Well you can't blame him. The french do have much better bribes. They paid $160m flyaway, twice the cost of a F-35. We can only speculate, how much of that was bribe money.
Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning and F-22 'Raptor' : News & Discussion
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Lol. Speaking of bribes..,
Military Secrecy Gets in the Way of French Judges' Rafale Sale Probe: Report
Two French ministries have refused to declassify documents requested by the two judges' probing the deal, the French publication Mediapart reported.New Delhi: The two French judges who have been investigating France’s sale of 36 Rafale fighter jets to India have come across a road block – military secrecy. According to a report by French platform Mediapart, a discreet search of Dassault Aviation (makers of Rafale) offices was carried out in February this year. However, since then, the judicial investigation has been unable to get much further.
Judges Virginie Tilmont and Pascal Gastineau have been investigating the sale for the last one year, focusing on suspicions of “corruption”, “influence peddling” and “favouritism” in the 7.8 billion euro sale.
In February this year, according to Mediapart, a team from OCLCIFF, the anti-corruption unit of the French police, searched Dassault’s headquarters in Saint-Cloud, in the western suburbs of Paris, on the judicial panel’s request. When the publication asked Dassault about this, the company refused to respond.
In June, however, the judges found it difficult to proceed further –France’s Ministry of the Armed Forces and Ministry of Foreign Affairs refused to declassify certain secret documents on the sale that the judges had requested as part of their probe. The body that looks after declassifying documents of this sort – the Commission du Secret de la Défense Nationale (CSDN) – reportedly recommended to the ministries in two separate opinions that the documents should be left as is.
If the judges’ probe were allowed to continue without hurdle, it may have raised serious questions for François Hollande (who was the French president at the time of the sale in 2015), his successor Emmanuel Macron and their former minister Jean-Yves Le Drian, the Mediapart report said.
The French probe was launched in the wake of a series of investigative reports published by Mediapart in April 2021 about the deal, including the role of a middleman whose disclosures India’s Enforcement Directorate is reportedly aware of but has not bothered to investigate so far. These reports can be accessed here and here. Following the exposé, the French anti-corruption NGO Sherpa filed a complaint with the tribunal of Paris, citing “corruption”, “influence peddling”, “money laundering”, “favouritism” and undue tax waivers surrounding the deal.
Sherpa’s initial complaint, filed in 2019 (before the media exposés) was dismissed by Éliane Houlette, then head of the financial crimes prosecution unit the Parquet National Financier (the French judicial institution tracking economic offences). Only the second complaint in 2021 led to an investigation.
Now, the complainants at Sherpa are unhappy with the government’s alleged stalling tactics. “Once again military secrecy is used as window dressing to protect personal interests and ensure the impunity of top public or private figures united in the same fraudulent grouping,” William Bourdon and Vincent Brengarth, lawyers for the NGO Sherpa, told Mediapart.
In September 2021, the judges had sent “two requests for documents to be declassified to the armed forces minister at the time, Florence Parly, and to the then-minister of foreign affairs Jean-Yves Le Drian. The aim was to get hold of the classified documents held by the two ministries concerning the negotiations for the contract to sell the Rafale jets to India,” Mediapart reported.
In particular, the judges reportedly wanted to verify evidence revealed by Mediapart, that crucial anti-corruption clauses – required under Indian law – were removed from the contract.
The ministries began stalling right from the start, according to Mediapart. They took 7.5 months to locate the documents in question and send them to the CSDN. On June 8 this year, the CSDN advised against declassifying the documents, without giving any reason for it.
The CSDN’s conclusion, according to Mediapart, is “difficult to understand”. The report states:
“On the face of it, it is difficult to understand how they came to these conclusions. The law stipulates that the CSDN can advise against declassification in order to preserve “the country’s defence capacities”, to ensure the country “respects its international commitments” and to maintain the “safety” of military “personnel” who are on operational duty. Yet none of these three criteria seems relevant to the Rafale affair where the issue is simply one of determining whether corruption had taken place.”
Immediately after the CSDN’s advisories, the ministers in question refused to declassify the documents.
While the French Ministry of Armed Forces did not respond to Mediapart‘s requests for comment, the Ministry of Foreign Affairs said that the intergovernmental agreement on the sale of the Rafale aircraft “relates solely to the obligation of the French government to guarantee the delivery and the quality of this equipment”.
While Dassault Aviation was the French company involved in the deal, on the Indian side it was handled by Anil Ambani’s Reliance group.
India and Dassault had officially been negotiating terms for the purchase and manufacture of 126 Rafale jets right up to Prime Minister Narendra Modi’s publicly announced decision – on April 10, 2015 – to scrap that deal and replace it with the outright purchase of 36 fighters. While Manohar Parrikar, India’s defence minister at the time, was unaware of Modi’s decision until the very end, Mediapart investigations revealed last year that it appears Anil Ambani may have had an inkling of it.
While the French investigation into the deal continues, despite hiccups and alleged stalling tactics, no similar investigation has been launched in India. The Supreme Court had earlier rejected contentions that an FIR and probe were required on the matter, despite evidence revealed by a series of journalistic investigations.
Military Secrecy Gets in the Way of French Judges' Rafale Sale Probe: Report
Two French ministries have refused to declassify documents requested by the two judges' probing the deal, the French publication Mediapart reported.
They tried this with South Korea but being a first world country with high ethical standards they got caught.
What I mean is that the high fuel load of the SU 27 is accomplished by overloading the tank, Fly no more than 6G, to a large extent this is not practical significance,Also, WVR is a very short-term thing, with the amount of fuel to refute the low climb rate itself is wrong
duo you realize that the climb rate is an acceleration? You mean that only t / w >1 It can climb vertically to reach the corresponding speed，Since everyone can reach the corresponding speed, then the acceleration is not important? F 15 climbs faster than you do,When an airplane climbs, the lift is a horizontal force. You can only say that the F 15 has a lot of drag, so the acceleration is not good, but that's not the case
Is it important for any fighter to evaluate maneuverability as a climb rate。The sea level climb rate under the clean configuration is a uniform standard, right?And then you said he wasn't important
Yes, US doesn't want to sell F-35s to India, that's why they were just having a picnic during Aero India 2023, lol.
Dude, your knowledge regarding Flankers is outdated. Su-27 couldn't pull over 6G with full fuel load. But MKI is NOT a vanilla Su-27. Its frame internal are totally different and much beefed up. Its CoG and CoP/CoL is totally different to Su-27. MKI can pull full 9G+ with full fuel load. As per official RMAF document their MKMs often pull 12G+ manuevers. F-15 simply is no match.
Climb rate is just one area of WVR. STR/ITR/AOA these matter lot more than just climb rate. MKI matches Eagle in climb rate and far exceeds in other attributes. F-15 simply is no match to the MKI in dogfight, period.
Where are your public data? You believe the Rafale propaganda data but you don't believe the Russian data? Just because he doesn't fit your fantasy? And then quote a forum that died in 2005，You can probably calculate the detection distance for the target of Rcs = 5 using the formula I provided
You mean Su 30 removed the No. 3 tank, so he can do 9G? Laugh to death, do you believe it?
I think you'd better check, your dataN001 has over APG 79，N 011m over APG 81
He usually looks for the most exaggerated data on the internet, and then belittles your data through fantasy, and when you come up with the evidence, He would retort that the Indian version is different, that Indian fighter jets are invincible,
Doesn't matter. The nitty gritties are where final decisions are made. Details about capabilities are provided beforehand.
Rawat was referring to MRFA. ToT is not expected out of America in the first place. So no one on this side is expecting the F-35 to upset the MRFA program.
India never requested for a classified briefing because you need to sign a contract beforehand. The US hopes that happens, but we haven't given them the chance. Hence the push for the F-35 during the airshow. But the IAF is fine with the Rafale.
When jets enter WVR combat, fuel loads are very low in the first place, typically well below 50%. And when a dogfight occurs, it's typically at 25%.
The Flanker is not overloaded with fuel. By the time a fully-fueled jet takes off and reaches altitude, it would have lost quite a bit of fuel. When it enters a fight it's at 75% or less. So, with 75% fuel and less, the MKI has TWR above 1. How is a jet with TWR above 1 overloaded?
You do not need TWR above 1 to accelerate. Climb requires high TWR. Aerodynamics works differently during horizontal flight, and thrust is required to compensate for the drag during vertical flight, even gravity.
For vertical climb, TWR above 1 is necessary.
We don't have equivalent data for the MKI, so we can't make an exact comparison.
What we do know is both the F-15 and Flanker need 1 minute to climb up to 55-60,000 feet after takeoff.
The MKI is an overall superior design 'cause it's more modern. So better lift, lower drag, TVC reduces drag even further and so on. And more fuel means the MKI can spend more time in afterburner. Otoh, the F-15C has a better radar.
It's why a USAF pilot said the MKI is better than the F-15C in a dogfight when IAF trained with USAF aggressor squadrons before Red Flag.
That's a lie or a big misunderstanding of the radar formula . Sigma is not the size but the RCS. Considering that two objects of the same size can differ in rcs by a million factor, that change all who here make a nonsense.
"Went with Rafale", no. We already bought the Rafale.
So it's actually way worse, it means the IAF won't get fooled by the Americans 'cause they were already operating an equivalent jet. A lot of the stuff that you think is classified on the F-35, the IAF is already operating on the Rafale.
I'm not worried about the J-20 yet 'cause it's firstly not ready to fight in the mountains, and secondly, most of them will be necessary to fight the US in a few years.
U.S. tries to woo India away from Russia with display of F-35s, bombers
The United States brought its most advanced fighter jet, the F-35, to India for the first time this week alongside F-16s, Super Hornets and B-1B bombers as Washington looks to woo New Delhi away from its traditional military supplier, Russia.
You got it wrong. I sent a picture above.3th Tank doesn't usually fill up, only when on a long trip or on a long patrol,
3th Tank is the overloaded tank. When you use this tank, your mobility should not exceed 6G
What are you talking about? The F 15 has higher thrust, lower gravity, lower drag, and the second cockpit of the Su-30 increases altitude.So it has more drag than the Su-27, and another thing to prove is that the Su-30 has only 80% of the range of the Su-27, This is also an important proof of increased resistance and weight
Is there any evidence of this?
we're talking about above is rcs，Of course this is not the standard radar formula
Once again MKI is not just a vanilla Su-30. It has different internal architecture which allows it to be more maneuverable than normal Flankers with full loads. Those canards and larger LERX of MKI provides it much more lift and shifts the Center of Pressure forward and makes it much more unstable than Su-27/30. Hence it's more maneuverable at all regimes and weight than vanilla Flanker.
MKI is good enough to wallop your J-20s/J-16s/J-10s all over Himalayas in dogfight. Deal with it. For BVR, we've Rafale. A plane against which you've got no counter
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The amount of fuel in both the wings is just 1500Kg. By the time the aircraft takes off and reaches altitude, it will be empty.
It's something to worry about when drop tanks are introduced, but that's mission specific.