squadrons to win a two front war. I hold that opinion too.
It's not really a problem for them. Today, they cannot fight the US anyway, but the sheer size of their air force is big enough to just move some around to fight us with.
All they have to do is bring 300 jets out of their total inventory of 1000+ 4th gen jets into the area and stop us from bombing their troops, ie only perform air defence. But we can't do that anyway since we have only 10 squadrons available instead of the usual 20+ that we need for conducting offensive missions, or the 30+ that we really need since war in the mountains isn't going to be short and we need attrition replacements during this time.
The J-20's potentially longer endurance than the Flanker can pose a challenge to the IAF. They already seem to have 2 regiments of J-20 operational while we do not have even 1 Rafale squadron available yet. And this is not even counting their whole host of long range SAMs in their inventory currently.
You mean 110+ Mig-21s?
IAF may get blocked at 45 squadrons at best, but in the long run the IN may contribute about 10 squadrons to any war effort.
But right now we are stuck with below 35 combined, which is the actual problem.
Question: Where will they base them? Which base in their wastern flank has capacity to house, service and supply 300 4th gen fighters. As someone very wise (@Falcon) said, War is Logisitics.
First, there are 610-50 fourth gen fighters with China, not 1000. They are
Su30 MKK - 76
Su35 - 24
J 10A/B/C - 235
J 11 - 346
J 16 - 128
J 20 - 15
Rest are obselete 3rd gen or non air combat planes.
If China dedicates 300 planes to fight India, It will be left with measly 330 or so working planes. Most of Chinese planes are Russian copy or licensed with poor availability like Su27 and its derivaties. To fight with say US Pacific airforce, they will need twice if not thrice the planes. And that is just the pacific airforce. Factor in USN operated carriers and suddenly China is dead in water.
J20 is unproven plane. It does not even have functioning engine. For all you know, those 15 J20s will drop like flies. Its chinese engineering after all.
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How China Used Deception To Mobilise Troops At Border With India In Ladakh
India Today TV has exclusive details of how China used subterfuge to up its presence and stun the Indian side on the Indo-China border...
Exclusive: Latest images show China's war threat may not be rhetoric
Fresh images from the European Space Agency show signs of movement in the Aksai Chin region as late as the third week of this month.
India’s LAC infra upgrade unnerves China
economictimes.indiatimes.com
India’s LAC infra upgrade unnerves China
China has been unnerved by Indias slow but steady improvement in border infrastructure for faster mobility of its troops and weapon systems in forward areas over the last few years. One of the triggers for the ongoing troop confrontations in eastern Ladakh is Indias completion of the 255-km...
The Chinese have 6 major airfields and many minor airfields spread across Tibet.
Those numbers are pretty old now.
The J-10s are much, much, much more than that. IIRC, about 400 were already operational in 2016. Highest production rate was 60 jets per year.
The J-11s are also much more now, ever since J-11D inductions started. Even J-16 numbers are more than a year old. The PLAAF crossed 1000+ 4th gen fighter jets a long time ago.
As for J-20, there are enough to equip 2 full regiments now. More than 50.
Satellite pictures reveal China's PLA studying Ladakh terrain to train for possible future attack
Satellite pictures have revealed that China has recreated Ladakh’s territorial layout in Helan Shan region to train its forces for possible future attack.
India China standoff explained: Bridge over troubled waters
India has matched the China army’s deployment in terms of troops, capacity and resources in eastern Ladakh that is witnessing four simultaneous standoffs between the two armies.
CHINA'S LONG HISTORY OF INCREMENTAL OCCUPATION OF INDIAN TERRITORY IN LADAKH
FRIDAY, MAY 29, 2020 BY INDIAN DEFENCE NEWS
New Delhi: Even as the Central government has never admitted it, China had occupied 640 sq km of Indian territory in Eastern Ladakh during the second term of the UPA regime under Prime Minister Manmohan Singh.
In 2013, former Foreign Secretary Shyam Saran, who was at the time Chairman of the National Security Advisory Board (NASB) under the National Security Council of the Manmohan Singh government, after his visit to the region had informed the government that the People's Liberation Army (PLA) patrol had set a new Line of Actual Control (LAC), thus occupying 640 sq km of Indian territory in Eastern Ladakh.
The undemarcated LAC came into existence when China in 1962 occupied Aksai Chin, an uninhabited high-altitude wasteland of the former state of Jammu and Kashmir, and now part of the Union Territory of Ladakh. The state was bifurcated into two Union Territories in August last year.
The land grab in 2013 by the PLA happened after India had signed nine agreements, including the Border Defence Cooperation Agreement (BDCA), the same year in March ahead of Chinese Premier Li Keqiang's visit to India. Incidentally, the proposal for BDCA was presented by China, which had been keen to get it signed before Li's visit.
Though China undermined the agreement soon after it was signed when it led an incursion in Depsang area of Ladakh in April, the standoff at Doklam and now at both Eastern (Arunachal Pradesh and Sikkim) and Western (Ladakh) frontiers between the two countries has left the sanctity of the BDCA in tatters.
In fact, the BDCA, like all other previous bilateral agreements signed by the two sides in 1993, 1996, 2005 and 2012, has remained ineffective in checking Chinese incursions in Ladakh.
On an average, PLA intrusions occur 250-300 times annually and usually during July and August when the weather is favourable. From 2010 to 2013, China made nearly 600 incursions into the Indian side.
Over time, China has only added newer and greater claims on areas in Ladakh, in addition to the known disputed areas over which India and China fought in 1962.
In the 1950s, China had surreptitiously built a 179 km road in the Indian territory of Aksai Chin, which eventually led to a dispute and talks, followed by the 1962 war. After seven decades, from the 4,056 km disputed border between the two countries, China has slowly reduced it to merely 2,000 km in its claims. Apart from the military build-up, China has slowly invested in infrastructure in the disputed areas of Ladakh.
China has maintained that it wants to ‘ensure peace and stability' along the borders without affecting bilateral relations. Even now Beijing and the Chinese Embassy in New Delhi have reiterated the same policy, even as it has only consolidated its position on India's Western frontier in Ladakh.
Agencies
www.indiandefensenews.in
FRIDAY, MAY 29, 2020 BY INDIAN DEFENCE NEWS
New Delhi: Even as the Central government has never admitted it, China had occupied 640 sq km of Indian territory in Eastern Ladakh during the second term of the UPA regime under Prime Minister Manmohan Singh.
In 2013, former Foreign Secretary Shyam Saran, who was at the time Chairman of the National Security Advisory Board (NASB) under the National Security Council of the Manmohan Singh government, after his visit to the region had informed the government that the People's Liberation Army (PLA) patrol had set a new Line of Actual Control (LAC), thus occupying 640 sq km of Indian territory in Eastern Ladakh.
The undemarcated LAC came into existence when China in 1962 occupied Aksai Chin, an uninhabited high-altitude wasteland of the former state of Jammu and Kashmir, and now part of the Union Territory of Ladakh. The state was bifurcated into two Union Territories in August last year.
The land grab in 2013 by the PLA happened after India had signed nine agreements, including the Border Defence Cooperation Agreement (BDCA), the same year in March ahead of Chinese Premier Li Keqiang's visit to India. Incidentally, the proposal for BDCA was presented by China, which had been keen to get it signed before Li's visit.
Though China undermined the agreement soon after it was signed when it led an incursion in Depsang area of Ladakh in April, the standoff at Doklam and now at both Eastern (Arunachal Pradesh and Sikkim) and Western (Ladakh) frontiers between the two countries has left the sanctity of the BDCA in tatters.
In fact, the BDCA, like all other previous bilateral agreements signed by the two sides in 1993, 1996, 2005 and 2012, has remained ineffective in checking Chinese incursions in Ladakh.
On an average, PLA intrusions occur 250-300 times annually and usually during July and August when the weather is favourable. From 2010 to 2013, China made nearly 600 incursions into the Indian side.
Over time, China has only added newer and greater claims on areas in Ladakh, in addition to the known disputed areas over which India and China fought in 1962.
In the 1950s, China had surreptitiously built a 179 km road in the Indian territory of Aksai Chin, which eventually led to a dispute and talks, followed by the 1962 war. After seven decades, from the 4,056 km disputed border between the two countries, China has slowly reduced it to merely 2,000 km in its claims. Apart from the military build-up, China has slowly invested in infrastructure in the disputed areas of Ladakh.
China has maintained that it wants to ‘ensure peace and stability' along the borders without affecting bilateral relations. Even now Beijing and the Chinese Embassy in New Delhi have reiterated the same policy, even as it has only consolidated its position on India's Western frontier in Ladakh.
Agencies
China's Long History of Incremental Occupation of Indian Territory In Ladakh
New Delhi: Even as the Central government has never admitted it, China had occupied 640 sq km of Indian territory in Eastern Ladakh d...
I am not talking about Tibet. I am talking about WESTERN BORDER. Tibet is quite... BIG. It borders Arunanchal in the east. In war, those eastern airbases will find it hard to support western flank AND defend against India's Eastern side airbases at the same time. Also, "airfield" does not cut it. For each sotier you need to maintain your plane, reload it. Where will it get all the arms? There is just one railway that connects Lasha and Tibet to eastern manufacturing heartland of China.
Also, Lasha is about 1500 KM from the place of conflict. That is 3000 KM to and fro. Without weapon load, Su30 has a range of 3000 KM un-refuled. Good luck maintain CAS / air-superioriy from such a distance. Also good luck host 300 fighters in those 5-6 puny bases.
Here is a map from Dokhlam conflict time that might help.
Ugh.
China is behind on production of its most advanced fighter jet
China was thought to have built about 50 J-20s by the end of 2019, but problems with the J-20 stealth jets' engines have delayed production plans.
www.businessinsider.com
US President is now imagining phone conversations? Is he even mentally fit? Last time he imagined India's offer on Kashmir meditation, now phone call?!
This is not ok, tomorrow he can claim India gave us a base in Andaman!
Why do people take that guy literally? I mean he is the same guy who suggested people to drink bathroom cleaner or something. Will you ever trust anything he SAYS? The way to work with him is by actions and not words. He has got "best words".
He is US President, whatever he says for domestic audience can be ignored but when he is talking about other countries it can't be taken so lightly.
There only one way to get back pok, war. The area of pok is so huge that we can't do a land swap with pak. Aksaichin also same, 40000 sqkman area which is larger than kerala