Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning and F-22 'Raptor' : News & Discussion

[randomradio]

Sources pls.....

Two members already posted the sources. That's what we were discussing.

 

[randomradio]

https://www.ilmailuliitto.fi/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/rafale_finlande_13x18_1219_pap_v7.pdf

It is said that the surge mode is for 350 hours/month and 1000 hours / years much, much more than 10%. And these figures has been demonstrated.

Forgot to add that these numbers do not mean a 100% increase in surge. 'Cause we don't know the baseline number, unless you have it.

For example, if AAE wanted 4 sorties a day surge up to a particular range and Dassault delivered 5 sorties a day, that's a 25% increase.

 

[randomradio]

Rafale is just a good 4.5 generation fighter. No essential difference from J-16 and J-10C

As per the IAF, the Rafale is 200% superior to the MKI. And as per what we learned in Malaysia, the SH B2 was slightly inferior to the MKI.

And the Pentagon's goal was to make the F-35A 400% superior to the F-16 B40. And the MKI is 30% superior to the F-16 B50.

I think you can see where I'm going with this.

 

[Rajput Lion]

All 4.5 generation fighters are 4 generation improvements, nothing new, to be honest the F 15 has extremely high t / w and extremely low wing loads,Still a dangerous opponent, and as for MKI, T / W is probably the lowest in the entire Flanker family

And yet an MKI outflies amlost every other plane, lol.

F-15 is no match to MKI or Rafale, period. Rafale is good enough to defeat any other plane in BVR/WVR in a trained force' hands. MKI, once upgraded, will once again become India's numero uno ASF until we replace it with a heavy stealth ASF.

 

[Rajput Lion]

As front friend said, the fuel pipe and IRST alone are much more than 0.1m ²

They are haters of Rafale, don't take them seriously. Rafale clean frontal RCS in X-Band could be even lower than 0.1m2. It could be 0.05m2 for what we know. The problem is lack of IWB, so when you load it up with weapons and tanks, it is not stealth and can be detected by modern radars. This is where F-35 is much better than Rafale.

 

[Innominate]

And yet an MKI outflies amlost every other plane, lol.

F-15 is no match to MKI or Rafale, period. Rafale is good enough to defeat any other plane in BVR/WVR in a trained force' hands. MKI, once upgraded, will once again become India's numero uno ASF until we replace it with a heavy stealth ASF.

Lol. F-15EX and F-15E will eat a Rafale. Their EW and SA is superior than what Rafale has.

 

[LX1111]

They are haters of Rafale, don't take them seriously. Rafale clean frontal RCS in X-Band could be even lower than 0.1m2. It could be 0.05m2 for what we know. The problem is lack of IWB, so when you load it up with weapons and tanks, it is not stealth and can be detected by modern radars. This is where F-35 is much better than Rafale.

If the Rafale can reach 0.1, then the J 10C can also call itself a stealth fighter, After all, the DSI inlet is much stealthier than the pitot inlet
Well, as they say, the refueling probe can cause severe cusp scattering, not to mention the Rafale's Between the inlet and the fuselage,Is also a huge source of scattering

 

[LX1111]

And yet an MKI outflies amlost every other plane, lol.

F-15 is no match to MKI or Rafale, period. Rafale is good enough to defeat any other plane in BVR/WVR in a trained force' hands. MKI, once upgraded, will once again become India's numero uno ASF until we replace it with a heavy stealth ASF.

MKI air weight is nearly 20T, the engine is only 12500KN, how good is the maneuverability?
Don't talk about vector thrust, canard, f 15 one climb is enough to crush you

 

[LX1111]

As per the IAF, the Rafale is 200% superior to the MKI. And as per what we learned in Malaysia, the SH B2 was slightly inferior to the MKI.

And the Pentagon's goal was to make the F-35A 400% superior to the F-16 B40. And the MKI is 30% superior to the F-16 B50.

I think you can see where I'm going with this

What is SHB 2
I think you have to come up with specific data, not this 30% . 200% is mostly pure propaganda
J 10c had a 6: 0 exchange ratio with J 10A
Is J 10C 600% of J 10A?

 

[LX1111]

MKI air weight is nearly 20T, the engine is only 12500KN, how good is the maneuverability?
Don't talk about vector thrust, canard, f 15 one climb is enough to crush you

No, I looked at 18900KG,This is without a vectoring nozzle and a canard，For reference, the J-11B at the same thrust,Only 16170KG

 

[randomradio]

What is SHB 2
I think you have to come up with specific data, not this 30% . 200% is mostly pure propaganda
J 10c had a 6: 0 exchange ratio with J 10A
Is J 10C 600% of J 10A?

SH B2 = Super Hornet Block 2.

The J-10A is not a very good standard for comparison. Just because the J-10C got an AESA upgrade and can now very easily defeat the J-10A only tells me more about the J-10A being a bad jet.

The IAF believes the Rafale is a generation ahead compared to the MKI. And I don't believe the MKI and J-16 are that much different in air combat. With the same weapons, both will likely kill each other at the same rate at BVR. But the MKI cannot defeat the Rafale in BVR. The MKI, J-10C and J-16 are roughly the same in ability.

 

[LX1111]

The IAF believes the Rafale is a generation ahead compared to the MKI. And I don't believe the MKI and J-16 are that much different in air combat. With the same weapons, both will likely kill each other at the same rate at BVR. But the MKI cannot defeat the Rafale in BVR. The MKI, J-10C and J-16 are roughly the same in ability

My understanding of MKI is very simple, a not so good 4-generation aircraft, mobility has been said above, Adding a bunch of fancy stuff without adding thrust is doomed to poor maneuverability
As for radar, don't think PESA is a good thing, purely because Russia in the early processing can not come up with a qualified PD antenna,
R 77 will not say, we all know

 

[LX1111]

The J-10A is not a very good standard for comparison. Just because the J-10C got an AESA upgrade and can now very easily defeat the J-10A only tells me more about the J-10A being a bad jet

J 10C from the radar, structure, engine, aerodynamic, engine have been greatly optimized, not you a AESA, can be summarized, As for WVR, few in India can compete with PL 10

 

[Rajput Lion]

Lol. F-15EX and F-15E will eat a Rafale. Their EW and SA is superior than what Rafale has.

Meteor will wipe the Eagle out before AIM120D reaches the Rafale.

If the Rafale can reach 0.1, then the J 10C can lso call itself a stealth fighter, After all, the DSI inlet is much stealthier than the pitot inlet
Well, as they say, the refueling probe can cause severe cusp scattering, not to mention the Rafale's Between the inlet and the fuselage,Is also a huge source of scattering

Rafale with weapons is not stealth. But it does have very low clean frontal RCS. This fact is acknowledged by most knowledgeable person.

MKI air weight is nearly 20T, the engine is only 12500KN, how good is the maneuverability?
Don't talk about vector thrust, canard, f 15 one climb is enough to crush you

No, I looked at 18900KG,This is without a vectoring nozzle and a canard，For reference, the J-11B at the same thrust,Only 16170KG
View attachment 27594

Dude, are you living in some la la land like Optimist and Innominate? 20 tons empty for MKI, lmfao. I already posted screenshot of "official" Su-30MKM(almost identical to our MKI), in which its empty weight came as 17.88 tons. As per RMAF OEW is 18.4 tons. Here is the screenshot:

Here is the link: https://www.researchgate.net/public...oyal_Malaysian_Air_Force_RMAF_Sukhoi_Su-30MKM

My understanding of MKI is very simple, a not so good 4-generation aircraft, mobility has been said above, Adding a bunch of fancy stuff without adding thrust is doomed to poor maneuverability
As for radar, don't think PESA is a good thing, purely because Russia in the early processing can not come up with a qualified PD antenna,
R 77 will not say, we all know

Lol. As per official RMAF document, their MKM is know to pull 12G+ maneuvers often. Planes like Typhoon, Rafale have been destroyed by MKI in close combat with HOBS and guns every single time in training exercises. Su-30MKM even forced F-22 to back-off. Your F-15 will be an easy meal for MKI in WVR.

Just pray that your J-20/J-16/J-10 don't meet MKI in WVR over the Himalayas cause you don't want to fight MKI there. MKI's weakness currently is in BVR combat vs LO fighters and we're addressing these problems in its upgrade to make it a J-20 killer in future. In dogfight with guns and HOBS it will have 9:1 advantage over our enemies.

J 10C from the radar, structure, engine, aerodynamic, engine have been greatly optimized, not you a AESA, can be summarized, As for WVR, few in India can compete with PL 10

PL-10 is good, but so is Python-5, ASRAAM and MICA-IR. Also never count out the goo' ol' Archer. It can still prove deadly in close combat.

 

[LX1111]

Dude, are you living in some la la land like Optimist and Innominate? 20 tons empty for MKI, lmfao. I already posted screenshot of "official" Su-30MKM(almost identical to our MKI), in which its empty weight came as 17.88 tons. As per RMAF OEW is 18.4 tons. Here is the screenshot

This is the first time I look at this picture, but I don't think this calculation is correct, the plane empty weight is not only each weight to add, but also to add oil, Hydraulic fluid, and the weight of the pilot，Plus the weight of the cannonball and the weight of the basic missile pylon，My data is from Sukhoi's official website. I don't know where his data came from

 

[Innominate]

Meteor will wipe the Eagle out before AIM120D reaches the Rafale.

F-15EX/E APG-82(v)1, most powerful AESA on a fighter and EPAWSS will get first look and first shot.

Rafale with weapons is not stealth. But it does have very low clean frontal RCS. This fact is acknowledged by most knowledgeable person.

You don't go to war clean numbnuts. F-18E blk2-3 clean is stealthier than your froggy plane but so what?

Dude, are you living in some la la land like Optimist and Innominate? 20 tons empty for MKI, lmfao. I already posted screenshot of "official" Su-30MKM(almost identical to our MKI), in which its empty weight came as 17.88 tons. As per RMAF OEW is 18.4 tons. Here is the screenshot:



View attachment 27595


Here is the link: https://www.researchgate.net/public...oyal_Malaysian_Air_Force_RMAF_Sukhoi_Su-30MKM

Lol. As per official RMAF document, their MKM is know to pull 12G+ maneuvers often. Planes like Typhoon, Rafale have been destroyed by MKI in close combat with HOBS and guns every single time in training exercises. Su-30MKM even forced F-22 to back-off. Your F-15 will be an easy meal for MKI in WVR.

Just pray that your J-20/J-16/J-10 don't meet MKI in WVR over the Himalayas cause you don't want to fight MKI there. MKI's weakness currently is in BVR combat vs LO fighters and we're addressing these problems in its upgrade to make it a J-20 killer in future. In dogfight with guns and HOBS it will have 9:1 advantage over our enemies.

PL-10 is good, but so is Python-5, ASRAAM and MICA-IR. Also never count out the goo' ol' Archer. It can still prove deadly in close combat.

Lol. Silly little Hornet...

You should see the video how quickly little hornet dispatches the MKM.

 

[LX1111]

Just pray that your J-20/J-16/J-10 don't meet MKI in WVR over the Himalayas cause you don't want to fight MKI there. MKI's weakness currently is in BVR combat vs LO fighters and we're addressing these problems in its upgrade to make it a J-20 killer in future. In dogfight with guns and HOBS it will have 9:1 advantage over our enemies.

Let's just say you're happy,

Rafale with weapons is not stealth. But it does have very low clean frontal RCS. This fact is acknowledged by most knowledgeable person

French propaganda and Indian fanaticism can't compete with the laws of physics

Rafale with weapons is not stealth. But it does have very low clean frontal RCS. This fact is acknowledged by most knowledgeable person

French propaganda and Indian fanaticism can't compete with the laws of physics

 

[LX1111]

Dude, are you living in some la la land like Optimist and Innominate? 20 tons empty for MKI, lmfao. I already posted screenshot of "official" Su-30MKM(almost identical to our MKI), in which its empty weight came as 17.88 tons. As per RMAF OEW is 18.4 tons. Here is the screenshot:

I suspect he's directly using the data of the old SU 35, which is a single-seat fighter ,18.4T Definitely not SU 30MKM of data

 

[Optimist]

Meteor will wipe the Eagle out before AIM120D reaches the Rafale.

Got a link that shows that the Rafale currently has meteor? It still doesn't have the radar for 200km
Aim-120d has a long range, the new aim-260 is longer, live fire testing in the summer of 2023. IOC not much longer

Aim-120d 160 km, 100 miles
Meteor 200 kilometres (110 nmi).
Aim-260 200 km (120 mi)

 

[LX1111]

Just pray that your J-20/J-16/J-10 don't meet MKI in WVR over the Himalayas cause you don't want to fight MKI there. MKI's weakness currently is in BVR combat vs LO fighters and we're addressing these problems in its upgrade to make it a J-20 killer in future. In dogfight with guns and HOBS it will have 9:1 advantage over our enemies.

If you don't say, what else is Russia working on Su 35. Su 57? Su 30sm is enough to kill America, actually, How much SU 30SM has lost in Ukraine,