Multi-Role Carrier Borne Fighter For The Indian Navy - Updates & Discussions

[randomradio]

Defeatist!

The problem is not me. It's the Americans being pragmatic. The US is the only country on our side building a full spectrum space-based ISR network. It's only natural for them to leverage it against other competitors like France.

The Americans are using every trick in their book to make India an ally. Why on earth will they give up their greatest leverage to their main competitor in India?

 

[randomradio]

We may opt for F/A-18E/F because of all the reasons you've stated, but remember that US, unlike France is not our all-weather friend. IN may will have to play a defensive role without American ISR network(which indeed is unparallel), but it is still better than selling your soul to the devil.

Rest, IN and our gov. know what needs to be done.

The Americans are being quite sincere when it comes to cooperation in the water. Cooperation with the IN matters to them, quite a lot. What we have to do is make sure our close-knit cooperation stays only in the water. We can't afford to get suckerer into a land war.

France is trusted for different reasons, but when it comes to fighting at sea, they won't help us like the US is willing to.

 

[randomradio]

If we choose F18, we ll have bank on TEDBF to have Non - dependency.

Wrt Engines F414 and coming make in India, will it provide a Sanction proof operations?

Would engine must need OEM support after the deal?

GE has submitted a proposal to the US Congress for 100% ToT of the F414 to India.

 

[randomradio]

Right now, while the IN is at acceptable levels against PLAN over the next few years, that advantage is gonna disappear soon. The IAF has screwed up its procurement, so there's not much to say about them here.

At least I hope everyone understands that if the J-20 matches the F-22's physical characteristics and comes with F-35+ avionics, the IAF is screwed. But a lot of people don't realise that if China starts dropping more advanced SSNs over the next few years, the IN is screwed too. We will need USN protection then, and for at least 2 decades.

IA is currently our best hope. Thank fvck they didn't jump onto the indigenisation gravy train like the other two did. We actually have the weapons we need to fight the Chinese in the mid to long term. Because of the T-90, M777, Sharang and K9, we actually have something we can use against the Chinese. That and emergency procurements from foreign sources have allowed the IA to become the only service actually capable of fighting China when it actually counts. Had the MoD not cancelled ATHOS, our units today would have been equipped with very advanced 155mm guns rather than their current inventory of 105mm guns. Imagine had they gone for the Arjun instead of the T-90?

The IA is currently the only service that has the warfighting capabilities necessary or at least has the plan in place to fight China for the next 30 years.

 

[Rajput Lion]

Right now, while the IN is at acceptable levels against PLAN over the next few years, that advantage is gonna disappear soon. The IAF has screwed up its procurement, so there's not much to say about them here.

At least I hope everyone understands that if the J-20 matches the F-22's physical characteristics and comes with F-35+ avionics, the IAF is screwed. But a lot of people don't realise that if China starts dropping more advanced SSNs over the next few years, the IN is screwed too. We will need USN protection then, and for at least 2 decades.

IA is currently our best hope. Thank fvck they didn't jump onto the indigenisation gravy train like the other two did. We actually have the weapons we need to fight the Chinese in the mid to long term. Because of the T-90, M777, Sharang and K9, we actually have something we can use against the Chinese. That and emergency procurements from foreign sources have allowed the IA to become the only service actually capable of fighting China when it actually counts. Had the MoD not cancelled ATHOS, our units today would have been equipped with very advanced 155mm guns rather than their current inventory of 105mm guns. Imagine had they gone for the Arjun instead of the T-90?

The IA is currently the only service that has the warfighting capabilities necessary or at least has the plan in place to fight China for the next 30 years.

IA fights an offensive war, IAF and IN do home turf protection as IA's subsidary branches, problem solved. India vs China will always be an army oriented war.

 

[_Anonymous_]

The J-20 doesn't match the F-22s stealth characteristics & will never be the equivalent of the F-35 in terms of it's avionics . Not now , not so in 2030 . That doesn't in any way translate to they pose a lesser danger to the IAF . We have time till 2029-30 to mitigate the situation somewhat. While I'm not exactly a fan of the wisdom of the IAF given their track record over the decades , my fingers are crossed.

Besides their procurement program since the 1980s is more a saga of political interference , the usual budget issues , sheer bad luck & not much improvisation in thinking displayed by the IAF. The past aside , their supine attitude once the MMRCA was cancelled in 2016 & their inability to come up with an RFP 6+ yrs later which is mostly MMRCA 2.0 is inexplicable & a dirt poor show . I'm not even getting into the non exercising of the option for the 2nd tranche of Rafales which frankly is even more inexplicable .

I think we've gone over the war gaming scenario of the IA a couple of months back , so I'd save my breath here restricting myself to salient points . Save for their ability to adapt to mountain life & warfare where the Chinese are playing catch up the less we speak about the IAs modernization attempts & procurement policies the better . They haven't been able to strike a balance between indigenization & imports the way the IN has .

In fact the IN itself has a rather chequered record in this field in spite of being the first service which actually believed & invested in self reliance pursuing such programs since the 1960s but what makes them look better is the sheer incompetence both the IA & IAF have displayed. Since CAPEX acquisitions in terms of technological complexities of platforms any Army uses is of a lesser order of magnitude as compared to the Navy or AF of any country , it's the only reason why the IA looks better off than the IAF . It's IN > IA > IAF as of now & the foreseeable future .

The way they've handled the T-90 program & the step motherly treatment given to the Arjun program is there for everyone to see . If not that , the alacrity with which the IA seems to be pursuing the ATAGS program is another pointer in the same direction . While attitudes have undergone a sea change , clearly time is working against them post 2020 - a fact that doesn't seem to have registered much with the IA.

To add to the confusion there's the Agniveer program & theaterization of the services & doctrines being pursued simultaneously. Not sure if both such programs have ever been implemented simultaneously in the armed forces anywhere in the world . The advantages we now hold over a conscript army like the PLA will come to an end with the full impact of the Agniveer program visible from 2030 -32 onwards when the last of those jawans recruited under the previous system departs & the lower recruits of the IA become exclusively Agniveer.

What impact this has over our war fighting abilities can only be guessed as of now.

 

[Ankit Kumar]

 

[Lolwa]

The Americans are being quite sincere when it comes to cooperation in the water. Cooperation with the IN matters to them, quite a lot. What we have to do is make sure our close-knit cooperation stays only in the water. We can't afford to get suckerer into a land war.

France is trusted for different reasons, but when it comes to fighting at sea, they won't help us like the US is willing to.

Funny you say this. The Americans offered us the amraam c-7's for their super hornets. No surprise they have lost the tender. If they were really serious they would be offering us atleast the c8/d's

 

[Optimist]

Funny you say this. The Americans offered us the amraam c-7's for their super hornets. No surprise they have lost the tender. If they were really serious they would be offering us atleast the c8/d's

Not going to happen. It will unbalance your neighbour too much, who has the C-7. Perhaps when the 260 is fully in service? I think the C-7 is still better than most. The METEOR may better it? You could add that. Missiles are a black box. In a war with china, things could be more available.

 

[Hydra]

Not going to happen. It will unbalance your neighbour too much, who has the C-7. Perhaps when the 260 is fully in service? I think the C-7 is still better than most. The METEOR may better it? You could add that. Missiles are a black box. In a war with china, things could be more available.

@Rajput Lion tell this fellow that AIM120D is out dated, unleash your knowledge.

 

[Hydra]

Not going to happen. It will unbalance your neighbour too much, who has the C-7. Perhaps when the 260 is fully in service? I think the C-7 is still better than most. The METEOR may better it? You could add that. Missiles are a black box. In a war with china, things could be more available.

120D is more than enough for any fighter against PAF & China. When comes to 260,i dont think US will provide this it even the closest ally in Europe in near futur. But, i think US should have made an assurance that 260 will be provided to us before Boeing deliver the last aircraft to us.
And no, we dont need assurance like " u start war with china, we will provide that this etc".

 

[Optimist]

They don't want you and Pk to kick off. For now you won't get more that the C-7. It is what Pk has. In a war with China, OR if Pk attacks you. I think then, the door will open for better weapons. There may be signed agreements. We don't know where PK will be? If they sit it out, There is no reason or sense to fight them. You don't like the rules, don't buy US, no one is forcing you.

 

[randomradio]

Funny you say this. The Americans offered us the amraam c-7's for their super hornets. No surprise they have lost the tender. If they were really serious they would be offering us atleast the c8/d's

I doubt weapons have been decided yet. And we will insist on adding our own weapons anyway.

 

[randomradio]

They don't want you and Pk to kick off. For now you won't get more that the C-7. It is what Pk has. In a war with China, OR if Pk attacks you. I think then, the door will open for better weapons. There may be signed agreements. We don't know where PK will be? If they sit it out, There is no reason or sense to fight them. You don't like the rules, don't buy US, no one is forcing you.

We have the same export status as a NATO country. Plus the Americans have passed an India-specific MDP law that allows for greater access to technology on a need basis.

Our neighbour has the PL-15, which is far superior to the AIM-120D. So the C7 is a downgrade in comparison.

 

[Lolwa]

The Americans are being quite sincere when it comes to cooperation in the water. Cooperation with the IN matters to them, quite a lot. What we have to do is make sure our close-knit cooperation stays only in the water. We can't afford to get suckerer into a land war.

France is trusted for different reasons, but when it comes to fighting at sea, they won't help us like the US is willing to.

Funny you say this. The Americans offered us the amraam c-7's for their super hornets. No surprise they have lost the tender. If they were really serious they would be offering us the atleast the c8/d

Not going to happen. It will unbalance your neighbour too much, who has the C-7. Perhaps when the 260 is fully in service? I think the C-7 is still better than most. The METEOR may better it? You could add that. Missiles are a black box. In a war with china, things could be more available.

C-7 is literally junk in our environment it's as good as the Astra mk1. Which isn't much considering both pak and China has pl 15. While the Pakistani pl-15E has 145 km range which is similar to c-7's performance although slightly superior. The pl-15 atleast has a range of 200-300 km depending on the rcs of the target. America needs to offer us the amraan-d3 if they Unironically want to get sales. We still have the r-37 too as an option from the Russians. So hopefully we could get the meteor, r-37m and amraam d3. C-7 is useless in our environment.

 

[Optimist]

We have the same export status as a NATO country. Plus the Americans have passed an India-specific MDP law that allows for greater access to technology on a need basis.

Our neighbour has the PL-15, which is far superior to the AIM-120D. So the C7 is a downgrade in comparison.

Are you sure it wasn't a c7/8? Well i don't know why the 120 c7/8 or d wasn't offered. If it doesn't upset regional power.
There are quite a few with the c-7 and c7/8

Search for aim-120 | Defense Security Cooperation Agency

www.dsca.mil

 

[Rajput Lion]

@Rajput Lion tell this fellow that AIM120D is out dated, unleash your knowledge.

Read this to know why it ain't good enough for us:

Our neighbour has the PL-15, which is far superior to the AIM-120D.

 

[Rajput Lion]

Funny you say this. The Americans offered us the amraam c-7's for their super hornets. No surprise they have lost the tender. If they were really serious they would be offering us atleast the c8/d's

AIM-120D is obsolete now. Just within few years, even USAF would move on to AIM-260.

US should offer us AIM-260 if they are serious not AIM-120D which lags behind PL-15 and Astra 2 in specs. And Meteor is way above its league.

 

[Lolwa]

AIM-120D is obsolete now. Just within few years, even USAF would move on to AIM-260.

US should offer us AIM-260 if they are serious not AIM-120D which lags behind PL-15 and Astra 2 in specs. And Meteor is way above its league.

Aim260 doesn't exist. The best the U.S has is the aim 120d and surprisingly the aim-54 phoenix. We desperately need the r-37m,meteor and aim 120d to really maintain air-superiority. Astra is a decent solution but we need to induct Astra mk 2 as soon as possible. Also we need to make an equivalent to pl-15 and pl-17 somehow. A bigger Astra with 400km range but not like sfdr. And I hope they make an anti-radiation version of that.

 

[Hydra]

Read this to know why it ain't good enough for us:

Maybach 650 is superior to s class 600,does this means s class is outdated?


And you need some one else's post to back your claims. Pathetic