Multi-Role Carrier Borne Fighter For The Indian Navy - Updates & Discussions

What should we select?


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The original F414 was a 7 stage engine, the new ones are all 6 stage with new cores. Hence the "6" in INS6.

Indian programs don't need the Enhanced Engine, 'cause all the jets involved are lighter than the SH.
You aren't getting the enhanced engine. So i don't know why you put up a link to it?
At this stage, it is the INS6 you are getting and the power specs are the same 22,000lb for the 400, As i showed and someone else said.
 
Is IN looking for naval version of AURA? Dassault will also integrate high end drones with Rafale F5 later this decade or early next decade.

No clue. More importantly, we need to see how these drones will fare from a ramp. Others don't have a problem because they are CATOBAR.

Does upgraded MKI and Brahmos combo substitute our bomber disadvantage? What if we place a squadron of MKIs in A & N? They could fight long way away from IAF bases?

MKI doesn't have range. Su-57 is much better, but we need dedicated bombers.

The IAF needs the ability to support the IN anywhere in the IOR. So the combat radius requirement is up to 5000Km. Even Su-57 provides only half that.

It's why I supported the purchase of the SH. The SH combined with P-8I, MQ-9B, MQ-4C and B-1B provides more capability than what just one Rafale provides. In the future, even something like the RQ-180 would have been possible. It's not a substitute to actually having supercarriers and larger destroyers, but it's a good stopgap for 15-20 years. It would have given us sea denial capability. Now we just have to do the same with Rafale and less connectivity to American platforms.
 
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Is it officially declared ?

Until deal is signed , anything can change..
Modi ji didn't "officially" name Rafale M because (anti)I.N.D.I.A. would start to cry hoarse during the next election campaign. But Dassault has already got the word from GOI. Here is the official announcement from the other side: India selects the Navy Rafale - Press kits

Only way this deal will fall now if Modi loses next year's election and Arvind Kejriwal/Nitish Kumar or likes become India's I.N.D.I.A.N. PM, lol :ROFLMAO:
No clue. More importantly, we need to see how these drones will fare from a ramp. Others don't have a problem because they are CATOBAR.
Yes, agreed.
MKI doesn't have range. Su-57 is much better, but we need dedicated bombers.
MKI has 1500km combat range on internal fuel. But with mid-air refuelling it should have enough range to support Rafale M/our CBG.

Regarding Su-57? Well we don't have it. Secondly, does it have a comparable big stick like MKI's Brahmos A? Don't think so.
The IAF needs the ability to support the IN anywhere in the IOR. So the combat radius requirement is up to 5000Km. Even Su-57 provides only half that.

It's why I supported the purchase of the SH. The SH combined with P-8I, MQ-9B, MQ-4C and B-1B provides more capability than what just one Rafale provides. In the future, even something like the RQ-180 would have been possible. It's not a substitute to actually having supercarriers and larger destroyers, but it's a good stopgap for 15-20 years. It would have given us sea denial capability. Now we just have to do the same with Rafale and less connectivity to American platforms.
Yes both yours and Vstol sirs' viewpoint was very clear. But still I am happy with Rafale M:)

I can't see it changing. I think he doesn't like it when it's pointed out, that the FA-18 may be more capable.
Because it isn't, period.
 
MKI has 1500km combat range on internal fuel. But with mid-air refuelling it should have enough range to support Rafale M/our CBG.

That's not enough. A refueller will have to accompany the aircraft so that's pointless.

A better option would be to just launch missiles using the refueller itself. Like the C-130J's Rapid Dragon.

Regarding Su-57? Well we don't have it. Secondly, does it have a comparable big stick like MKI's Brahmos A? Don't think so.

Su-57 can be modified to carry 2 Brahmos As. But it's still not as good as a dedicated bomber.
 
As Rafale M has already won the tender, shouldn't we start a new thread on it rather than continuing(vs SH discussion) in this very thread?
Its not done in this country unless its signed.
I smell national pride. That's ok, India will become an economic and military powerhouse in the future. Some of our stuff is good. For procurement, I would probably point to Singapore as a good example.
No honest opinion after following australian procurements ballooning. Look at Hobart-class destroyer or Collins Class submarines. Compare it with your peers like south korea or Japan. See how efficient they are.

I guess the difference here is that they face the enemy and preparing for it. While for australia its far off. Defence is good to have.

Reminds me of this:
 
Does upgraded MKI and Brahmos combo substitute our bomber disadvantage? What if we place a squadron of MKIs in A & N? They could fight long way away from IAF bases
The Brahmos RCS is too large and supersonic all the way, if at high altitude, the target is too obvious, if at low altitude, the supersonic drag is too high, the range is too short,.
 
Its not done in this country unless its signed.

No honest opinion after following australian procurements ballooning. Look at Hobart-class destroyer or Collins Class submarines. Compare it with your peers like south korea or Japan. See how efficient they are.

I guess the difference here is that they face the enemy and preparing for it. While for australia its far off. Defence is good to have.

Reminds me of this:
The collins and the replacement decisions, or lack of. Has a long and sorry history. Having said that and it's not hard to google all the issues. It is still a world class sub and the MLU will make it better. It's final replacement will be a joint UK/AU nuke sub. It was a long and winding road full of potholes, but we got there.

 
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That's not enough. A refueller will have to accompany the aircraft so that's pointless.

A better option would be to just launch missiles using the refueller itself. Like the C-130J's Rapid Dragon.



Su-57 can be modified to carry 2 Brahmos As. But it's still not as good as a dedicated bomber.
What if we can integrate Brahmos A with P-8I(yes, politically gonna be very difficult)? And with that, voilà we'll have our own Naval bomber for IOC region.

I think time has come for us to seriously look towards having a bomber fleet of our own. Tu-160 should be preferred by us over the Lancer.
 
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What if we can integrate Brahmos A with P-8I(yes, politically gonna be very difficult)? And with that, voilà we'll have our own Naval bomber for IOC region.

I think time has come for us to seriously look towards having a bomber fleet of our own. Tu-160 should be preferred by us over the Lancer.

Either bomber is fine with me.

Same argument as Rafale vs SH, both meet requirements. We only need them until we can build our own or we can replace it with something better.
 
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What if we can integrate Brahmos A with P-8I(yes, politically gonna be very difficult)? And with that, voilà we'll have our own Naval bomber for IOC region.

I think time has come for us to seriously look towards having a bomber fleet of our own. Tu-160 should be preferred by us over the Lancer.
Better option is to bring the Tupolevs back with an experimental UTTAM variant and jugaad the BrahMos in. Use it only as a bomb truck and not for anythin gelse.
 
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Either bomber is fine with me.

Same argument as Rafale vs SH, both meet requirements. We only need them until we can build our own or we can replace it with something better.
Yes, both do meet the requirement. But as far as advance weaponry is concerned both Mother Russia and Le French are waaaaay more dependable and trusted than Uncle Sam. Thus, I prefer Tu-160M2. Plus being Russian, we will be able to integrate Brahmos A into it without much muster. That can't be said about B-1B though.
Better option is to bring the Tupolevs back with an experimental UTTAM variant and jugaad the BrahMos in. Use it only as a bomb truck and not for anythin gelse.
Tu-160M2 is now being newly made. Tu-142 would be really hard to resurrect, IMO.
 
Yes, both do meet the requirement. But as far as advance weaponry is concerned both Mother Russia and Le French are waaaaay more dependable and trusted than Uncle Sam. Thus, I prefer Tu-160M2. Plus being Russian, we will be able to integrate Brahmos A into it without much muster. That can't be said about B-1B though.

Tu-160M2 is now being newly made. Tu-142 would be really hard to resurrect, IMO.

I don't think advanced weapons will be a problem for either bomber. The Americans are working on a hypersonic missile too. It's called HACM.

Brahmos-A can't be carried internally by either bomber. We need whole new weapons for them.
 
I don't think advanced weapons will be a problem for either bomber. The Americans are working on a hypersonic missile too. It's called HACM.

Brahmos-A can't be carried internally by either bomber. We need whole new weapons for them.
Whatever we choose(and we surely will, just a matter of time), we also must tag that purchase with future 6th gen Long Range Stealth Bomber program, i.e., future definite purchase of B-21 Raider or PAK-DA.

We can't afford to lag behind PLAAF(H-20) in future. I just hope our war planners are keeping an eye on future (neighbouring) trends and warfare.

PS: If Tu-160M2 can carry KH-101, then it could definitely be modified for internal carriage of Brahmos-A. Dimension/weight wise, both seem quite similar(with Kh-101 being slightly wider and Brahmos A being slightly longer).
 
The Brahmos RCS is too large and supersonic all the way, if at high altitude, the target is too obvious, if at low altitude, the supersonic drag is too high, the range is too short,.
Once again you prove how dumb you really are! As per IAF, Brahmos is not only supersonic but its RCS is also very low. In fact, as per our respected AM(retired) SBP Sinha it has stealth too. Read this:

Stealth: The missile is designed for stealth by minimising its radar cross-section and its low radar signature results in its detection by radar at extremely close ranges. BrahMos missile’s low radar signature, nearly Mach 3 speed and low-altitude flight capability enables it to swiftly reach its target. In this process, AD radars get extremely less time to react for detecting, tracking its trajectory, and launching a weapon to engage and destroy it. MANPADS are no threat to the missile as they would hear and see it only after it has gone past. Thus, intercepting BrahMos missile poses very serious challenges and it is nearly impossible for current AD systems to counter it.


Source:BrahMos Supersonic Cruise Missile-Superlative Weapon For ‘Cruise Missile Triad’ - Indian Aerospace and Defence Bulletin - News for aerospace and defence in India
 
Whatever we choose(and we surely will, just a matter of time), we also must tag that purchase with future 6th gen Long Range Stealth Bomber program, i.e., future definite purchase of B-21 Raider or PAK-DA.

We can't afford to lag behind PLAAF(H-20) in future. I just hope our war planners are keeping an eye on future (neighbouring) trends and warfare.

PS: If Tu-160M2 can carry KH-101, then it could definitely be modified for internal carriage of Brahmos-A. Dimension/weight wise, both seem quite similar(with Kh-101 being slightly wider and Brahmos A being slightly longer).

Yeah, I'd like to see the B-1B or Tu-160 giving way to a stealth bomber. The Russians are more likely to follow through with that. But the Russians could sell us that even without a Tu-160 contract.

The Kh-101 has been designed to the upper limits of the weapons bays, it can't get better than that. But Brahmos NG will do.
 
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No honest opinion after following australian procurements ballooning. Look at Hobart-class destroyer or Collins Class submarines. Compare it with your peers like south korea or Japan. See how efficient they are.
To be read with my other collins post to you.

I also saw this US video, both good and bad about the collins.

An unclassified operation and exercises over 3 years. As you know the 688 is the Los Angeles-class SSN

1691140748799.png


 
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wonder why the RAAf has a Dassault aircraft and our navy has Spanish ships? Army has bought some Sth Korean stuff. Just a few examples.
All your offensive hardware is American. Your style of warfare is closer to Americans than the British.
What if we can integrate Brahmos A with P-8I(yes, politically gonna be very difficult)? And with that, voilà we'll have our own Naval bomber for IOC region.

I think time has come for us to seriously look towards having a bomber fleet of our own. Tu-160 should be preferred by us over the Lancer.
We should rather focus on getting the agm-129's and JASSM-XR from the Americans and try integrating that on p-8's.
 
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All your offensive hardware is American. Your style of warfare is closer to Americans than the British.

We should rather focus on getting the agm-129's and JASSM-XR from the Americans and try integrating that on p-8's.
In the same post..Don't you see what you said?
As to our hardware, you might want to look at wiki. That would be good enough to show your mistake.