Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning and F-22 'Raptor' : News & Discussion
- Thread starter Nick
- Start date
"IRST is about as threatening to stealth aircraft as bringing a knife to a gun fight. It cannot reasonably be used to “track” or fire weapons on a “stealth” aircraft.
First, there are real-world limitations to IRST that make it practically useless in real life. I’m not aware of any modern fighter in a dogfight being successfully shot down using IRST; ever.
See IRST is usually a fixed forward sensor with a very narrow view of only a couple degrees; like this.
Imagine taping a straw to the dashboard of your car, driving down a dirt road, and trying to read the license plate of the car in front of you by looking through the straw, while driving, and not getting into an accident. You can’t move the straw to look around, you have to turn your whole car and hope you can figure out what you’re looking at through the straw.
You can imagine why IRST isn’t a very practical system.
Second, it’s easily blocked or deflected by weather, clouds, mist, rain, etc. Basically, if it isn’t nice clear day, it won’t work well or at all.
Third, even when it works, and it isn’t blocked by clouds, mist, or other weather it’s practical effective range for engaging a target is ~30 km; assuming you can even find it in that soda straw.
By contrast, a “stealth” plane with AESA Radar can see and fire on targets ~120 km away.
Fourth, now there’s the question of the IR countermeasures employed by the “stealth” aircraft. These can vary substantially, and their effectiveness is usually a very closely guarded secret, but we can easily assume that a “stealth” aircraft won’t be as easy to detect at the maximum IRST ranges; further reducing the effectiveness of this system.
So yes, in theory, if you line it up just right, and the weather is clear, and the “stealth” plane isn’t actively evading, and it hasn’t already shot you down from 4x further away, and it doesn’t have very good IR signature suppressing technology, you might be able to detect a “stealth” aircraft with IRST.
In practice, in the real world, you’ll have more luck trying to read license plates on a busy freeway using a straw taped to the dashboard of your car."
Yet all stealth planes including the F-35 are equipped with an IRST. Yeah , makes total sense .
IRST is amongst the technologies necessary for the future of stealth detection. But GaN radars are gonna be even more important because the initial detection at longer ranges has to come using radar before the IRST is cued towards the area of interest.
Apparently both LCA Mk2 and MKI MLU are gonna come with GaN.
Japanese defense budget released - they will buy 12 more F-35s, 8 A versions and 4 B versions - and will also will make a longer range Type 12 Ashm which could be launched from the ground, and potentially the P-1.
www.tokyo-np.co.jp
防衛費5.4兆円 ８年連続で過去最大を更新 概算要求の主要兵器を全取得へ 軍拡がさらに加速 ：東京新聞デジタル
政府が２４日に閣議決定した２０２２年度予算案で、防衛費は前年度当初予算から５８３億円増（１・１％増）の５兆４００５億円に上り、８年連続...
One more
"See IRST is usually a fixed forward sensor with a very narrow view of only a couple degrees; like this"
That show that WHohe is not even able to make proper picture with it's own camera, even the word "zoom" is unknown to him. Then if you speak of fisheye that must be a concept totally unknow to him.
An other example. As a true subjective person he think that a cloud can block IR when everywhere it is said that cloud attenuate the contrast ... Then of course he is not able to understand what the graph above is about.
As always when spmeone is not able to use date correctly, he's not able to make a proper conclusion. Whohe is blablating without even knowing what he is telling about. See for example this :
"See IRST is usually a fixed forward sensor with a very narrow view of only a couple degrees; like this"
That show that WHohe is not even able to make proper picture with it's own camera, even the word "zoom" is unknown to him. Then if you speak of fisheye that must be a concept totally unknow to him.
An other example. As a true subjective person he think that a cloud can block IR when everywhere it is said that cloud attenuate the contrast ... Then of course he is not able to understand what the graph above is about.
The tech is there and in production now. They could order it tomorrow, if there was a need. When is the next radar update planned for the f-35? My guess is it will go in then.
Any new hardware will happen post Block 4. And they are expecting B4 to be completed around 2027-29.
Well, recently it was told that B4 would need a new, more powerful engine (e.g. AETD, but it is not B version compatible) for electric generation. They expected FOC about ten years ago also...
A new display and computer related upgrades have been revealed for TR3, but there's nothing about making changes to the core avionics. B4 is about making existing stuff work.
They are confident of achieving their 2027 deadline though.
Anyway the urgency to change the engine is quite evident. But it's unclear if older jets will get the new engine. Maybe the version with the new engine will be the beginning of the Block 5.
They also can be used for what is called wedge jamming, preventing enemy jet to get a radar lock on you.
But it helps in early detection of potentially hostile target. So gives a huge advantage to the jet(specially to LO and VLO type ) who then can sneak into the hostile target and shoot it down either using IR or Radar guided missiles.
It should be able to do everything a dedicated EW suite can. A radar adds to your jamming resources, particularly in the X band.
The Pentagon is exploring its options for a more efficient and powerful F-35 engine
Upgrades and new engine tech are under development, but will the military have the money?
www.defensenews.com
"Lt. Gen. Eric Fick, the Pentagon’s F-35 program executive, has previously acknowledged that the F-35 engine will likely need increased power and thermal management to accommodate Block 4 technologies."
So a plane without FOC already need a new engine...
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The Pentagon is exploring its options for a more efficient and powerful F-35 engine
Upgrades and new engine tech are under development, but will the military have the money?
"Lt. Gen. Eric Fick, the Pentagon’s F-35 program executive, has previously acknowledged that the F-35 engine will likely need increased power and thermal management to accommodate Block 4 technologies."
So a plane without FOC already need a new engine...
Right. IMHO, this is because both their main adversaries will have superior engines on superior jets before the NGAD arrives. So the AETP is to help the F-35 catch up with a superior engine.
The Su-57 and J-20 with their definitive engines should have unrefuelled ranges of well over 5000Km, along with twice the internal weapons payload. There's no way the F-35 can compete with those numbers.
One of the major drawbacks of the F-35 is the lower than necessary combat radius in East Asia. So the 25% increase in efficiency should help make up for the difference against an enemy which has jets with enough fuel that can reach them even with a standard engine.
So I think this has less to do with engine troubles, 'cause P&W believes the F135 can see a 10% increase in thrust with easy-to-do modification for cheap, and more to do with catching up with enemy tech.
