Line of Actual Control (LAC) : India & Tibet Border Updates

[Quicksilver]

China warns the UK to 'step back from the brink' after Boris Johnson offers 3 million Hong Kong citizens refuge in Britain

The move dramatically escalated the row between Beijing and London.

www.yahoo.com

time to join the chorus -UK is offering HK ppl offer to move to Britain.
India should ask them to move to LAC/Tibet and the army will help.

better yet - offer an island of similar size on the andamans - and you can create a new HK in India.

 

[randomradio]

I am in a good mood.

Time to launch Operation KICK (Kick In Chinese Knickers)


Honestly. The area of interest right now in Gallowan Region. My dream to see PLA move into the area in aggressive moves.

You will see what burying an enemy will mean then.

Kick In Chinese Keisters.

 

[randomradio]

China warns the UK to 'step back from the brink' after Boris Johnson offers 3 million Hong Kong citizens refuge in Britain

The move dramatically escalated the row between Beijing and London.

www.yahoo.com

time to join the chorus -UK is offering HK ppl offer to move to Britain.
India should ask them to move to LAC/Tibet and the army will help.

better yet - offer an island of similar size on the andamans - and you can create a new HK in India.

That has more to do with their colonial history. Even in India, the Portuguese provide Goans with Portuguese passports ad citizenship for those born before 1961 and their descendants.

 

[Quicksilver]

That has more to do with their colonial history. Even in India, the Portuguese provide Goans with Portuguese passports ad citizenship for those born before 1961 and their descendants.

not after the hand over of HK to China.
at this point, we need to put pressure on China where it hurts. not let them choose their places of dispute (like the LAC)

 

[screambowl]

Don't know..

It s basically what discussed here only..
Put together all in one talk.

Like Removal of 370 and inclusion of akshai chin together with PoJK..
Talk by amit shah to recover all..

Border roads, tunnels.. Especially one connecting Srinagar to Leh..

Rajnath singh statement that road construction will go on..

About Imran khan statement, Oli s statement.. Chinese president statement.. And circumstances around it..

Harshvardhan appointment..

Like that..

Okay, well some times situations make them realize. Now every one is talking like screambowl

 

[randomradio]

not after the hand over of HK to China.
at this point, we need to put pressure on China where it hurts. not let them choose their places of dispute (like the LAC)

That's true. HK and Taiwan have been the West's points of pressure on China. We need to apply the same over Tibet now.

 

[Aurora]

No, I mean in case of a two-front war, if we attack Pakistan first, before China attacks India, we won't be seen as the aggressors. Especially considering Indo-Pak history.

Let us be clear on that, if there will be
a 'case' of two front war then both of our adversaries would be attacking us, that too simultaneously, so no chances of attacking one of them before other attack us.
That is why I have you that do you have a different definition of war??

 

[randomradio]

Let us be clear on that, if there will be
a 'case' of two front war then both of our adversaries would be attacking us, that too simultaneously, so no chances of attacking one of them before other attack us.
That is why I have you that do you have a different definition of war??

So you're saying India will sit quietly and wait for both Pakistan and China to buildup their forces?

 

[Aurora]

So you're saying India will sit quietly and wait for both Pakistan and China to buildup their forces?

I have said earlier. All we would do is to counter mobilise. Present situation is a perfect instance where both of our adversaries are mobilising and we are doing that too but with no intent of pre emptive strikes.
We are 'allowing' them to do that. Correct me If I am wrong.

 

[Saaho]

I have said earlier. All we would do is to counter mobilise. Present situation is a perfect instance where both of our adversaries are mobilising and we are doing that too but with no intent of pre emptive strikes.
We are 'allowing' them to do that. Correct me If I am wrong.

There is posturing and there is war. This is posturing. BTW, before you write India off, take a look at Indian air-bases in the region. Also, anything like Two front war will definitely attract a retaliation from US.

 

[Aurora]

There is posturing and there is war. This is posturing. BTW, before you write India off, take a look at Indian air-bases in the region. Also, anything like Two front war will definitely attract a retaliation from US.

Sir, First of all I would be grateful if you enlighten me that why do you think that this present 'posturing' cannot turn into a war.
Secondly I am not writing India off, it was a specific reply to a specific comment. I request you to read them. It is a fact that we don't have any intent of pre emptive strikes and we would be more than happy to let our enemies fire the first bullet. I don't need to have a look on our airbases to assess that.
Thirdly and last the prospects of involvement of any foreign power in the case of two front war is completely irrelevant in present discussion.

 

[Saaho]

Sir, First of all I would be grateful if you enlighten me that why do you think that this present 'posturing' cannot turn into a war.

Simple reason, it will be too many tonges in the fire simultaneously. HK, Taiwan, Corona Virus investigation, SCS.

Secondly I am not writing India off, it was a specific reply to a specific comment. I request you to read them. It is a fact that we don't have any intent of pre emptive strikes and we would be more than happy to let our enemies fire the first bullet. I don't need to have a look on our airbases to assess that.

Thats usually the perception everyone builds. "We didn't fire the first shot". Why do you think China is fighting as if it is 2020 BC and not AD?

About airbases.
You do : To understand how much each player can control the theatre, you need to look at what they can bring in the conflict.

Thirdly and last the prospects of involvement of any foreign power in the case of two front war is completely irrelevant in present discussion.

It is, its the asymmetric marriage between CN and PK. If it is a India-China conflict, there is going to be a Pakistan angle to it as well (not other way round btw). That brings USA / Quad in the picture. I do assume that Indian diplomats should have cut a half way decent deals in quad. I guess they would not public though.

 

[Quicksilver]

I have said earlier. All we would do is to counter mobilise. Present situation is a perfect instance where both of our adversaries are mobilising and we are doing that too but with no intent of pre emptive strikes.
We are 'allowing' them to do that. Correct me If I am wrong.

isnt the CSD designed to include Pak's mobilisation? and Pak current mobilisation is aimed at a limited "offense" towards Kashmir not a "Defence" of full strength unleashed by India.

 

[jetray]

I am in a good mood.

Time to launch Operation KICK (Kick In Chinese Knickers)


Honestly. The area of interest right now in Gallowan Region. My dream to see PLA move into the area in aggressive moves.

You will see what burying an enemy will mean then.

In war of bluff......

Unless we take action this needling will never stop. No risk no gain, we need to draw a redline for chinese behaviour.

China warns the UK to 'step back from the brink' after Boris Johnson offers 3 million Hong Kong citizens refuge in Britain

The move dramatically escalated the row between Beijing and London.

www.yahoo.com

time to join the chorus -UK is offering HK ppl offer to move to Britain.
India should ask them to move to LAC/Tibet and the army will help.

better yet - offer an island of similar size on the andamans - and you can create a new HK in India.

India should refuse to talk with chinese quoting they never had border with china but only with tibet. We need to have more cards when we go to negotiating table. We bargain away most of it and then wonder why chinese keep coming back.

 

[screambowl]

isnt the CSD designed to include Pak's mobilisation? and Pak current mobilisation is aimed at a limited "offense" towards Kashmir not a "Defence" of full strength unleashed by India.

Things if escalate it will happen within hours. After that CDS, BC XYZ who ever, the situation will go out of hands and then karo ya maro. That will be the final order from Gen Rawat.

 

[randomradio]

I have said earlier. All we would do is to counter mobilise. Present situation is a perfect instance where both of our adversaries are mobilising and we are doing that too but with no intent of pre emptive strikes.
We are 'allowing' them to do that. Correct me If I am wrong.

Yeah, as I pointed out, neither India nor China are moving their strike corps (India's MSC and the Chinese GAs from WTC). So whatever 'mobilisation' that's happening now is only with relation to the border troops. The problem is if the GAs from WTC start moving towards India's borders. Until that happens, it's all just posturing.

Of course, the Chinese also have the War Zone Campaign concept, which involves the border troops pushing into Indian territory to fight a limited war, the same as India's Cold Start. But that's basically a declaration of war. Of course, I know very little about WZC to comment on it, but it's obvious if the Chinese start shooting, we will see quite a bit of action at the border, which Falcon is hoping happens. Post which IA/GoI will have to figure out the intent of the enemy in order to not get caught in a two-front war facing simultaneous attacks from 2 enemies. I don't believe the IA is going to sit around waiting to hand over the initiative to the Chinese.

The IAF needs a week to take action against the PA and PAF before mobilising against PLAAF, which they demonstrated using Ex Gaganshakti. So the sooner it happens, the better.

Basically, what I'm saying is, if we are faced with a two-front situation, then we have to take the initiative and attack first, long before the Chinese finish deploying their forces.

 

[Quicksilver]

Basically, what I'm saying is, if we are faced with a two-front situation, then we have to take the initiative and attack first, long before the Chinese finish deploying their forces.

one thing. there may be a logical fallacy here but please clarify this for me:

a "two front" situation means:
1) Pak and China have both declared war: - at which point India is no longer taking "initiative" it is only reacting
2) Pak and China have NOT declared wr: at which point India becomes the aggressor - what is the fait accompli here? a new IED blast?
3) China doesnt declare anything. they simply claim and intrude. at which point, what is the red line that India draws before it attacks? else we will keep waiting for chinese declaration of war.

and finally
4) Pak wont declare war either - someone who were watching after we repeatedly walked over their red lines (370, balakot) and we still got no major escalation, what will be the reason for India to initiate full scale war with Pak?

 

[Saaho]

Basically, what I'm saying is, if we are faced with a two-front situation, then we have to take the initiative and attack first, long before the Chinese finish deploying their forces.

I do believe that we have arrangements in place with respect to China in form of military pacts with other Quad members.

 

[Saaho]

3) China doesnt declare anything. they simply claim and intrude. at which point, what is the red line that India draws before it attacks? else we will keep waiting for chinese declaration of war.

and finally
4) Pak wont declare war either - someone who were watching after we repeatedly walked over their red lines (370, balakot) and we still got no major escalation, what will be the reason for India to initiate full scale war with Pak?

If China starts killing our troops with no declaration of war, they will be paid in kind. Situation will be same as LOC. Small arms and artillery while standing still and occasional BAT like operation.

 

[randomradio]

one thing. there may be a logical fallacy here but please clarify this for me:

a "two front" situation means:
1) Pak and China have both declared war: - at which point India is no longer taking "initiative" it is only reacting
2) Pak and China have NOT declared wr: at which point India becomes the aggressor - what is the fait accompli here? a new IED blast?
3) China doesnt declare anything. they simply claim and intrude. at which point, what is the red line that India draws before it attacks? else we will keep waiting for chinese declaration of war.

and finally
4) Pak wont declare war either - someone who were watching after we repeatedly walked over their red lines (370, balakot) and we still got no major escalation, what will be the reason for India to initiate full scale war with Pak?

For war to happen, you need circumstances serious enough that favour war as an option. So when there's a trigger for war and the situation unfolds itself, it will get clearer as the days go by. A combination of failing diplomatic efforts and troop movements will tell you if war is inevitable or not. And you can go to war without declaring war.

In the Indo-Pak situation, we are not at peace and neither are we at war. But we see constant action at the LoC. So such a situation spiraling out of control can be considered reason enough for war. Like if the post-Balakot situation saw a continuous rise in escalation to the point where we went to war, who's the aggressor in such a situation? Anyway, everything they are doing right now is cause for war. Even if India is branded as the aggressor, we can simply blame the international community for their failure to rein in Pakistan. And if Pakistan ceases to exist, nobody's gonna care anymore.

As long as we draw up proper red lines, we won't be seen as the aggressor if the enemy crosses those red lines. I don't know what those red lines are of course.

The scale of the war also comes into the picture. It's likely that any future war we fight will be limited due to the danger of nukes. In this case, we may see net loss of territory on the Chinese front and net gain of territory in the Pakistani front, and will not see any significant destruction of any country. And in order to prevent any loss on the Chinese front, we have to modernise. So our only advantage today is to seize the initiative at first opportunity. We will have more options once our air force and army modernisation programs are up to speed.