LOC Flare up: Related news and Discussions

[Hellfire]

Drone tagging targets for artillery fire from the looks of it. Good stuff, should happen more frequently.

Its been happening for months. Am happy for once Army has decided to release footage.

Please recollect that had mentioned earlier that the only Surprise Day for us on 27 Feb 2019 was how quickly PAF vacated the air space to us as IAF's ROE was revised to weapons free all over J&K and PAF then moved into depth. This, coupled to the impunity with which our UAVs of SATA like Herons move across LC providing Target Acquisition and Bomb Damage Assessment in real time with absolutely no challenge by Pakistan, really surprised us.

 

[Hellfire]

Any details of it, without giving out too much as to what did we undertake, where, when & with the results.

Nope. Sorry. Can't. It does not exist and it stays that ways. Another 20 years ... maybe

 

[_Anonymous_]

Its been happening for months. Am happy for once Army has decided to release footage.

Please recollect that had mentioned earlier that the only Surprise Day for us on 27 Feb 2019 was how quickly PAF vacated the air space to us as IAF's ROE was revised to weapons free all over J&K and PAF then moved into depth. This, coupled to the impunity with which our UAVs of SATA like Herons move across LC providing Target Acquisition and Bomb Damage Assessment in real time with absolutely no challenge by Pakistan, really surprised us.

Can't this be reciprocated by Pakistan @UAVs? After all they have them too even if we dominate the airspace. A quick ingress for a couple of kms within our territory to map the location of our artillery or troops & relaying the same to their artillery positions require a couple of minutes- too little reaction time for our fighter aircraft systems or helos to take off & effect a kill.

 

[Hellfire]

Can't this be reciprocated by Pakistan @UAVs? After all they have them too even if we dominate the airspace. A quick ingress for a couple of kms within our territory to map the location of our artillery or troops & relaying the same time their artillery positions require a couple of minutes- too little reaction time for our fighter aircraft systems or helos to take off & effect a kill.

It can and is ... but not for fire support, more to support ingress of militants.

The problem for Pakistanis today is that the IA has way too much ammunition to expend if they trouble any point. It is now very frequent to see India launch fire assaults even if there is some action by their minions in hinterland.

The policy is of imposing disproportionate costs on the Pakistanis now.

 

[Gautam]

Its been happening for months. Am happy for once Army has decided to release footage.

Please recollect that had mentioned earlier that the only Surprise Day for us on 27 Feb 2019 was how quickly PAF vacated the air space to us as IAF's ROE was revised to weapons free all over J&K and PAF then moved into depth. This, coupled to the impunity with which our UAVs of SATA like Herons move across LC providing Target Acquisition and Bomb Damage Assessment in real time with absolutely no challenge by Pakistan, really surprised us.

How deep is this from the LoC ? How much further can we put our drones uncontested ? We really ought to start employing weaponised drones if the free reign is continued. Not sure if that would be as economical as artillery though.

 

[Hellfire]

How deep is this from the LoC ? How much further can we put our drones uncontested ? We really ought to start employing weaponised drones if the free reign is continued. Not sure if that would be as economical as artillery though.

Yes. That is the case. That is why the Heron TP which were inducted last year have seen only 1 trial in action till date. No further

This is the answer @Lolwa over our armed drones.

 

[Jaymax]

Yes. That is the case. That is why the Heron TP which were inducted last year have seen only 1 trial in action till date. No further

This is the answer @Lolwa over our armed drones.

With respect to the fire missions in Kashmir, is the objective just to raise the costs for Pakistan or is there a systematic degrading of their capabilities as well?

 

[Hellfire]

With respect to the fire missions in Kashmir, is the objective just to raise the costs for Pakistan or is there a systematic degrading of their capabilities as well?

There is a Catch 22 situation which India is in forever. While we would love to do something drastic and decisive about the troublesome neighbour, the fact is that we simply do not have an answer that sees peace at the end of the day.

The most demanded option - that of complete invasion and destruction of the Pakistani Terror State, although well intentioned and justified umbrage of our citizens, is an option that has greater costs to the results achieved, which shall still be temporary in nature.

A hypothetical invasion and subsequent destruction of Pakistani state, with barest of costs in terms of manpower, material, economy and actual destruction of own areas, will still result in the dilemma of having to vacate the territories, in which case, a disgraced and defeated army will be too weak and this will give the inherent sectarianism there to rise to fore with space for Taliban, AQ, ISIS to gain hold and then, after consolidation, get after us, or, if we continue to occupy, will allow a rallying point for the local fundamentalized population to unify in their objective of throwing India out, just like US in Iraq.
The overall costs will be thousands of times than what it costs us right now.

Nuclear Bombs across the territories is a theoretical option which will wipe off this problem ...

But that is only something theoretical

So, the only way forward is to keep the costs for Pakistan high, economic ones, that will see a degradation of their capabilities over a sustained period of time.

Much like Kautilya's famous thorn and buttermilk story.

 

[randomradio]

Its been happening for months. Am happy for once Army has decided to release footage.

Please recollect that had mentioned earlier that the only Surprise Day for us on 27 Feb 2019 was how quickly PAF vacated the air space to us as IAF's ROE was revised to weapons free all over J&K and PAF then moved into depth. This, coupled to the impunity with which our UAVs of SATA like Herons move across LC providing Target Acquisition and Bomb Damage Assessment in real time with absolutely no challenge by Pakistan, really surprised us.

They used their best against us and managed to do nothing. Now they don't have a choice.

The reason is as simple as specs really matter. And as for the man behind the machine superiority they profess, those men have all retired from PAF service.

 

[BlackOpsIndia]

This has been the norm since Balakote. Have you seen any let up from their side? We have anonymous accounts on Twitter giving us details on the massive strikes we've undertaken with the Paxtanis begging from mercy, time & again. Yet within a month, we see another outrage in Kashmir, either in the hinterland or the border & the same routine is repeated . Ad nauseam. Have we ever paused to take stock of our methods & gauged it's efficacy?

Most of these anonymous accounts have reported exaggerated numbers and sometimes completely incorrect reports. Even then they are mostly reporting about small/minor incidents, only 2-3 times have we seen correct news of massive assaults but number of kills were either too small or unclear.

We should pound them every Friday and Tuesday like this for few months. One ATGM and thousands of rounds of bullets on fortified bunker that killed/injured one or two won't cut it.

Another Indian "Cheeni drone" bites the dust

View attachment 15227

You got a better DG ISPR, last joker acted like some high school kid and was an constant source of amusement, we miss him, given that Pakistan and Pakistanis are record holders in fake degree you may want to check if he ever graduated high school.

 

[randomradio]

Nuclear Bombs across the territories is a theoretical option which will wipe off this problem ...

Dunno why it's theoretical. The US and USSR didn't care.

The most demanded option - that of complete invasion and destruction of the Pakistani Terror State, although well intentioned and justified umbrage of our citizens, is an option that has greater costs to the results achieved, which shall still be temporary in nature.

A hypothetical invasion and subsequent destruction of Pakistani state, with barest of costs in terms of manpower, material, economy and actual destruction of own areas, will still result in the dilemma of having to vacate the territories, in which case, a disgraced and defeated army will be too weak and this will give the inherent sectarianism there to rise to fore with space for Taliban, AQ, ISIS to gain hold and then, after consolidation, get after us, or, if we continue to occupy, will allow a rallying point for the local fundamentalized population to unify in their objective of throwing India out, just like US in Iraq.
The overall costs will be thousands of times than what it costs us right now.

I agree the costs will be greater. Although I suppose this comes into the picture only if the costs of total war, mayhem and destruction are cheaper than the continued existence of Pakistan.

But if we have decided to go to war, then why not just continue occupying the territories, including Afghanistan's territories? There's nothing in the rulebook we will write saying territories must be vacated.

We can create a new RR force with many times more troops in order to deal with the insurgency that follows. In the meantime, this will allow all the concerned future govts with new constitutions to build a solid foundation around education and development. Then create new armies within these countries to take over the job of the overseas RR, with officers and soldiers less inclined to have a happy relationship with the more toxic forms of Islam.

 

[vvabhiram]

There is a Catch 22 situation which India is in forever. While we would love to do something drastic and decisive about the troublesome neighbour, the fact is that we simply do not have an answer that sees peace at the end of the day.

The most demanded option - that of complete invasion and destruction of the Pakistani Terror State, although well intentioned and justified umbrage of our citizens, is an option that has greater costs to the results achieved, which shall still be temporary in nature.

A hypothetical invasion and subsequent destruction of Pakistani state, with barest of costs in terms of manpower, material, economy and actual destruction of own areas, will still result in the dilemma of having to vacate the territories, in which case, a disgraced and defeated army will be too weak and this will give the inherent sectarianism there to rise to fore with space for Taliban, AQ, ISIS to gain hold and then, after consolidation, get after us, or, if we continue to occupy, will allow a rallying point for the local fundamentalized population to unify in their objective of throwing India out, just like US in Iraq.
The overall costs will be thousands of times than what it costs us right now.

Nuclear Bombs across the territories is a theoretical option which will wipe off this problem ...

But that is only something theoretical

So, the only way forward is to keep the costs for Pakistan high, economic ones, that will see a degradation of their capabilities over a sustained period of time.

Much like Kautilya's famous thorn and buttermilk story.

Will this stop us from acquiring PoJ&K also ?

 

[_Anonymous_]

Dunno why it's theoretical. The US and USSR didn't care.



I agree the costs will be greater. Although I suppose this comes into the picture only if the costs of total war, mayhem and destruction are cheaper than the continued existence of Pakistan.

But if we have decided to go to war, then why not just continue occupying the territories, including Afghanistan's territories? There's nothing in the rulebook we will write saying territories must be vacated.

We can create a new RR force with many times more troops in order to deal with the insurgency that follows. In the meantime, this will allow all the concerned future govts with new constitutions to build a solid foundation around education and development. Then create new armies within these countries to take over the job of the overseas RR, with officers and soldiers less inclined to have a happy relationship with the more toxic forms of Islam.

If we are to take back PoJ&K & we've learnt nothing from our CI ops over the past 70 years particularly the past 3 decades in J&K, we'd follow your advice. Otherwise we'd do what the Myanmarese have done in Rakhine , though they too have executed their plan in half measure albeit they weren't in a situation of war which gives us the perfect cover to execute our plans, should we undertake such a venture , however cold blooded they are, without being squeamish or apologetic about it.

 

[lcafanboy]

Will this stop us from acquiring PoJ&K also ?

Although I and all of us here would like to aquire PoJ&K the logical question is, would we like to acquire a much more RABID radicalised population of about 10million people to add to our woes? Remember a much smaller population of Kashmiris is taking a toll on our resources...

 

[Sulla84]

First time I'm hearing of it. Any details?

In December Qureshi repeatedly wrote love letters to UN Chief once saying fence was cut for possible invasion, other time saying India put missiles in kashmir. Also, there was much action ,along the loc at the time beheading and all. On Jan 15, China convened the UNSC, and the topic of Fence being cut by India, was discussed by China. With US, saying why would India, do it after erecting it after incurring material costs. I simply connected the dots, as it was apparent that Pakistan was afraid of something happening... and roped in China to put pressure on India..

 

[_Anonymous_]

In December Qureshi repeatedly wrote love letters to UN Chief once saying fence was cut for possible invasion, other time saying India put missiles in kashmir. Also, there was much action ,along the loc at the time beheading and all. On Jan 15, China convened the UNSC, and the topic of Fence being cut by India, was discussed by China. With US, saying why would India, do it after erecting it after incurring material costs. I simply connected the dots, as it was apparent that Pakistan was afraid of something happening... and roped in China to put pressure on India..

Seems implausible. I would put it down to either another example of pussilanimity in Delhi or lack of ability on behalf of the IA or both.

 

[Deathstar]

@safriz a Quadcopter? Seriously? Was it a free gift China gave u with underwear masks??

 

[nair]

Will this stop us from acquiring PoJ&K also ?

The day GOI is ready to pay the cost (economical, diplomatic, Human loss, equipment loss) for that, PoJ&K will be ours, But i dont think any govt in near future will be ready to pay such high costs,

 

[BlackOpsIndia]

A hypothetical invasion and subsequent destruction of Pakistani state, with barest of costs in terms of manpower, material, economy and actual destruction of own areas, will still result in the dilemma of having to vacate the territories, in which case, a disgraced and defeated army will be too weak and this will give the inherent sectarianism there to rise to fore with space for Taliban, AQ, ISIS to gain hold and then, after consolidation, get after us, or, if we continue to occupy, will allow a rallying point for the local fundamentalized population to unify in their objective of throwing India out, just like US in Iraq.
The overall costs will be thousands of times than what it costs us right now.

But sir in Middle East, full of expendable fighters and even Afghanistan it doesn't spill over into any proper country.

Going hypothetical, after invasion we could vacate only those areas where a particular ethnicity is dominant, install a local war lord presenting ourselves as liberators from Punjabis mullahs like we did in Bangladesh.

How will Taliban get hold when their trainer Pakistan won't exist anymore? Won't they be more inclined to negotiate something with India when their patron is no more?

We have all the right tools, we have Deoband, we have Ahle Sunnat both combined will comprise most muslims of Pakistan, both HQ situated in India. We have great amount of good will with their spiritual father UAE and Saudia. We can play to their personal greed, personal rivalry, religion, sect and keep them engaged into one another.

Multiple states like Nepal engaged with one another, weak, looking for assistance from India, having religious leaders in India will possess less harm than military state of Pakistan that control so many resources just to attack India.

If some state or a militia inside goes rogue we can clean it up going inside the territory with or without consent of that state.

The thinking that well structured Pakistani military is less inclined in attacking India and keeps terrorists in line, prevent them from attacking India is flawed. It's that military that's problem.

If Hafiz Saeed was in Maldives or Bhutan or Nepal did we not have him killed and wipe his organization out than under protection from Pakistan army?

There will be anarchy, there will be chaos, quite possibly militant groups will form but they won't have organized support of trained army, won't have protection of trained army. Once they start to get taste of carpet bombing they will be more amenable to make deal with India.

We may have to pay more but we will have control over more resources, also with Pakistan gone we may not need to spend this much on defence down the line, more like investment into future.

It's that organized structure backed with billions of dollars and unlimited supply of brainwashed military grade males that is main strength of enemy of India, they control everything, even religion as per their need. Once this is disrupted, gone, we will have less problems to deal with. I don't know how we calculate cost of not doing anything to destroy it.

 

[vikata]

not even a mention of the so called indian attack in the pakistani media ,pdf deleted all the threads .it was complete silence till now.

now that ISPR has released a statement that only four civilian including a 15 year old girl has been hurt.maybe they will show something on tv/print


this shows clearly the state's total and ruthless control over the news in pakistan.kudos to the army that it still keep pounding them hard despite all the shenanigans by the pak.
and we have ppl here who tends to believe their version of the story.pakistan simply present a facade to hide the truth