Line of Actual Control (LAC) : India & Tibet Border Updates



From where this confidence is coming from?

Looks like they have decided to fish in troubled water.dimran unusual visit to ISI HQ indicates that something sinister is going to happen or ISI chief is the new boss of Pakistan.
 
vikata said:
From where this confidence is coming from?

Looks like they have decided to fish in troubled water.dimran unusual visit to ISI HQ indicates that something sinister is going to happen or ISI chief is the new boss of Pakistan.
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Or they have been hit harder than the usual.
 
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Saaho said:
Hello Sir!

Is there something called "LAC" in Ladakh as far as IA goes? If yes, what is its formal defition and where it has been defined? Politicians have never defined it formally. They have signed treaties with that term but they have never shown what they mean by LAC ever. LAC was first used by Chinese in 1956 and Nehru - rightly so - rubbished it. China's LAC is same as their claim line from 1960 because they pushed us in '62. India's claim line was so called Johnson-line. This puts us civvies in a bit weird and confusing position when media calls out infiltration and occupation.

Best I have come across from military leadership is "our LAC SHOULD be same as Johnson line" or "Its a regression that we are talking about LAC, we should be talking about Johnson line". I agree with this idea.

I have a better idea, send a little bit of a party to interrupt and break the road connecting CPEC, into chinese territory. If our civilian leadership is not scared enough, this is one thing which will immediately rattle Chinese.
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LAC, for all purpose and intent, is the area which India & China had under actual control as of 1993. Unfortunately the Chinese more or less achieved their claims wef 1962 itself.

For Army, it is to stick to GoI position, which is not necessarily translating to actual control over the ground due to decades of nibbling away under successive governments, both congress and non congress including BJP.
 
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jetray said:
In war of bluff......
View attachment 16313
Unless we take action this needling will never stop. No risk no gain, we need to draw a redline for chinese behaviour.

India should refuse to talk with chinese quoting they never had border with china but only with tibet. We need to have more cards when we go to negotiating table. We bargain away most of it and then wonder why chinese keep coming back.
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When you put up the special forces insignia, you should also put up the biggest take aways of SF training - practice, plan & patience. :)
 
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ashdoc said:

Ladakh standoff: India-China military talks likely to focus on Pangong Lake clash, Chinese retreat in Galwan

The Lieutenant General-level talks are scheduled to take place on June 6 and are considered critical to end the deadlock. The Indian delegation will be led by Leh-based 14 Corp Commander.
www-indiatoday-in.cdn.ampproject.org

According to this report China has retreated 2 km in galwan region.
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I somehow do not trust Chinese. They will stay put but a bit back. Global times talked of an infiltration excercise. Most will call it bluff but I will take it seriously. PLA may have taken lessons from PA to infiltrate soldiers/terrorists even when a strong security grid is in position and the terrain across LAC has similar topography.
 
Falcon said:
When you put up the special forces insignia, you should also put up the biggest take aways of SF training - practice, plan & patience. :)
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hope patience does not turn to patient which needs treatment.
Our SFF had chinese squirming hope they still have their efficacy intact despite all uncertainty our politicians have thrown at it.
 
Some people call Chinese intrusion as Kargil

In Kargil , Pakistanis were FIRING ON OUR CONVOYS

Their aim was to stop our convoys and cut of the NH 1 from Siachen where our troops would have been Isolated

Here the Chinese are sitting and WATCHING quietly

While we keep Bringing Troops and Weapons to the front line

As long as they are only watching
We can not open Fire
 
jetray said:
Absolutely right, we are not allies just some shared interest. Very fact that US still persists with pakistan should not be forgotten.

Frankly we do not need IA to pin down pakistan, I think IN can do it once we take care of their submarines. Enforcing a Naval embargo on pakistan will have far more greater effect.
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Allying with them like French should be encouraged. The French have the most free foreign policy among the U.S allies and they do their own expeditions in Mali and other countries. Actually getting close and getting some technology transfer in industry and defense should be done. But avoid any system that needs extensive U.S oversight like THAAD of f35 for the air force. Keep in mind I'm all for f35 for the IN cause it's the one branch that uses the most numerous of the Amreeki maal
 
Saaho said:
Simple reason, it will be too many tonges in the fire simultaneously. HK, Taiwan, Corona Virus investigation, SCS.
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It could be taken as a one view. But you could never be certain. For example after parliament attack there was clear cut intent to go for war and there was mobilisation for it. But it all turned into mere posturing. Now please don't reckon the reasons for it because that is exactly my point. You could never know when a posturing would turn into a war or a war mobilisation turn into mere posturing. It is true for this situation too, for various reasons.
Saaho said:
Thats usually the perception everyone builds. "We didn't fire the first shot". Why do you think China is fighting as if it is 2020 BC and not AD?
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I am not talking about what happens on the ground but what is the intent of our political and military leadership. Presently they don't have any intent to start the conflict. If you don't believe me then please ask more informed members of this forum. And due to this attitude they are never going to attack first even if our adversaries do a war mobilisation instead of posturing ( how could you differentiate b/w two is something I can't comprehend, I confess).

Saaho said:
About airbases.
You do : To understand how much each player can control the theatre, you need to look at what they can bring in the conflict.
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Our war fighting capability has nothing to do here. After 65 we always had it. Even a secret document of CIA admitted just after 71 war that we have enough military capability to effectively win a two front war. But we didn't took advantage of it due to reluctance of our leadership. That is true for present time too.
Saaho said:
It is, its the asymmetric marriage between CN and PK. If it is a India-China conflict, there is going to be a Pakistan angle to it as well (not other way round btw). That brings USA / Quad in the picture. I do assume that Indian diplomats should have cut a half way decent deals in quad. I guess they would not public though.
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In present circumstances sir, we have the support of whole world to start a conflict with China, especially USA. But still we aren't doing it and letting them to increase their force level on our border. See?? The main problem is lack of pugnacity. We would always allow the enemy to attack first to attain a high moral ground ( for what purpose I don't know).
 
Quicksilver said:
isnt the CSD designed to include Pak's mobilisation? and Pak current mobilisation is aimed at a limited "offense" towards Kashmir not a "Defence" of full strength unleashed by India.
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Well sir, I agree that CSD is to swiftly strike Pak before it could counter mobilise. But that would happen only if we have a clear cut intention of striking Pakistan. In a situation where both of our enemies were mobilising before us we would do only counter mobilisation instead of starting an invasion.
 
randomradio said:
Yeah, as I pointed out, neither India nor China are moving their strike corps (India's MSC and the Chinese GAs from WTC). So whatever 'mobilisation' that's happening now is only with relation to the border troops. The problem is if the GAs from WTC start moving towards India's borders. Until that happens, it's all just posturing.
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Chinese presently have enough troops to start a small skirmish and then they would have all the time to move their troops from inlands to the border thanks to their excellent infra. Plus the mobilisation is not halted and they are getting more and more aggressive for instance they tried to infiltrate in Sikkim yesterday.
randomradio said:
Of course, the Chinese also have the War Zone Campaign concept, which involves the border troops pushing into Indian territory to fight a limited war, the same as India's Cold Start. But that's basically a declaration of war. Of course, I know very little about WZC to comment on it, but it's obvious if the Chinese start shooting, we will see quite a bit of action at the border, which Falcon is hoping happens. Post which IA/GoI will have to figure out the intent of the enemy in order to not get caught in a two-front war facing simultaneous attacks from 2 enemies. I don't believe the IA is going to sit around waiting to hand over the initiative to the Chinese.
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Of course if China starts shooting then we will answer it with all our might. I am cent percent sure about our victory too. But then again it is same what I am saying that we would allow them to shoot. Because if we go by your theory then we should have attacked Pakistan by now.
randomradio said:
The IAF needs a week to take action against the PA and PAF before mobilising against PLAAF, which they demonstrated using Ex Gaganshakti. So the sooner it happens, the better.
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Problem is, once PLAAF starts offensive against us then we would not have your 1 week and required resources to crush PAF.
The operation GAGANSHAKTI demonstrated our capability to quickly switch resources from Western border to eastern border and vice versa not what you have said which again proves the lack of resources required to crush PAF on one front and simultaneously holding against PLAAF on the other.
randomradio said:
Basically, what I'm saying is, if we are faced with a two-front situation, then we have to take the initiative and attack first, long before the Chinese finish deploying their forces.
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Yes, but we are not attacking see?
We won't do that. We lack the intent
 
You can't solely rely on firepower, because that's not the only thing which makes you win a skirmish, and those here who think it's ONLY military which wins a war, well they are fools. Big countries DO NOT engage in direct skirmish. They use third countries to shed their anger off. Simple Mahabharat trick. At least I expect professionals here to learn from their own scriptures before going outright when you have a doomed economy, pandemic all around and you are not sharing your part of pension or income knowing it will end up non-utilized as well. So before making big claims, ' hum yeh kardenge wo kardenge' look around you. There is a big social gap and one large scale skirmish will doom you to the core. What will India gain?

China has occupied all water resources in Tibet, they are thinking economically, and foolish military planners in India are thinking emotionally!! The lake in Aksai Chin , major area is within China, has any one ever thought why they are moving along the rivers and lakes? I am bl**dy damn sure, these foolish Indian military planners never thought so. They are just there to their 'moti buddhi'.

China will not stop at Aksai Chin, they are aiming for Nubra, Gangotri, , Upper Himalayas in Nepal and Glaciers in NE by using Pakistan to ruin Indian economy.
 
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In this article Lt Gen Panag says there are 7 intrusion points on the indian side of the lac in Galwan valley region.. If you look at his map, and compare it with Abhijit iyer mitra map from his article in print, you can see that Panag has marked the LAC further back, so that chinese positions are on Indian side.. Abhijit says as of now there is no intruison in Galwan valley region.Now where does the LAC really pass through in Galwan valley region. Can you find a GOI version of LAC in government website..

theprint.in

India’s Fingers have come under Chinese boots. Denial won’t help us

The Modi government and the military have gone into ‘denial’ about loss of territory, attributing the present situation to differing perceptions about the LAC.
theprint.in theprint.in

www.google.com

Chinese intrusion in Galwan lasted for two weeks before it was cleared by Indian troops

China has stopped or diverted the flow of Galwan waters, an action contrary to its assurance that it would not block waters of south and westward flowing rivers.
www.google.com www.google.com
 
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