LOC Flare up: Related news and Discussions

[screambowl]

No 45 yr old was involved directly in operation. Mind you, the team on the ground had flexibility in terms of being able to take an assessment for themselves. Once they were off the heli, there was no one to control their moves.

They are the ones who have set the rules. Just like on 27th Feb 2019, Now you are here to save their faces. Not every time!!
There are many ways to keep the operation cost minimum and still be effective.

If there is hand to hand combat as per news, this means those tangs were equally physically fit and robust.

Sir hum log bewkoof nahi hai, we also understand what is going on. Bad luck sirf Indian faujio k sath hota hai? Just like 27th Feb SOP problem, now again SOP problem.

Innovate Motivate and Invade!!! Jab tak aapke fauji log yeh nahi seekhenge tab tak aise bad luck hotey rahenge.

Firing LMG or other weapons from heptors would be considered gunships and we are not supposed to use air power against militants/terrorists..... Thats the SOP

Not every time they follow SOP. And this is why IAF shot down its own heli. SOPs are only followed while fighting the enemy!

 

[BlackOpsIndia]

Firing LMG or other weapons from heptors would be considered gunships and we are not supposed to use air power against militants/terrorists

We should also ask for passport or Aadhar card before every encounter from militants, get it verified in Delhi via speed post only then should we start encounter next time.

While the speed post is in transit soldiers trapping the militants can play antakshari with locals, we will win hearts and minds and keep human rights tok, win-win.

 

[screambowl]

Really? What physiology is that? I am keen on discussing this one.

When we were kids and used to play and get hurt elders used to put snow in case of bleeding. Cold temp tends to trigger some proteins which induce blood clotting. You are an IAF pilot aren't you?

 

[Saaho]

Because we have politicians and bureaucrats who do not know the front end of a rifle from its rear and decide the policy directive.

Lets give them a loaded rifle and let the problem solve itself. Just teach them about trigger.

 

[Lolwa]

Okay.

Saar if you are talking about harop . That is more like a loitering munition.The IAF would not waste such a system on some jihadis.
I am talking about drones in the class of predator. Our heron's are only used for surveillance and we haven't mated spike or hellfire to them also we don't even have them for aerial use .Drone use in general is not publicised by the Indian armed forces. And we don't even have any hellfire equivalent Israeli/Indian that can be used by our heron's. If there is some UAV used offensively atleast name the platform instead of the smug ok.

 

[screambowl]

Saar if you are talking about harop . That is more like a loitering munition.The IAF would not waste such a system on some jihadis.
I am talking about drones in the class of predator. Our heron's are only used for surveillance and we haven't mated spike or hellfire to them also we don't even have them for aerial use .Drone use in general is not publicised by the Indian armed forces. And we don't even have any hellfire equivalent Israeli/Indian that can be used by our heron's. If there is some UAV used offensively atleast name the platform instead of the smug ok.

You need to expand the circumference and realize why Pakistan uses these tangos. One motive is to analyses India's fire power and training capabilities and improvise themselves. So India can't use what it has for China or Pakistan military. Helis still are feasible option when required. Should do trials.

 

[randomradio]

Nothing stopped the Commander from executing a stand off hit using airborne weapons .. based off the helicopter in terms of use of sniper/assault rifle from air.

There are no repercussions to taking the initiative that way?

 

[nair]

Nope. All troops along the High altitude regions have similar experience. Also, Siachen is relatively hard ice due to being a glacier, until and unless fresh snowfall takes place. This area is bereft of snow with smooth hills and broader valleys with less steep inclines

If i may add, the snow is melting too.....

 

[nair]

Combined this with Su30 not engaging targets even when fired upon by intruding enemy.

That was ROE, not SOP..... ROE can be changed in a sec looking at the scenario available in the area of engagement....... SOP's are decided after lot of deliberation, testing and reworking, and will take years to make some changes........

 

[Hellfire]

Should vary to a large extent between both

In a plain ice field, for example in arctic, yes. But in mountains with forested regions and snow, our standard camouflage dress merges quite well as a black spec from far off, quite in common with a bush, stone, rock, tree stump which dots the landscape.

So not much of a difference in it.

 

[Hellfire]

They are the ones who have set the rules. Just like on 27th Feb 2019, Now you are here to save their faces. Not every time!!
There are many ways to keep the operation cost minimum and still be effective.

If there is hand to hand combat as per news, this means those tangs were equally physically fit and robust.

Sir hum log bewkoof nahi hai, we also understand what is going on. Bad luck sirf Indian faujio k sath hota hai? Just like 27th Feb SOP problem, now again SOP problem.

Okay

The snow was loose and the troopers actually slipped and fell literally on the militants.

I am sure you have tremendous experience of fighting at 1 meter distance with an enemy who is static and you who have slipped and are trying to regain your balance as you land just in front of the enemy ....

aap ke anubhav ke saamne poori SF aur bhartiye sena ghutne tek ti hai

 

[Hellfire]

When we were kids and used to play and get hurt elders used to put snow in case of bleeding. Cold temp tends to trigger some proteins which induce blood clotting. You are an IAF pilot aren't you?

Like I said for army now, aapke anubhav ke saamne sare doctor ghutne tek te hain

And no I am not IAF

 

[Hellfire]

There are no repercussions to taking the initiative that way?

A successful outcome would have hardly left anyone in position to question. Successful out come would have been zero own and all terrorists eliminated

 

[Hellfire]

That was ROE, not SOP..... ROE can be changed in a sec looking at the scenario available in the area of engagement....... SOP's are decided after lot of deliberation, testing and reworking, and will take years to make some changes........

Exactly. Fine distinction oft missed by people.

 

[Hellfire]

One rationale why the SOP was made to prevent introduction of Gunships was perhaps due to the understanding that use of same in valley may lead to collateral damage which may result in introduction of MANPADs into the theater and further escalate the violence.

Also, armed helicopters can not be in vicinity of LC. But it is this latter aspect that allows flexibility of approach as I am not saying we should use gunships. What I am saying is that the militants, who had been visually acquired even by the helis once on scene, could have been eliminated from fire from helicopter by team on board. This was not permitted.

That was pretty stupid.

 

[_Anonymous_]

Okay

The snow was loose and the troopers actually slipped and fell literally on the militants.

I am sure you have tremendous experience of fighting at 1 meter distance with an enemy who is static and you who have slipped and are trying to regain your balance as you land just in front of the enemy ....

aap ke anubhav ke saamne poori SF aur bhartiye sena ghutne tek ti hai

Why don't you ban the fool? If not for impertinence than for his stupid patter. I'm more than convinced that Kshitij Sharma & his various avataars were more agreeable than this buffoon & this comparison is actually insulting to Kshitij Sharma.

 

[BlackOpsIndia]

One rationale why the SOP was made to prevent introduction of Gunships was perhaps due to the understanding that use of same in valley may lead to collateral damage which may result in introduction of MANPADs into the theater and further escalate the violence.

Pakistan used tanks, gunships and even carpet bombing of Baloch, why didn't we saw MANPAD in Baloochistan and FATA sir? However when faced with similar strikes Taliban used MANPAD liberally to target Russian planes.

Also why didn't Russia supplied MANPAD to Taliban to attack NATO and US? Is there some kind of informal agreement or understanding? Why didn't that understanding applied to Baloochistan and FATA.

Also, armed helicopters can not be in vicinity of LC

Do Helicopter also follow that 10km from LOC airspace limit? All helicopters or is there relaxation for cargo, logistics ones?

 

[randomradio]

A successful outcome would have hardly left anyone in position to question. Successful out come would have been zero own and all terrorists eliminated

Okay, so an unsuccessful outcome would mean the commander is stuck at Lt Col rank forever, even if he is General material? Point being his future career prospects are hit permanently.

 

[randomradio]

Pakistan used tanks, gunships and even carpet bombing of Baloch, why didn't we saw MANPAD in Baloochistan and FATA sir?

Too much offtopic stuff. But since it concerns Pakistan, it's fine.

We don't see MANPADs in Baloch and FATA because Pakistan doesn't supply them with MANPADs. India does not finance terrorism in Pakistan, so Pakistan can use area effect weapons with impunity.

However when faced with similar strikes Taliban used MANPAD liberally to target Russian planes.

Pakistan supplied MANPADs.

Also why didn't Russia supplied MANPAD to Taliban to attack NATO and US?

Even the Russians don't like Taliban. They support Af govt. It's because of Russia that India could support Northern Alliance through Tajikistan. But recently, they have gotten closer to Taliban to deal with ISIS, but not to the extent that they will supply MANPADs to deal with NATO.

 

[STEPHEN COHEN]

This was not permitted.

That was pretty stupid.

Will there be an enquiry about this

Will accountability be fixed

5 men dying is not a big deal for Indian Govt and MOD bureaucracy

As was in the Case of getting new Sniper Guns , Unless 50 men die , Nothing will change

My point being that we bought 338 caliber and 50 BMG after loosing nearly 50 men over 2 years