Check my posts over the past 4 years. Have consistently said, 200+ Rafale are a given. No matter which party comes to power. The infra setup and investment is not for civilian stuff.
MMRCA 2.0 - Updates and Discussions
- Thread starter Picdelamirand-oil
- Start date
Check my posts over the past 4 years. Have consistently said, 200+ Rafale are a given. No matter which party comes to power. The infra setup and investment is not for civilian stuff.
The IAF is fed up with the delays. They don't want any of the US aircraft.
Rafale is an easy win.
I predict India will own more Rafales than France. Good for Europe.
I expect MMRCA 2 and the Naval Tender to be won by Dassault. Probably have a follow on order for the airforce after that.
It's not like India spent 2 billion on India specific modifications to only buy 36 planes.
I predict India will own more Rafales than France. Good for Europe.
I expect MMRCA 2 and the Naval Tender to be won by Dassault. Probably have a follow on order for the airforce after that.
It's not like India spent 2 billion on India specific modifications to only buy 36 planes.
This part is going to be interesting. Because France apparently plans to buy many more Rafales over the 180 they have ordered, which is a significant number already. So India's requirements already surpass that, not counting the 100 more jets the IN needs after the first 57 for the third carrier, and possibly a lot more if they are allowed a coastal force as well, they are pushing for it.
So you can say that both IAF and IN could individually end up operating more Rafales than France does. What I mean is, while the IAF is interested in operating 200-250 Rafales on their own, the IN may also end up operating 200+ as well.
Will it go through the MMRCA 2.0 or a G2G Deal between France & india instead.. with SPM nd production line in india??
IAF is real desperate for new jets.. as squadrons strengths mitigates.. .. if France & india can iron out transfer of technology & nuances of indeginous production line of Rafale ..won't it be viable to go for a swift G2G deal instead of painstakingly long process of MMRCA 2.0 ??
The final figure, as for now, is 210. 180 on order and a last and final batch of 30.
30 is the current government estimation but it will be for the next government. So it could be 20 or it could be 50. I think it will be more because we have an objective to reach 2 % of GDP for defense and because we will have to replace the first Rafale which begin their operational life in 2001, and NGF will not be available for that. It will be Rafale MLU that is to say F5 or higher.
Honestly, I think it's too late for a large contract GTG now, it's going to be the MMRCA route. But keep your fingers crossed for a 36 jet deal, it will keep the IAF going for quite some time, plus it allows the French to finish the F4.2 development. Because the choice right now is to go for 114 F3Rs or go for 114 F4.2s after a few years of wait. It makes more sense to wait for the next version. In the meantime there's always the GTG follow-on.
From what I've seen, there will be an F6 contract also. So production can go on until 2040 and numbers could ultimately reach 280-300 for France.
And I think you need those new jets to replace the M2000s first, whereas the first Rafale can be pushed all the way to 2050+.
So this means an additional 36 rafale order continuing induction after 2022 when complete induction of original 36 rafales are done... Ofcourse with ISE incorporated..
As French airforce have ordered the rafale F4.2 from 2027 onwards.. with last 28 of 180 ordered rafale to be of F4.1 standard.. do u think IAF will be getting F4.2 in same timeframe or earlier as MMRCA is predicted to be concluded at around 2023-2024 with L1 sorted out nd negotiations starting..
Nd what are ur views on SU57E prospects in IAF once izdeliye 180 engines are incorporated.. IAF, as stated by air chief is playing a waiting game on Su57 nd will consider it when it is fully inducted in RussianAF in sizeable nos... with it's full features
'IAF could consider Su-57 stealth jet after it enters Russian service'
Do u think IAF is serious about SU57E considering in future IAF will require a 5th gen aircraft (rafale being 4.75+) with advent of Chinese 5th gen fighters nd a supposedly possible sale of Shenyang J-31 to PAF (at around 2025 with soft loans provided by china a la 8 S-20 submarines to PN).. or it will be comfortable to rely on rafales (f3R ISE & F4.2) & AMCA (induction afterwards of 2030)
Last edited:
India, France NSAs meet in Delhi exactly a week after Modi-Macron summit
Read more at:
//economictimes.indiatimes.com/articleshow/70885671.cms?utm_source=contentofinterest&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=cppst
Read more at:
//economictimes.indiatimes.com/articleshow/70885671.cms?utm_source=contentofinterest&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=cppst
India - France relations.
I don't think we will procure Rafale in such high numbers as members here are speculating. 200-250 Rafales will easily cost us 40-50 billion dollars which certainly we are not going to spend on a non stealth jet. Only chance for Rafale to get procured in a large number is if Government cancels MMRCA2.0 and go for a GtoG deal with full TOT and make in India initiative. Otherwise in MMRCA2.0 the selection of mig 35 is certain.
F4.2 will be ready for 2024 the latest (and Dassault is always on time for Rafale standard ! not as some US brand new products...).
as said by Dassault itself : "La validation du standard F4 est prévue pour 2024, avec certaines fonctions disponibles dès 2022." ie full F4 (F4.2) is for 2024, with some capacity (F4.1) in 2022.
Le standard « F4 » du Rafale est lancé - Press kits de Dassault Aviation
IAF wants an Advance, Capable, Cheap 4.5gen jet. I don't think nationality matters much.
I think you are wrong.
Indian already has a wide fleet of russian fighters. IAF don't want to rely too much on a sole supplier, specially one that sell high end fighters to China (Su35) and maybe Pak ! And if russian products (subs, tanks, fighters) are cheap, their support cost a lot and is average in the better case.
IAF now want a west fighter so as to taste and test it and challenge the russian near monopolistic actual situation.
Cheap considering the LCC and with more than 75% availability
If you think maintenance of Western fighters is cheap then you are living in delusion. Do you know initially USAF wanted to procure 750 F22s but atlast settled for just 189? Guess why? Due to high cost of maintenance!!!!! Same goes with other Western fighters like eurofighter typhoon or Rafale despite they are 0.5 gen older then f22.
And surely there are other factors too. IAF chief has clearly stated that MMRCA2 is the last time when we are going to buy a foreign jet that is why the most important factor in this deal will be the extent of tech transfer since it is the last chance for us to get advance technology for fighter development which French no matter what they claim will never provide us but Russia will surely do because it is desparate for a big defence deal given its poor economy and wide ranging western sanctions.
The LCC and availability of Rafale and mig 35 is approximately same and given the existing fleet of mig 29 UPG in IAF and experience of HAL in licence producing it the mig 35 will turn slightly cheaper in this regard. And when we combine the cost of procurement then mig 35 is surely much better deal the Rafale.Cheap considering the LCC and with more than 75% availability