Mirage 2000H, MiG-29UPG, Jaguar DARIN III - Medium Multirole Aircraft of IAF
- Thread starter Ashwin
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another question but how many mig 29s and mirage 2000 are actually in service after all the crashes that occured after they were inducted
Have we signed or signing deal to make RD 33 mk engines in India in 2024 ?
If we buying engines for Mig 29 Upg & navy Mig 29k , then we are extending the life..
If we extending life for 15 years, then upgrading also makes sense..
If we have a indigenous Upgrade program for Mig 29 , then buying the unused Russian frames to add a squadron also make sense .
We can hedge this against the additional 97 Mk1A. By the time 83 mk1A is made, I guess Mk2 will be ready??
@Rajput Lion how will be the Mig 29 Mki with uttam radar + indian avionics compared vs additional 97 Mk1A tender?
I am ok with moving to Mk2 from 83 Mk1A,
Because of delays in Mk1A due limiting production rate of F404 . .
Both Mk1A production at HAL and upgrade of Mig 29 at IAF BRD can happen simultaneously.
If we buying engines for Mig 29 Upg & navy Mig 29k , then we are extending the life..
If we extending life for 15 years, then upgrading also makes sense..
If we have a indigenous Upgrade program for Mig 29 , then buying the unused Russian frames to add a squadron also make sense .
We can hedge this against the additional 97 Mk1A. By the time 83 mk1A is made, I guess Mk2 will be ready??
@Rajput Lion how will be the Mig 29 Mki with uttam radar + indian avionics compared vs additional 97 Mk1A tender?
I am ok with moving to Mk2 from 83 Mk1A,
Because of delays in Mk1A due limiting production rate of F404 . .
Both Mk1A production at HAL and upgrade of Mig 29 at IAF BRD can happen simultaneously.
Seems New RD 33 engine deal is for about only 80 engines ..
F404 Engines for 97 additional Mk1A initiated ..
So i guess no more upgrade for Mig29 .
***†**"""""""""", "*******"
F404 Engines for 97 additional Mk1A initiated ..
So i guess no more upgrade for Mig29 .
***†**"""""""""", "*******"
This is quite a good article about the whole situation: RD-33: Engines That Power Pakistan's JF-17 Thunder To Be Manufactured In India; HAL Gets MOD Contract
As per some other reports 15 engines have already been delivered under this new contract.
Earlier the plan was to begin retirement from 2027 onwards. Now IAF is giving it another extension by a decade. So now the Mig-29UPG fleet will begin their retirement from 2037 onwards.
Yup.
Yes, and then upgrade these mothballed Fulcrums with Indian avionics and subsystems. Mig-29 has impressed IAF over Ladakh/Himalayas. Its impressive TWR and quick reaction has kept the Chinese at bay. Hell, IAF has even used Navy's Mig-29K in that theatre!
No, no...no! The 97MK1A is one of the best decisions IAF ever took. The current situation is only temporary. Tejas programme is too important for us. It shall continue.
Even if Mig-29 UPG is a high-end jet compared with MK1A, still we should continue with Tejas as it forms the base of our military aviation complex.
It's a gradual step up from 83MK1A to 97 MK1A to *over* 200 MK2 to AMCA/TEDBF. All are necessary.
Absolutely.
I thought by cancelling additional 97 Mk1 A, we ll get additional Mk2..
Anyways news is out, 97 additional mk1A is going to be there.
2 years to set up GE414 engine manufacturing plant.. Then atleast 3 years to start delivery. Let's take an additional 2 years delay as indian standard conditions.
2025 +7 = 2032.
By 8 years I hope we finish buildit a the 180 Mk1A.
It's the best F-16 killer we have. Gotta keep the fleet going for another 10 years to maintain that advantage, so 2037-42. Retirement alongisde the remaining Jags and M2000s. Preferably with a new radar and EW suite. It's extremely competitive with the J-10C as well.
Mig-29's better when it comes to flight performance; acceleration, climb, endurance etc. LCA is better everywhere else, especially more weapons options apart from maintenance and cost. Avionics can more or less be the same.
Mk2 will be late. Assuming it flies in 2027, it should be ready for squadron deliveries by 2033. The 97 1As will bridge the gap between 2029 and 2033.
Not just the radar, but IN's MiG-29K fleet will also receive a new mission computer, is in works since '21. That's so bcoz Russia held back the source code and IN wants to integrate Astra and NASM with their K/KUBs. Hopefully the UPGs get the same upgrades.
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There are also plans to put Indian mission computers in UPG along with K versions. That will allow us to put any weapons we may want with our Mig-29s. Regarding RCS, well last year DL, Jodhpur already tested a new-gen RAM paint/spray on Mig-29 UPG and it reduced its RCS significantly. So post this UPG2 upgrade, Mig-29s may have even more advantages over MK1A than now!
Absolutely, 97 MK1A is an excellent decision. Just hope we order 36 Rafale F4.2s along with Navy's 26 Rafale-M immediately without waiting for MRFA. More Rafales and Su-57 derivatives are the only two things lacking for us against PLAAF.
Can we fund Mk2, Amca, Tedbf - R&D
Su 30, Mig 29 - upgrade s
Procurement of mk1A & Rafales
all at the same time?
that's almost entire IAF? we can finally retire legacy outdated Mig 21, Jaguars , Mig 29 squads in the coming decade.
Agree. Imo the IAF should have prioritized the M29 for upgrades back in the 90s and kept the M21 as a second line fighter. Maybe even acquire a few dozen from ex-Soviet countries.
That would have given us a decent multi role jet through the last two decades. Imo it should have been M29s at Adampur and Srinagar during Balakot and not M21. WC Varthaman would have killed at least 1 Pakistani intruder and made it back home had that been the case imo. But alas.
Aren't we doing that nowCan we fund Mk2, Amca, Tedbf - R&D
Su 30, Mig 29 - upgrade s
Procurement of mk1A & Rafales
all at the same time?
Mig-21 retirement is imminent. Upgraded Jaguar may last for one more decade and upgraded Mig-29s even more than that.
I have only one caption, 'Confidence dekho launde ki'.
It looks like a Wraith hiveship !
The Mig-29 is the IAF's first responder, hence the importance given to it. Its internal ECM suite is also an advantage.
It doesn't look like there's anything new coming, apart from MRFA. With 180 Mk1As, 21 Mig-29s and 12 MKIs, we are talking about 213 jets within the next 8-9 years, a pretty decent number. It also doesn't look like there's any plan to skip out on MRFA, it's a great political cash cow, so both the govt and IAF will want to extract as much mileage as possible.
If we assume both Mk1A and MKI MLU contracts are signed this year. It will pave the way ahead for MRFA the next year. If it begins next year, we could see it signed around the same time the last naval Rafale is delivered. So I guess F5 or bust. And I think MRFA has been delayed due to not just funding discrepencies, but also allow OEMs to catch up with some 6th gen avionics.
Su-57 in the IAF may not see the light of day. With MRFA (6 squadrons), LCA Mk2 (6) and AMCA (7) being inducted in parallel, taking up the remaining 19 squadrons, I don't see the point of the Su-57. So I've given up on it for now, the same as the 36 additional Rafales. Basically these 5 new LCA squadrons have swallowed up the alternatives.
Even if we assume MRFA is canceled, LCA Mk2 and AMCA may just end up sharing the remaining slots.
The only way out is for the IAF's sanctioned strength to be increased to 60 squadrons, if we want 200+ MRFA, 200+ LCA Mk2 etc.
just a question but if theres a war with pakistan what role will our jaguar aircrafts play?
for deep stikes its gonna be mirage 2000 and its not a multirole aircraft for air to air combat, so only maritime petrol with its anti ship missiles ?
for deep stikes its gonna be mirage 2000 and its not a multirole aircraft for air to air combat, so only maritime petrol with its anti ship missiles ?
Jaguar is our primary deep penetration strike aircraft. Twin engine, armored, low level penetration, and now comes with advanced avionics, including an AESA radar, an internal EW suite and sensor fusion. Its only drawback is its weak engine, which creates problems at medium altitude, but that's fine against Pakistan in the plains.
It cannot perform air combat missions, but carries the ASRAAM for self defense. The martime version and the new DARIN IIIs can perform sea strike.
It can carry a specialized American anti-armor cluster weapon called CBU-105. An armored cockpit and 2 30mm cannons gives it an A-10 like strafing capability. So it's excellent for pretty much any strike mission, including SEAD/DEAD and has a nuclear role.
thanks for the answer, just one more thing can we also use it as how the russians are using su 25 which is for CAS?