Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning and F-22 'Raptor' : News & Discussion
- Thread starter Nick
- Start date
Are you for real? That is an official 'unclassified' RMAF document. Empty weight is 17.8 tons and OEW/MEW with two pilots, gun ammo, hydraulic oil etc. is 18.4 tons. MKI/MKM uses lots of composite vs old Su-35(Su-27M) and its nose profile is smaller too. Thus despite 2-seat cockpit it weighs similarly at 18.4 tons.
Now, if you don't accept it then it's upto you. I've give you as 'official' source as official it can be.
Russia is working on Su-30SM2, Su-35S and Su-57M. All are important for them to take on F-22 and F-35.
Still falls short to Meteor which has max 300kms range. Accept it that Rafale with Meteor will wipe out your Eagle 10 out of 10 times.
Rafale with SPECTRA will nullify your radar advantage and Meteor will do the rest.
Yeah, I agree but still even with a light air to air load, Rafale RCS would be quite less, of course not LO. And don't you ever forget about 'active cancellation'. If that works as it is claimed, all planes except F-22 are dead meat to the Rafale.
MKM pilot made a mistake and paid for it. Even your USN pilot admitted right at the beginning of this video that MKM killed Hornet multiple times and that MKM was as vicious dogfighter as F-22. F-15 is simply no match. Period.
Something like that. The aim-120d is going to be around for years to come with the aim-120d3 entering service soon. D3 is just software upgrade but some how it's going to have somewhat greater range than the D which hit at target 130+ miles.
The Aim-260 enters service this year and we still don't know what it looks like. US 4th gen fighters will have first dibs on the aim-260.
That's some number you just pulled out of your caca hole.
Lol. I don't think you have any clue.
Oy vey. Your "active cancellation" you Rafafle fanboys like to throw around is not going to help it against modern/advanced AESA with different and complex waveform and frequency in every pulse. It may work on fighters with older radars but not against APG-81, APG-77(v)1, APG-82(v)1, APG-79(v)4-GaN and APG-83(SABR). Rafale against Russian fighters and Pakistani F-16's I got no argument but against US fighters with these radars well now you're licking psychedelic frogs my boy.
Seems you didn't watch the video because the F-18 was 3 for 3. And MKM's are flown by Malaysia's top pilots so cut the crap.
Btw little hornets with two tanks have gun down Rafale's
The MKI is not underpowered. As an air superiority design which has not seen significant weight gain, it has more than sufficient thrust. It has pretty much the same rate of climb as the F-15C when you take into account fuel fraction. The F-15C's airframe is inferior to the MKI, for obvious reasons, being an older design. All other F-15 models like E and EX are much heavier and inferior to the MKI. Plus the MKI carries a lot more fuel. TVC provides a lot of advantages in saving fuel and reducing drag.
The MKI's radar is hybrid-PESA. It works like a PESA during transmission, but during reception it works like an AESA, so it processes signals similar to AESA. But I agree that it's time to upgrade the MKI's radar. Although Bars is old, it's still effective against old jets like the F-16, J-10C and J-16.
MKI is integrated with Derby ER and Astra Mk1.
Astra Mk2 is under trials.
It's just a simple refinement with a new engine and avionics, like what happened with the F-16.
With the AIM-120C, the F-16 B52 without AESA will still be able to challenge the F-16 B60 with AESA. But if the J-10A isn't able to challenge the J-10C even with the same weapon, then it's a problem with the J-10A. Obviously, the J-10C is not a stealth jet. You can expect both the Mirage 2000-5 Mk2 and F-16 B52 to be able to challenge the J-10C in BVR combat.
PL-10's Indian equivalents are the MICA IR, Python V and ASRAAM.
DRDO conducts maiden trial of Python-5 Air to Air Missile
Tejas, India's indigenous Light Combat Aircraft, added the 5th generation Python-5 Air-to-Air Missil
pib.gov.in
MBDA signs Indian ASRAAM contract
India's defence ministry has signed a £250 million ($428 million) contract with MBDA to equip its Sepecat/Hindustan Aeronautics Jaguar strike aircraft with the company's ASRAAM short-range air-to-air missile. A company source has confirmed the signing, but declined to provide any further specifics.
www.flightglobal.com
No. Our SFDR's max range is 340kms when fired at high altitude. Meteor being slightly smaller has 300kms max range. Being SFDR it can throttle its motor for :
1. More speed, less range,
2. More range, less speed.
Meteor is by far the best air to air missile currently. No AIM-120D or D3 can touch it. Get off your American false pedestal and accept the obvious, will ya....Sweetie?
Unfortunately for you, I've full clue unlike you or your Down Under friend, who thinks Rafale still doesn't have Meteor, lolol.
Honestly, Random has tried to explain how ACT works, but I'm not too sure myself about its efficacy against frequency agile LPI AESA radars.
I've watched that video when it came out. How easily you're ignoring the comment of the host that MKM is the toughest dogfighter other than Raptor, is simply hilarious. I realize, your false American pride doesn't allow you to accept that any plane could be as good as your "invincible" Raptor. But MKM forced your Raptors to back off every single time during Cope Taufan 2014 in guns only dogfight. Fact. If R-73s were involved then MKM would have humped your Raptors even more easily.
Hornet has great alpha. In right hands it's a deadly WVR fighter. But its high speed and high altitude performance sucks. Same with Super Hornet.
Last edited:
@randomradio
There is some internet chatter that US is offering F-35s directly under gov to gov deal for MRFA. That is also to counter similar offer made by France. I always myself thought MRFA was a direct shoot between Rafale and F-35!
Which plane should be better for us to face PLAAF in your opinion?
There is some internet chatter that US is offering F-35s directly under gov to gov deal for MRFA. That is also to counter similar offer made by France. I always myself thought MRFA was a direct shoot between Rafale and F-35!
Which plane should be better for us to face PLAAF in your opinion?
The pentagon doesn't even need to budget request. Congress just gives them more F-35 than they asked for. Tell me again, how bad off the F-35 is, I like a laugh.
That puts the 120D3 at the same range as the meteor. now you have upset them.
As i said, I've seen your understanding on costings before.
What was your price on LRIP 14 again?
Le F-35
What has the update costs for existing planes, has to do with lot 15-17 FMS price?
As said before you didn't produce any better sources than USASPENDING or CBO. You are not able to say why this last contract is attached to N0001923C0009 contract and have to be paid by every customers for LRIP16 and 17.
In fact the only thing to understand is that the receiver of every has to be able to recognize its own signals. DOn't forget that the signals has by far lower power than when it's emitted. All strategy is then to disable this capacity to recognize the signals. You can use big jamming (like Growler) or be more delicate (SPECTRA) or hide yourself like F-35 or have any tactics using geography.
If you accept to be delicate then it enable a lot of tactics. Hidding with lambda/2 tactics, cloning yourself with others lambda/k tactics ... or any tactics you can use when you've the good sorcerers among your engineers just by removing a part of the signal that enable the receiver to recognize its own signals.
A supposedly single pulse rocket motor missile like AIM-120D3 having equal range like Meteor which works on solid fuel ducted ramjet is downright laughable claim. But then that was pretty much expected
In reality, no BVR missile currently(except heavy AWACS killers) can match the range, kinematics and NEZ of Meteor. Period.
In reality, no BVR missile currently(except heavy AWACS killers) can match the range, kinematics and NEZ of Meteor. Period.
Rafale is supercruising, without a doubt.
Attachments
2021 : first flight with war ready Meteor.
Premier vol d'un Rafale F3R avec des missiles air-air longue portée METEOR "bons de guerre" - Zone Militaire
En septembre dernier, le Rafale F3R de l'armée de l'Air & de l'Espace a connu son baptême du feu au Levant, à l'occasion d'une frappe d'opportunité
www.opex360.com
I add that the max range means nothing because at the end the missile has no more energy to direct itself to the target.
What is interesting is the no escape zone.
AIM 120 C5 : 30km
AIM 120 D : no source, but as it use a classical powder engine and is in the same weight class than Meteor but having to carry fuel AND oxydizer, it is smaller than Meteor.
Meteor : officially > 70km.
AIM 260 : to be seen.
Note that some said some years ago that the max range of Meteor (you know, the useless max range in a fully ballistical trajectory) is 350km.
Last edited:
You just forget Spectra.
Why do you think the french government spent 25% of the whole R&D budget of Rafale programme (ie with engine, radar, frame) just for Spectra ?
I'm not saying Meteor is a bad missile in fact I've never said such a claim I'm just posting that the Aim-120D shot down a target breaking the longest range shot by US missile which was held by the Pheonix at a 126 miles. The aim-120d likely shot that target at 130+miles making its range equal to the Meteor's public range and for some reason Rafale fanboys lose their mind over this.
Watch this.... The D3's range supposed to be greater than the D so I reckon its range surpasses the Meteor?
Now they'll go nuts.
AIM 260, based upon some net chatter, is going to be dual-pulse and dual-seeker AIM-120D size missile. So, NEZ won't be as good as Meteor. However, if it has dual seeker like IAI Stunner missile then evading it would be a real problem for any fighter.2021 : first flight with war ready Meteor.
Premier vol d'un Rafale F3R avec des missiles air-air longue portée METEOR "bons de guerre" - Zone Militaire
En septembre dernier, le Rafale F3R de l'armée de l'Air & de l'Espace a connu son baptême du feu au Levant, à l'occasion d'une frappe d'opportunité
I add that the max range means nothing because at the end the missile has no more energy to direct itself to the target.
What is interesting is the no escape zone.
AIM 120 C5 : 30km
AIM 120 D : no source, but as it use a classical powder engine and is in the same weight class than Meteor but having to carry fuel AND oxydizer, it is smaller than Meteor.
Meteor : officially > 70km.
AIM 260 : to be seen.
Note that some said some years ago that the max range of Meteor (you know, the useless max range in a fully ballistical trajectory) is 350km.