Pakistan AirForce : Updates & Discussions

Hydra said:
The cosines we are enjoying for the past 10 years nothing infront of pakistan's romance with west during last half century, you even been in to a military pact with united states. What did you achieved in military engineering sector which india didn't had? Nothing...
What i meant to tell is pakistan miss the bus in past in developing military industrial base, we too did the same. Only time will tell how much india can develop our military industrial infra structure by being cosy with west.
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On surface yes....we were the American Allies during the cold war era , and India were the Soviet allies.
However in 1965 and 1971 both wars, USA embargoed Pakistan , but USSR did none of that to India.
So India benefited far more by being a Soviet/ Russian ally than what Pakistan got from being US Ally.
 
safriz said:
Most Indians and many Pakistani who constantly tease Pakistan for not going 100% indigenous, ignore or are ignorant of above mentioned situations Pakistan is facing.
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Actually, it's for none of those reasons why Pakistan is in this situation today.

The reason why Pakistan can't import and also work on an indigenous industry is because the country is flat-out broke, since 1965. And that's entirely because of the massive social policy changes Pakistan went through immediately after the failure of the 1965 war and made even worse due to the breakup in 1971.

Once you go broke, others decide what you can or can't do. And that's why you don't have an indigenous industry, because others decided you shouldn't have one.

The reasons you have given is why Pakistan will not be able to have an indigenous defence industry in the future.
 
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randomradio said:
Actually, it's for none of those reasons why Pakistan is in this situation today.

The reason why Pakistan can't import and also work on an indigenous industry is because the country is flat-out broke, since 1965. And that's entirely because of the massive social policy changes Pakistan went through immediately after the failure of the 1965 war and made even worse due to the breakup in 1971.

Once you go broke, others decide what you can or can't do. And that's why you don't have an indigenous industry, because others decided you shouldn't have one.

The reasons you have given is why Pakistan will not be able to have an indigenous defence industry in the future.
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Extremely biased and unsubstantiated comment.
In 1963 Pakistan gave financial aid to west Germany.
We were not broke until late 80s.
Even 1971 breakup of Pakistan didn't hurt the economy that much. What hurt was Bhutto's nationalisation policy.
 
safriz said:
Extremely biased and unsubstantiated comment.
In 1963 Pakistan gave financial aid to west Germany.
We were not broke until late 80s.
Even 1971 breakup of Pakistan didn't hurt the economy that much. What hurt was Bhutto's nationalisation policy.
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But till that time, Pakistan was going pretty good bin all domains.
So there is truth in what @randomradio said
 
AbRaj said:
But till that time, Pakistan was going pretty good bin all domains.
So there is truth in what @randomradio said
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Even then we were sold weapons by USA and then sanctioned and starved of spare parts.
That was the reason why JF-17 program started years later.
Now we have leverage.
There are many other programs ongoing, including BVR program.
All will be revealed as per requirement.
 
safriz said:
Extremely biased and unsubstantiated comment.
In 1963 Pakistan gave financial aid to west Germany.
We were not broke until late 80s.
Even 1971 breakup of Pakistan didn't hurt the economy that much. What hurt was Bhutto's nationalisation policy.
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You're gonna have to look up how many times you had BoP crises since 1958. I didn't count 1958 since it was a minor issue. But from 1965 onwards, even before the war, Pakistan's siorees with IMF became extremely regular.

Btw, nationalisation began in 1972. And the financial reason for the nationalisation is because Pakistan officially became broke in 1964.

In the 80s, you became even more broker than you already were. And this continued throughout.

safriz said:
Even then we were sold weapons by USA and then sanctioned and starved of spare parts.
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No, the weapons you were "sold" then were actually free of cost.

You were sanctioned by the US because you broke their trust by attacking India, nothing more.
 
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safriz said:
Even then we were sold weapons by USA and then sanctioned and starved of spare parts.
That was the reason why JF-17 program started years later.
Now we have leverage.
There are many other programs ongoing, including BVR program.
All will be revealed as per requirement.
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Bro , no offence to you but all your future projects kinda look like “place holders” until you will arrange something suitable. Like your Al-khalid and Al-zarrar or Ghauri and Babur. You are doing same with Azm and Al-Fizar. Not to forget JF 17.
All are off-the-shelf products (stock or customised) procured from somewhere and have been given fancy Islamic names.
I’m not trying to undermine your efforts but it’s what it looks like.
You have yet to develop R&D facilities needed for design and development of such kind of products in-house
 
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randomradio said:
You're gonna have to look up how many times you had BoP crises since 1958. I didn't count 1958 since it was a minor issue. But from 1965 onwards, even before the war, Pakistan's siorees with IMF became extremely regular.

Btw, nationalisation began in 1972. And the financial reason for the nationalisation is because Pakistan officially became broke in 1964.

In the 80s, you became even more broker than you already were. And this continued throughout.



No, the weapons you were "sold" then were actually free of cost.

You were sanctioned by the US because you broke their trust by attacking India, nothing more.
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Again a based and unsubstantiated comment and i will have to refrain from replying.
Let's come back to the topic of the thread which is JF-17.
AbRaj said:
Bro , no offence to you but all your future projects kinda look like “place holders” until you will arrange something suitable. Like your Al-khalid and Al-zarrar or Ghauri and Babur. You are doing same with Azm and Al-Fizar. Not to forget JF 17.
All are off-the-shelf products (stock or customised) procured from somewhere and have been given fancy Islamic names.
I’m not trying to undermine your efforts but it’s what it looks like.
You have yet to develop R&D facilities needed for design and development of such kind of products in-house
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I partially agree with you.
However there's a story to our R&D and i will elaborate on some other occasion.
 
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Guys please stick to the topic which is JF17, I want to know to more about it and don't want to suffer thousands of pages of green forum to get the relevant info. The reality is that Pakistan's economy is recovering(although the fundamentals are very weak) and there military is adequately funded, they will get the funds they need by hook or by crook.
 
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randomradio said:
Why the "first ever"?
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Yup.
Wrong wording.
First ever in Pakistan.
The weapon got qualified in China for integration with thunder.
Then in Pakistan it was taken through its paces and extensively tested.
Such as testing the missile structure under various climate and flight conditions.
That data is then shared with China and if any changes to aircraft structure or software or to the missile are needed, its then decided who gona do that.
Picture with SD-10 at CATIC

1697604822-1572334324-558024664.jpg
 
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safriz said:
Yup.
Wrong wording.
First ever in Pakistan.
The weapon got qualified in China for integration with thunder.
Then in Pakistan it was taken through its paces and extensively tested.
Such as testing the missile structure under various climate and flight conditions.
That data is then shared with China and if any changes to aircraft structure or software or to the missile are needed, its then decided who gona do that.
Picture with SD-10 at CATIC

View attachment 16808
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Whoa, then it's taken about 8 years to actually test the missile in our conditions since the aircraft's induction.
 
randomradio said:
Whoa, then it's taken about 8 years to actually test the missile in our conditions since the aircraft's induction.
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Yes. Took a long time.
Pakistan was tweaking the radar.
In 2015 a close friend at PAF told me they locked on a fighter jet size target at 78 kilometres with JF-17 radar.
Only after that they were ready for a BVR missile.
 
safriz said:
Yes. Took a long time.
Pakistan was tweaking the radar.
In 2015 a close friend at PAF told me they locked on a fighter jet size target at 78 kilometres with JF-17 radar.
Only after that they were ready for a BVR missile.
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Basically means it became a fully operational system only in 2018 or so.
 
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