And people are impressed by the Su-57's display.
PAK-FA / Sukhoi Su-57 - Updates and Discussions
- Thread starter Ashwin
- Start date
And people are impressed by the Su-57's display.
Sukhoi corp. want to compete with the species
And people are impressed by the Su-57's display.
While the WS-10's thrust at sea level may exceed the AL-31, its corrosion issues in maritime environments and limited design for naval ops highlight ongoing challenges. China's reliance on the Su-35 until the WS-10 matures underscores the gap in engine development.
Russia’s Su-57 Felon Fighter Is A Giant Embarrassment for Putin
Key Points and Summary: Russia’s Su-57 “Felon” stealth fighter has become mired in slow production, sanction-induced parts shortages, and lack of export orders.- Envisioned as a modern replacement for older Russian jets, the Su-57’s development has suffered extensive delays since its maiden flight in 2010.
- Technical hurdles persist: the advanced radar and new jet engine remain behind schedule, and sanctions bar importing vital Western-made components. Potential customers like India have withdrawn, and Russia’s defense industry lacks the funds and scale to mass-produce.
- As the war in Ukraine continues draining resources, the Su-57 appears destined for obscurity, hampered by economic struggles and limited global demand.
Russia’s Sukhoi Su-57 May be Destined for Obscurity
Ever since the fall of the USSR, the military aviation community has been waiting for the next-generation Russian fighter jet to emerge.For more than a decade, the backbone of Moscow’s fighter force was the Mikoyan MiG-29 and Sukhoi Su-27, so what Russia would come up with next was the question.
During the Cold War years, the Mikoyan Design Bureau labored on a new-generation design heavily cloaked in secrecy.
This program was later revealed to be the Project 1.44/1.42 design (also known as the Multi-Role Fighter or “MFI” in its Russian acronym), which turned out to be too large, too heavy, not stealthy enough and designed more for the previous decade than for the 21st century.
The single prototype flew twice in 1999, and the program was canceled.
At the same time, Mikoyan’s main rival in the fighter business, Sukhoi, had been developing an aircraft under the Perspective Aviation Complex – Front-Line Aviation (or “PAK-FA” in the Russian acronym) program.
The prototypes were initially known by the design bureau internal designator of T-50.
That T-50 design was awarded a contract in 2002 with the team at Sukhoi, set ordered to develop, as one Moscow colleague described it, “an aircraft larger than a MiG-29, but smaller than a Su-27 and would eventually replace both those types in service.”
Su-57 Felon: What Gives the Program Bleak Prospects
Following the selection of the Sukhoi design, the first flight of the aircraft occurred in 2010 from the aerodrome at the Komsomolsk-na-Amure aviation plant in the Russian Far East.It would take another decade until the current production version of the aircraft (now designated Su-57) entered service with the Russian Aerospace Forces in 2020.
These timescales are one of the reasons the program will probably never be built in large numbers. The window of opportunity that the Russian industry once had to produce and sell this aircraft to export customers has passed.
The original plan of Russian industry was that any nation that had already acquired the Su-27, Su-30SM, or Su-35 would be a captive market for the sale of the Su-57.
But many of those target nations are now procuring other western-made aircraft that are more reliable and easier to maintain in most respects.
India once partnered with Russia to develop a specialized version to meet their requirements but withdrew entirely from the partnership in 2018.
As many commentators have pointed out, the chief maintenance issue with the Su-57 is that it relies heavily on imported Western components.
These are parts required both for production and for maintaining the aircraft daily. They are also unobtainable due to sanctions imposed on Russia over its February 2022 invasion of Ukraine that bars their importation.
Su-57 Fighter: What Holds the Warplane Back?
Russian aircraft programs also depend on export orders to create economies of scale or are challenging to support correctly.Unfortunately, not only are there not any external buyers for the Su-57, but Russia’s arms exports are shrinking rapidly – along with that downturn in those arms sales, Russia’s influence in foreign affairs globally is dropping.
Speaking with numerous Russian industry leaders at various international defense expos in the past two decades, a collection of their comments paints a picture of why there is not much of a future for the Su-57 Felon:
- New-age aircraft designs require the development of lighter-than-metal alloys and non-ferrous materials – usually composites. The Russian aerospace industry is far behind in this technology, mirroring a deficit in composite production capabilities across the whole economy.
- The Su-57 is supposed to be equipped with an AESA radar set, the NIIP N036 “Belka,” and a new NPO Saturn/Lyulka AL-51F 5th-generation jet engine developed at the aero-engine enterprise in Ufa. Neither system has been ready for installation in the initial batches of aircraft. The AL-51F engine was only mature enough to be shown publicly for the first time at Air Show China in Zhuhai in November 2024.
- Aircraft production is painstakingly slow and is produced at a single-digit per-year rate. If there is to be a wholesale replacement of the older MiGs and Sukhois with Su-57s, a massive investment in manufacturing and test facilities would have to be made to facilitate series production.
Su-57 Seems Destined to Fail
The latest economic data also shows Russia’s situation is worsening daily.The head of Russia’s major defense industrial conglomerate, Rostec GD Sergei Chemezov, has said publicly at the end of 2024 that the current high interest rates mean “we will go bankrupt in a short period of time and will again come to the government with an outstretched hand and say, give us money to save our production,” he said.
With the many demands on Russia’s central budget to finance the war in Ukraine, it is doubtful that kind of money would be forthcoming.
While some companies will suffer, Russia can keep the high interest going for quite sometime.
And all that talk of the high interest affecting crown jewel programs like Su-57 is nonsense. Their economy's practically turned towards war production, and Western news reports mainly target Russian crown jewel programs. Pre-2010, there were constant reports about the non-existence of the PAK FA program itself. And the lies just increased after the first flight. So this is quite typical. More such nonsensical reports will continue to be published until a sizable number is delivered. The next target will be PAK DP, rinse and repeat. And people tend to have short memories.
After the next offensive season, war spending could reduce too. Or even earlier if a deal with Trump is reached. Either case, Su-57 is a long term program.
@randomradio
As per some reports, Russia has allowed IAF to access Su-57 prototype which will arrive at Aero India 2025. However, IAF pilots won't be allowed to fly it. But if IAF is impressed with what they see then Russia will send a full production model of Su-57 which could also be flight tested by IAF pilots on a later date. Things are again starting to shape in Russia's favour especially now that US has withdrawn flight-performance of F-35A during the same event.
As per some reports, Russia has allowed IAF to access Su-57 prototype which will arrive at Aero India 2025. However, IAF pilots won't be allowed to fly it. But if IAF is impressed with what they see then Russia will send a full production model of Su-57 which could also be flight tested by IAF pilots on a later date. Things are again starting to shape in Russia's favour especially now that US has withdrawn flight-performance of F-35A during the same event.
It's single seat, so IAF pilots cannot fly it without training anyway.
I believe that any interest we show in the jet will be for political leverage over the West for engine tech, nothing more. And even if we have geniune interest, the Russians have to start operating the jet in numbers first before we think about buying.
Old it may be, but nothing beats the curves of the MKI. The Su-57 looks average in comparison.
This has been my opinion too since 2002 when I first saw MKI. Its triplane is literally aerodynamic plus design perfection. Nothing will ever beat MKI in sheer looks, IMO. Absolutely, nothing.
Too bad 4G birds will be the last of the classic beauties. 5G birds all look alike, more or less. 6G remains to be seen.
The decision of buying a Russian or American 5th gen is something that's taken at the highest levels. IAF contingents have had a close look at the Su-57 (known back then as T-50 PAK-FA) for several years back when we were involved in FGFA. It's unlikely they're seeing anything new. Su-57 has evolved very little since then (save for some new stuff like the stealthy nozzle that's being tested, but that's not being shown at Aero India anyway).
Exactly.
Personally, as far as any off-the-shelf buy of 5th gen is concerned, I'm of the opinion that until & unless the terms & conditions for getting the F-35 (even a watered-down version, modified further with Israeli avionics) are totally unacceptable, we won't even seriously consider going back to the Russians.
Btw, has anyone noticed that Su-57 seems to be the only '5th gen' that flies around at air shows without any Luneberg lens?
I'm no fan of the Su-57 either but given the S-400 and ongoing negotiations for other Russian gear, getting the F-35 for the IAF would be pulling off a major coup. There will have to be hard negotiations on sovereignty/opsec issues.
Not up to the manufacturer but the user I guess. Looks like standard RuAF camo scheme. The RuAF seems to be too busy with Ukraine to bother hiding the real RCS of its future fighter. The Chinese must have been all over this bird at Zhuhai.
Last edited:
@Parthu, @Speedster1
It's flying without any Lunerburg Lens 'cause it ain't no Su-57, but T-50 prototype. Real RCS must be quite different between them especially the latest Su-57M with AL-51F engines having flat nozzles and front/rear radar blockers.
It's flying without any Lunerburg Lens 'cause it ain't no Su-57, but T-50 prototype. Real RCS must be quite different between them especially the latest Su-57M with AL-51F engines having flat nozzles and front/rear radar blockers.
The airframe would still be the same. Quite a lot of information can still be obtained regarding the airframe from various aspect angles - most of which will be carried over to the production Su-57 as is.
Information which can be used to train the radar computers on what to look for. Once certain signature elements are isolated, modern radar computers can look for those elements on new contacts, and extrapolate the possible identity of the plane, even if other elements on the plane are being hidden.
Slapping on a reflector is a cheap & simple way to not worry about this.