oh yeah you are right, BMD phase II is enough, no one is planning to wipe out with IRBM
MMRCA 2.0 - Updates and Discussions
- Thread starter Picdelamirand-oil
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There you go again with the same rhetoric. All these were part of RFI/RFP. Dassault agreed to it till they won L1. Similar story with scorpians.
So, Spare your advice and be forthcoming in the future to get MMRCA size orders.
Do you imagine that Dassault, with no export deal at those time, was so fool to avoid a big deal for 127 jets? If no deal was inked it was for
some good reasons !
2 mains reasons :
- India need a Dassault warranty in a blind mode, ie without the possibility to make some control during the machining and the jet assembly. With the HAL quality record, it is like to ink a blank check.
- HAL was unable to produce economically the rafale.
Turn it in all the sens, the truth is there.
It's not without reasons that : India didn't ink with L2 (despite high pressure from EF country), and India asked Dassault to create a private venture in India (futurprivate areospace cluster) as part of offests.
No, they thought we were fools.
- GoI will have to go for back on tender restrictions under the pressure of crashing sqd numbers.
- Dassault is/was unable to produce rafale economically. With or without HAL, numbers were going beyond $25 billion.
- Our DPP does not have a provision to go with L2.
Dassault is yet to create any 'ecosystem' and offset is mandatory for any Rs 1000+ cr deal. (Unless you are
)Rafale is, with 20% VAT, sold to 95€ millions. It's between the SH18 price and EF2000 price. Not too bad for a plane able to do all and built so far to 200 units nearly...
And if India find it too costly, why purchasing it ?
NO FUTUR for S80. Worst solution (a Scorpene derivative ended with US assistance, a US combat system, a non mature project, overweight and over budget)
http://****/should-india-and-japan-...ent-of-beyond-the-5th-generation-fighter-jet/
@vstol Jockey
Intakes looks like that of MSA..
Attachments
Even the tail plane layout. This pic appeared much after I had made my designs public.
I can quote F-35A unit cost of $78 million and Mig-29SMT of $55 million. Which gives huge value for money. But what's the point, you are gonna give all the nuances. As if those do not apply to Rafale. No export customer got it less than at $200 mil (Not that it has so many).
Why do you think only 36 ordered.
The Swiss and Finnish tenders should give us some clues about how the two aircraft are priced. I am especially hoping the Swiss reveal significant details.
So, my little genius, why did India inked a deal?
My two cents at least another deal will follow.
M2000 also cost more than Mig29. But is was the sole able to deliver PGM on Kargil.... = value for money !
For the F35, note that the engine is suddenly 3.7 $ million more costly....
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and less and less potent as a fighter....
The Pentagon will have to live with limits on F-35’s supersonic flights
The Navy's and Marine Corps' versions of the F-35 will have restrictions on how long they can fly at supersonic speeds because of a risk of damage to the tail section.
www.defensenews.com
It's so expensive so we reduced the number. French played dirty and spoiled the MMRCA. Thus new tender. How hard is it to understand?
And we paid $2.7 million for a single MICA and $40 million per mirage upgrade. So shush...For the F35, note that the engine is suddenly 3.7 $ million more costly....
Accueil - Defense aerospace
Find all the news concerning defense and aerospace.
and less and less potent as a fighter....
The Pentagon will have to live with limits on F-35’s supersonic flights
The Navy's and Marine Corps' versions of the F-35 will have restrictions on how long they can fly at supersonic speeds because of a risk of damage to the tail section.
less potent
There was a formidable L2 waiting your order..... Why ordering Rafale? Yes, your logical is difficult to follow.
Sorry, no. => HAL played badly.
If Dassault prefered to avoid the century deal (at a time DA had no export customer !) , that means it was really bullshitted.
Is there a HAL program ran or running well ???
As explained before there is no way to negotiate with L2 according to Indian DPP. The only option is retendering. How are you so negligent after all these years following the deal.
HAL is not a player. They don't call the shots but MoD does. RFI itself specified HALs role. So yeah Dassault bullshitted with their cost estimations.
LOL. 5 years after the Rafale deal where is MMRCA2?
Remember the Su30 purchases : by batch. You will see others Rafale batchs orders my dear. With or without your approval. And not built by HAL. I think it was the Indian govt intention from the beginning.
So why pay ? Just purchase more Mig29 with the so famous russian missiles (LOL), or Trump F16.It's so expensive so we reduced the number. French played dirty and spoiled the MMRCA. Thus new tender. How hard is it to understand?
And we paid $2.7 million for a single MICA and $40 million per mirage upgrade. So shush...
less potent
5 years after the deal, where is the first rafale? (Never late lol)
Remember Mirage 2000? Where is the second batch? Its cute that you think french dalal's enjoy the same benefits as Russians in India.
It's up to customers to decide what to buy and how much. And we are buying more Mig 29s.
At least 5 are in France. On time, on budget, on spec.
This is why there will be at least another Rafale batch, to avaoid M2000 mistake : IAF has too many regrets not to have more M2000. They were (and may be are) trying some more everywhere !
second hand old junks. Nice !
It's over budget that why it's only 36
. On spec ? No. It takes Dassault 5 years just to certify a Rafale to ISE.Yeah, as if indian procurements works that way.
Bitch about indian system, then give over optimistic takes like this.
Better than overpriced toys which don't even have 50% availablity rate.
Our positions are irreconciliable.It's over budget that why it's only 36
Yeah, as if indian procurements works that way.
Bitch about indian system, then give over optimistic takes like this.
Better than overpriced toys which don't even have 50% availablity rate.
Just wait and see the futur of indian Rafale fleet : Stop or again.
In another time and another forum an indian forumer was absolutely sure that India will never purchase Rafale. You remind me this guy.
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The French chap is very much like a broken tape, he did not/could not understand DPP of GoI, It was due to the DPP, GoI could not discuss with L2 as that would have made it more competitive. There were some rumours that ex-IAF chief NAK Browne was behind the "fix" & the L1 L2 process.
Also there were the various objections by CNC about various point.
Now only 36 were ordered because the IAF was insisting on Rafale as without those the squadron nos will not go up, further IAF was putting in many objections to purchase of Tejas, Thus I feel that ordering 36 Rafales was compromise so that then IAF would be more open to Tejas, the top brass who were opposing Tejas are out/already on the way out of IAF.
Also there were the various objections by CNC about various point.
Now only 36 were ordered because the IAF was insisting on Rafale as without those the squadron nos will not go up, further IAF was putting in many objections to purchase of Tejas, Thus I feel that ordering 36 Rafales was compromise so that then IAF would be more open to Tejas, the top brass who were opposing Tejas are out/already on the way out of IAF.
Many in India know why Rafale was ordered...
Yes, but it seems that 79.1% of Strategic Front members vote for the Rafale anyway.
