Off-Topic Chit-Chat

[vsdoc]

You want to Ignore Some things about the Congress
AND we want to ignore Some other things about the BJP

For me the Negatives of Congress are Much Worse than the Negatives of Modi

Large parts of India has always voted on caste and still do.

The Muslims have always been a bloc vote.

To defeat the bloc vote the BJP played with fire to galvanize Hindus into a bloc vote.

It worked.

But the BJP, having done that, needed to deliver.

Do you honestly believe the BJP has delivered?

And do you think secularism in India can survive BJP/sangh Hindutva politics?

Once secularism and ONE India, ALL Indians, fails, and you get your Hindu India, do you honestly think status quo would have been achieved and things will magically cool down and end there?

Cheers, Doc

 

[STEPHEN COHEN]

Large parts of India has always voted on caste and still do.

The Muslims have always been a bloc vote.

To defeat the bloc vote the BJP played with fire to galvanize Hindus into a bloc vote.

It worked.

But the BJP, having done that, needed to deliver.

Do you honestly believe the BJP has delivered?

And do you think secularism in India can survive BJP/sangh Hindutva politics?

Once secularism and ONE India, ALL Indians, fails, and you get your Hindu India, do you honestly think status quo would have been achieved and things will magically cool down and end there?

Cheers, Doc

We can just Agree to Disagree and leave it there

 

[vsdoc]

We can just Agree to Disagree and leave it there

Cool.

Were you impressed by the chuna lep?

Do I qualify as an Akhand Bharat Hindi speaker from cow belt?

Cheers, Doc

 

[STEPHEN COHEN]

Cool.

Were you impressed by the chuna lep?

Do I qualify as an Akhand Bharat Hindi speaker from cow belt (Kanpur and Jamshedpur)?

Cheers, Doc

Nobody care for Akhand Bharat

This STUPID term is use Only by Pakistanis ; even Indian Muslims dont use it

Therefore your Antecedents are beginning to look suspicious

And we care about the CHUNA that Congress and Gandhis have been applying on India

have you heard of "Chuna lagana " it means daylight robbery

 

[vsdoc]

Nobody care for Akhand Bharat

This STUPID term is use Only by Pakistanis ; even Indian Muslims dont use it

Therefore your Antecedents are beginning to look suspicious

And we care about the CHUNA that Congress and Gandhis have been applying on India

have you heard of "Chuna lagana " it means daylight robbery

I have heard of chuna kattha.

Ok so not impressed ....

Cheers, Doc

 

[Grevion]

Being Indian is the ONLY commonly acceptable thread that binds us all.

Never under any government at the center has there been such a widespread perception/belief/confidence that India only belongs to one section of Indians.

And that the others are here at their good graces.

This is not a sustainable or tenable situation in a nation like India.

Cheers, Doc

The govts will come and go man but India and Indians are here to stay. We are legally bounded to stay together under the constitution and nobody can change that. Not even Modi and Shah duo. Powerful politicians like them have came and gone and faded into their fair share of history.

 

[vsdoc]

The govts will come and go man but India and Indians are here to stay. We are legally bounded to stay together under the constitution and nobody can change that. Not even Modi and Shah duo. Powerful politicians like them have came and gone and faded into their fair share of history.

I agree.

India will right itself (do pardon the terrible pun).

Cheers, Doc

 

[ManavantraTruti]

I was thinking Yashwant Sinha.

But both are equally unacceptable in Modi's grand plan.

Cheers, Doc

Yashwant sinha was corrupt as hell.

 

[Dagger]

Large parts of India has always voted on caste and still do.

The Muslims have always been a bloc vote.

To defeat the bloc vote the BJP played with fire to galvanize Hindus into a bloc vote.

It worked.

But the BJP, having done that, needed to deliver.

Do you honestly believe the BJP has delivered?

And do you think secularism in India can survive BJP/sangh Hindutva politics?

Once secularism and ONE India, ALL Indians, fails, and you get your Hindu India, do you honestly think status quo would have been achieved and things will magically cool down and end there?

Cheers, Doc

You know. Yours is wishful thinking. I don't want a war. But all I see is people defending their way of life and safety. The cool down is only smart when their perceived dangers have passed.
Democracy is a simple concept. Everybody is equal. Some easily accept it. For all your drama, I see no push for special priveleges to the majority with the BJP. Heck, they still have maintained the majority as second class. Lets forget about the basket case democracies of our dear neighbours.
You have Malaysia-60% Muslim- 94.6% literacy- stellar reputation as a modern country. Only the Muslims are classified Malay. Rest are non Malay. Apostasy or change of religion from the true one is banned. Their ladies must not marry the non-muslims, but the reverse is encouraged. Disproportionate Reservation for the majority, not the minority ,mind you. Demolishing sprees of the wrong kind religious places , unfathomably, all democratically sanctioned. Separate laws for the Muslims and non-muslims.
All democratically sanctioned and constitutionally maintained. Then comes the magical statement that only a tiny minority are extremists and the rest are progressive and egalitarian. If even 15% of the 60% had any egalitarian bone, these constitutional provisions would have been voted out. But NOPE.
Surely, observing our dear neighbours, one can definitely say more than 50%, the majority have no interest in others' rights. But observing Malaysia, you get the curious suspicion ,the 'overwhelming' majority have no respect for your basic rights.
Now this is 'modern' Malaysia-how soon do you expect our dear neighbours to catchup? what about our own? I would say we are toast, if we even agree to an Akhand Bharat now, What do you say? And you are expecting a cool down, a laying down of the shields, anytime soon?
Old, but not very wise, no?

 

[vsdoc]

You know. Yours is wishful thinking. I don't want a war. But all I see is people defending their way of life and safety. The cool down is only smart when their perceived dangers have passed.
Democracy is a simple concept. Everybody is equal. Some easily accept it. For all your drama, I see no push for special priveleges to the majority with the BJP. Heck, they still have maintained the majority as second class. Lets forget about the basket case democracies of our dear neighbours.
You have Malaysia-60% Muslim- 94.6% literacy- stellar reputation as a modern country. Only the Muslims are classified Malay. Rest are non Malay. Apostasy or change of religion from the true one is banned. Their ladies must not marry the non-muslims, but the reverse is encouraged. Disproportionate Reservation for the majority, not the minority ,mind you. Demolishing sprees of the wrong kind religious places , unfathomably, all democratically sanctioned. Separate laws for the Muslims and non-muslims.
All democratically sanctioned and constitutionally maintained. Then comes the magical statement that only a tiny minority are extremists and the rest are progressive and egalitarian. If even 15% of the 60% had any egalitarian bone, these constitutional provisions would have been voted out. But NOPE.
Surely, observing our dear neighbours, one can definitely say more than 50%, the majority have no interest in others' rights. But observing Malaysia, you get the curious suspicion ,the 'overwhelming' majority have no respect for your basic rights.
Now this is 'modern' Malaysia-how soon do you expect our dear neighbours to catchup? what about our own? I would say we are toast, if we even agree to an Akhand Bharat now, What do you say? And you are expecting a cool down, a laying down of the shields, anytime soon?
Old, but not very wise, no?

Why?

One billion Hindus should surely be able to manage half a billion Muslims?

Not that us agreeing (or you, since under the BJP, we are not you) automatically means the Pakistanis and Bangladeshis are going to agree as well to dissolve their borders.

Essentially, you are agreeing to lose your homeland like the Parsis did, just so that you do not die out as a civilization as the Parsis did.

Personally I believe that a civilization, any civilization, is

BLOOD

FAITH

SOIL

You lose one of these three, you lose the link to your unbroken civilization.

In essence I see a compromise. Not a war. But a rearguard action.

Cheers, Doc

 

[Dagger]

Large parts of India has always voted on caste and still do.

The Muslims have always been a bloc vote.

To defeat the bloc vote the BJP played with fire to galvanize Hindus into a bloc vote.

It worked.

But the BJP, having done that, needed to deliver.

Do you honestly believe the BJP has delivered?

And do you think secularism in India can survive BJP/sangh Hindutva politics?

Once secularism and ONE India, ALL Indians, fails, and you get your Hindu India, do you honestly think status quo would have been achieved and things will magically cool down and end there?

Cheers, Doc

And your bogey-man, hindu rashtra? Please name me a few laws, that are being pushed, that might affect equality?
Parsi and Sikhs are probably considered their own. Personally seen, orthodox hindus having no issue entering Gurudwaras,Jain, Buddhist temples and Agiyaris and praying. By all probability ,if not, for the missionary zeal, the Christians would be counted as one of our own too. Seen Yesu idols moving in chariots and referred to as the God by most.
Name a few laws , specifically . I am curious.

 

[vsdoc]

And your bogey-man, hindu rashtra? Please name me a few laws, that are being pushed, that might affect equality?
Parsi and Sikhs are probably considered their own. Personally seen, orthodox hindus having no issue entering Gurudwaras,Jain, Buddhist temples and Agiyaris and praying. By all probability ,if not, for the missionary zeal, the Christians would be counted as one of our own too. Seen Yesu idols moving in chariots and referred to as the God by most.
Name a few laws , specifically . I am curious.

You've seen seen orthodox Hindus entering Agyaris and praying?

Cheers, Doc

 

[Dagger]

Why?

One billion Hindus should surely be able to manage half a billion Muslims?

Not that us agreeing (or you, since under the BJP, we are not you) automatically means the Pakistanis and Bangladeshis are going to agree as well to dissolve their borders.

Essentially, you are agreeing to lose your homeland like the Parsis did, just so that you do not die out as a civilization as the Parsis did.

Personally I believe that a civilization, any civilization, is

BLOOD

FAITH

SOIL

You lose one of these three, you lose the link to your unbroken civilization.

In essence I see a compromise. Not a war. But a rearguard action.

Cheers, Doc

I can't help or agree with your notions. Blood has nothing to do with civilization. I have not interceded and have no interest in attacking Zoroastrianism, while you continue with your rants. Its quite a peaceful one. Would be happy to have as neighbours.
But the blood is already just an illusion, you refuse to wake up to. DNA tests show that the Indian Zoros are mixed with Indians. And the Iranian shias are chock full of Arabs and Turkish DNAs. Prolly only the Iranian Zoros would qualify for the blood test. Thats my conviction. I have no interest arguing the point either.

Soil don't matter either. Everybody is a migrant.

More than faith, its the culture that matters. Turkey is the same faith as a Pakistan. An UK is the same faith as a Baptist Nagaland. Light and day .

 

[vsdoc]

Normal everyday hindus, entering and staying silent in Agiyaris . Not the scriptural ones.

Its quite a common sight. You probably considered them tourists. But they would have paid their obeisance. No?

The last two posts actually tells me how much you really know about Zoroastrianism or Parsis.

There was a long discussion (a series of discussions) in the recent past. But that was with guys who at least knew the basics.

No non Zoroastrian is allowed to enter an Agyari or an Atash Behram.

Indian Zoroastrians and Iranian Zoroastrians cluster very closely together and are very distinct fom their surrounding native non Zoroastrian populations in India and Iran.

And the only admixture of blood between Zoroastrians and Indians that became formalized in the Parsis was approximately a thousand years ago, in a pulse or genetic spike, between Zoroastrian Persian males and Indian females.

Those are now an India-only sub sect called the Khandyas. Our pall bearers. And there is no inter-marrying between Behdin and Athrvan Zoroastrians and them.

Cheers, Doc

 

[Dagger]

You've seen seen orthodox Hindus entering Agyaris and praying?

Cheers, Doc

I have seen people enter Buddhist and Jain ones, I imagine there would be people willing to , in the fire temples if allowed. I am not knowledgeable. It was a bluff really.

 

[Dagger]

The last two posts actually tells me how much you really know about Zoroastrianism or Parsis.

There was a long discussion (a series of discussions) in the recent past. But that was with guys who at least knew the basics.

No non Zoroastrian is allowed to enter an Agyari or an Atash Behram.

Indian Zoroastrians and Iranian Zoroastrians cluster very closely together and are very distinct fom their surrounding native non Zoroastrian populations in India and Iran.

And the only admixture of blood between Zoroastrians and Indians that became formalized in the Parsis was approximately a thousand years ago, in a pulse or genetic spike, between Zoroastrian Persian males and Indian females.

Those are now an India-only sub sect called the Khandyas. Our pall bearers. And there is no inter-marrying between Behdin and Athrvan Zoroastrians and them.

Cheers, Doc

I deleted the post immediately, hoping you will miss it. Seems you already started a massive reply. It was simply my conviction on hindu nature. You should already know. I am from the south, my exposure is with the jain temples and buddhist temples
, really.
Late Edit:
This story proves my point.
Ex-communicated Parsis Get their own Fire Temple - Pune Mirror -

"A group of reformist Parsis on Monday raised the banner of revolt against orthodoxy by inaugurating a fire temple in Pune that not only recognises children of Parsis who have married outside the community, but also allows non- Parsis entry."
Now track the attendance of this temple.

 

[Dagger]

The last two posts actually tells me how much you really know about Zoroastrianism or Parsis.

There was a long discussion (a series of discussions) in the recent past. But that was with guys who at least knew the basics.

No non Zoroastrian is allowed to enter an Agyari or an Atash Behram.

Indian Zoroastrians and Iranian Zoroastrians cluster very closely together and are very distinct fom their surrounding native non Zoroastrian populations in India and Iran.

And the only admixture of blood between Zoroastrians and Indians that became formalized in the Parsis was approximately a thousand years ago, in a pulse or genetic spike, between Zoroastrian Persian males and Indian females.

Those are now an India-only sub sect called the Khandyas. Our pall bearers. And there is no inter-marrying between Behdin and Athrvan Zoroastrians and them.

Cheers, Doc

You still don't understand. How then are you going to reconvert Shias, whose bloodlines are forgotten,? Considering you are so strict about the mixing of Indian Zoros?
Anyway , my knowledge on Zoroastrianism is pretty non-existent. Mostly guesswork. Its unimportant.

Best if you could provide an answer to what specific laws are you afraid of? that BJP is liable to bring?

 

[vsdoc]

You still don't understand. How then are you going to reconvert Shias, whose bloodlines are forgotten,? Considering you are so strict about the mixing of Indian Zoros?
Anyway , my knowledge on Zoroastrianism is pretty non-existent. Mostly guesswork. Its unimportant.

Best if you could provide an answer to what specific laws are you afraid of? that BJP is liable to bring?

Yup, lets leave Zoroastrianism out of this.

Lets talk about India.

The beef law. Not that the law wasn't there earlier. But the way the government went about it. Extending its scope to male cattle. Being selective where it was not politically safe. And the complete silence on the beef lynchings around the country.

The zeal and vigor with which the Yogi government went after the Muslim butchers in UP.

Like it or not, beef is the staple for a huge chunk of our population. When you go after food in this way, you are absolutely 100% being Hindu-centric only.

No one (at least not me) has any argument against calves and milch cows. But bullocks and oxen was where the Modi government overplayed its hand. And where things will have the first push-back and reversal once the dispensation changes.

I am extremely anti-beef ban. And I believe it infringes on my right to eat something that has no taboo in my faith.

Cheers, Doc

 

[Dagger]

Yup, lets leave Zoroastrianism out of this.

Lets talk about India.

The beef law. Not that the law wasn't there earlier. But the way the government went about it. Extending its scope to male cattle. Being selective where it was not politically safe. And the complete silence on the beef lynchings around the country.

The zeal and vigor with which the Yogi government went after the Muslim butchers in UP.

Like it or not, beef is the staple for a huge chunk of our population. When you go after food in this way, you are absolutely 100% being Hindu-centric only.

No one (at least not me) has any argument against calves and milch cows. But bullocks and oxen was where the Modi government overplayed its hand. And where things will have the first push-back and reversal once the dispensation changes.

I am extremely anti-beef ban. And I believe it infringes on my right to eat something that has no taboo in my faith.

Cheers, Doc

Beef. Its a pretty elementary argument. Starting off, I, presonally, have no qualms what you eat. So I am going to have to talk about the opinions of others and why it is a measure which has the stamp of fairness from democracies around the world.

1. The ban was sale in animal markets only. They could register and directly ship the buffalo to the slaughter house, without breaking the law. You could have still sourced and had your fill from a direct-buying enterprise.
2. The law was brought on May 2017 and struck down by July 2017 .
3. Meats of dogs and cats are favoured by Chinese and Koreans. Still banned democratically in 6 states of the US. Banned democratically in them.
"For dog meat is still perfectly legal in most of the United States. In fact, just six states—Virginia, California, Hawaii, New York, Georgia, and Michigan—have outlawed dog and cat meat."
"Thailand, Taiwan and the Philippines have now banned dog butchering outright."-democratically banned.
Selling Dog and Cat Meat Is Still Legal in Most of U.S.—but a Federal Ban Could Soon Be in Place
Simply because some pet owners have sentimental attachment to their pets. So why not if some of your fellow Indians have religious sentiments?
4. Many species are protected by wildlife protection act. The IUCN redlist seeks to protect threatened species from slaughter. Apparently to prevent extinction. Fact is , I and most others don't care if some species goes extinct. Very minute % cares. Its still banned by law. Interfering with mine and your right to eat some Rhino meat.I am pretty sure most meat eating friends would have a go at it, coservation be damned. But its banned and is an infringement on their right to eat whatever.
5.As I was arguing with Shajida the other day, I should be allowed to burn holybooks for light and warmth if I so wish. The law of"hurting religious sentiments" would probably get me arrested. I can't even burn in public, what I have bought with my own money. But this double standard is accepted.
‘Muslim-hater’ among 3 held for Quran sacrilege at Malerkotla
Why is it so easy for you to respect the sentiments of 3,4,5 and not make a ruckus? Erstwhile govts in principle have curtailed, what is yur right based on the sentiments of a few.
and creating this massive drama when you have practically unlimited substitutes?

 

[vsdoc]

Beef. Its a pretty elementary argument. Starting off, I, presonally, have no qualms what you eat. So I am going to have to talk about the opinions of others and why it is a measure which has the stamp of fairness from democracies around the world.

1. The ban was sale in animal markets only. They could register and directly ship the buffalo to the slaughter house, without breaking the law. You could have still sourced and had your fill from a direct-buying enterprise.
2. The law was brought on May 2017 and struck down by July 2017 .
3. Meats of dogs and cats are favoured by Chinese and Koreans. Still banned democratically in 6 states of the US. Banned democratically in them.
"For dog meat is still perfectly legal in most of the United States. In fact, just six states—Virginia, California, Hawaii, New York, Georgia, and Michigan—have outlawed dog and cat meat."
"Thailand, Taiwan and the Philippines have now banned dog butchering outright."-democratically banned.
Selling Dog and Cat Meat Is Still Legal in Most of U.S.—but a Federal Ban Could Soon Be in Place
Simply because some pet owners have sentimental attachment to their pets. So why not if some of your fellow Indians have religious sentiments?
4. Many species are protected by wildlife protection act. The IUCN redlist seeks to protect threatened species from slaughter. Apparently to prevent extinction. Fact is , I and most others don't care if some species goes extinct. Very minute % cares. Its still banned by law. Interfering with mine and your right to eat some Rhino meat.I am pretty sure most meat eating friends would have a go at it, coservation be damned. But its banned and is an infringement on their right to eat whatever.
5.As I was arguing with Shajida the other day, I should be allowed to burn holybooks for light and warmth if I so wish. The law of"hurting religious sentiments" would probably get me arrested. I can't even burn in public, what I have bought with my own money. But this double standard is accepted.
‘Muslim-hater’ among 3 held for Quran sacrilege at Malerkotla
Why is it so easy for you to respect the sentiments of 3,4,5 and not make a ruckus? Erstwhile govts in principle have curtailed, what is yur right based on the sentiments of a few.
and creating this massive drama when you have practically unlimited substitutes?

Its the cow that is holy.

Not the bull and bullock.

The bull is actually Zoroastrian - both ritual sacrifice as well as the taro (consecrated urine) of the albino bull.

Cheers, Doc