Pakistan AirForce : Updates & Discussions

I mean a total of 10Ghz in X-band
I mean the pamphlet says it’s 3 GHz
Suddenly I was asked to find it. I really didn’t find it. It was a screenshot I saw on Weibo and I didn’t save it.

I don’t know that India can produce AESA. It seems that the Indian aviation industry has made great progress.
No problem. Post it if you find that screenshot anytime in future.

BTW in recent some useful but unofficial information about UTTAM AESA, from last AeroIndia -
(copied from another forum)

Various aspects of Uttam AESA radar:

UTTAM has capabilities like, Identification friend or foe (IFF), electronic and communication support measures, C-band line-of-sight and Ku-band SATCOM datalinks, etc., similar to those on the AWACS and Conformal Airborne Early Warning & Control Systems (CAEW) systems. The important modes of operation of the UTTAM radar system are the surface surveillance and the air surveillance. The sensor has the abilities to search, track-while-scan, priority tracking, high performance tracking, etc. In priority tracking, the targets will be placed in full track mode even if these cross the primary surveillance area. In high performance tracking, additional measurements are made to improve the tracking accuracy. Utilizing active aperture technology, the radar provides a fast-beam agile system that can operate in several modes concurrently. Uttam features an active phased array (APAR) which gives it superior scanning performance over legacy passive phased array radar. Unlike most contemporary radars, Uttam features Quad TRM i.e. a single plank consists of 4 TRMs. It allows the array to be more densely packed. Each TRM is equipped with low noise power amplifier, built-in test facility, digital phase-gain, and side lobe control elements. The inert model displayed at Aero India 2015 had ~184 QTRMs i.e. 736 TRMs. The array temperature is controlled by a liquid coolant circulation system. The QTRM configuration makes Uttam maintenance friendly. The radar can be scaled up or down depending on antenna size requirement.

Uttam’s QTRM configuration

The radar is capable of tracking 100 targets simultaneously and engage 6 of them by SARH/ARH missiles in high priority tracking mode. For comparison, Elta EL/M-2052 is capable of tracking 64 targets in TWS mode. In 2015 Uttam was stated to be capable of tracking a target having RCS of 2m2 at a distance of 92 kilometers. According to the new reports, the range has been increased to 150 kilometers for the target of the same RCS. In GMTT mode 2 targets can be tracked.

Uttam has over 16 different types of operational modes and the radar can operate in multiple modes simultaneously by changing modes pulse-to-pulse which gives the pilot exceptional situational awareness and mission flexibility. DRDO published a brochure of the Uttam AESAR Fire control System which features the first image of UTTAM Aesa Radar undergoing installation process on LCA Tejas LSP-2 which has been deputed to carry out flight trials and integration of India’s indigenous Uttam AESA radar.LRDE already has built Three Developmental Prototypes of UTTAM Aesa Radar which were intensively used and tested from Rooftop and Helicopters in different modes to evaluate the performance of the Radar in the past. LRDE now has developed Three more Radars which will be used for Integration and flight testing program which is likely to commence soon and will take 2-3 years to complete.Defense Analysts predict it might take even 5-6 years from the date of commencement of flight trials to clear all modes and all weapons integration into the new indigenous FCR before it can be cleared for production. HAL already has selected ELTA’s EL/M-2052 AESA Radar for the upcoming upgraded LCA-Tejas MK-1A Variant since it was more or less confirmed that indigenous fire control radar was unlikely to be ready in time for MK-1A. LRDE is hopeful that if all trials are completed in the decided time frame it might still be selected to be used on last batches of MK-1A if desired bythe customer. UTTAM Aesa Radar is most likely will be refined and re-tuned to be used on Indigenous developed Medium Combat Fighter (MCW) which was previously known as Tejas MK-2. LRDE reportedly also has been tasked to develop a more powerful variant for India’s 5th GenerationAMCA Fighter jet in near future.

FOCUS ON AIRBORNE RADAR FOR TEJAS

Hardware has already been realized for this radar which has a range of 100 km against small fighter sized targets and rooftop testing has been completed. Though the Uttam AESA currently weighs 120 kg which is some 40 kg more than the current MMR, there will be no problem in integrating it with the LCA Mk-II which can easily carry a radar of this weight. It is a 3D radar for fighters, a MMR follow on, the Active Phased Array Radar (APAR) project aims to field a fully fledged operational AESA fire control radar for the expected Mark-2 version of the Tejas. This will be the second airborne AESA program after the AEW&C project and intends to transfer the success DRDO has achieved in the Ground based radar segment to airborne systems. The overall airborne program aims to prevent this technology gap from developing, with a broad based program to bring DRDO up to par with international developers in airborne systems: both fire control and surveillance. The earlier versions of radars has mechanically moving parts, whose output was painfully slow when compared to the new generation electronic technology. LCA also has a sophisticated fly by wire system and glass cockpit.

AESA in the LCAs will obviously have a lower range, but it will be well integrated within the IAF network, and give a quantum technology jump to IAF’s combat capabilities. Notably, the 36 Rafales being acquired by IAF in the Government-to-Government deal will also have the AESA radar, developed by Thales.

FUTURISTIC 360°-CAPABLE ANTENNA

Preliminary studies have been carried out at Center for Airborne Studies (CABS) for a possible optimal design of a futuristic antenna with the desirable 360°-vision for roles identified under various war situations. The unique aerodynamically-shaped delta radome will blend with the aerodynamics of the platform-aircraft to provide the required radar performance together with better operational economy by virtue of its better aerodynamics, reduced weight, and better or similar electro-magnetics. This radar may be dorsal or conformal fuselage mounted doubts still remain as not much is known about its specifications or configuration.

The foregoing summarises the efforts made by DRDO towards development of the AESA radar for its current and future AEW&C applications as well as for realising essential allied technologies. The necessary core competence to evolve futuristic applications in AESA radar has thus been adequately established.
 

Today i learnt, PAF has their own magazine. 🙄
Second-to-none-Magazine-6th-indd (1).png
Second-to-none-Magazine-6th-indd.png


Those captions though 😱
 
And windjammer got a hard on reading this post :(
Actually unlike incompetent IAF who can’t maintain even its own planes (read Mig 21s), PAF (like it’s sibling forces) go far beyond its mandated duty for the welfare of Pakistan and Pakistani awam. They maintain Peteol pumps, Shopping malls, weddings halls, guest houses/resort, commercial buildings and a lot more.
It’s futile to even compare the two.

PS: They also have capability to tactically change names and categories of these commercial properties overnight to defeat enemy judicial system from doing any harm to their interests. That’s why they say to Awam to sleep tight and let PAF do the work.
@Lolwa
 
China’s military projects have always been mysterious. The biggest advantage of air-cooled AESA is that it can quickly upgrade the PD radar without changing the original circuit and cooling oil circuit. This may be important for JF17block2, but block3 is a newly manufactured fighter. There is no reason to use air-cooled AESA

Dimension wise there’s no chance in the nose section of Block 2 and block 3. Even the engine thrust is same. Therefore I don’t think they will go for two different radars in two different blocks.

AFAIK, the B3 will have a liquid cooled radar while B2 will get air cooled.
 
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But why compromise on the performance of 100 of jets if you can have one with the better performance ?

'Cause it's not easy or cheap to just retrofit an ES radar on a jet that used to have an MS radar. Switching to an aircooled radar on B2 would give you AESA capability on the cheap, 'cause frankly their current radar sucks.
 
'Cause it's not easy or cheap to just retrofit an ES radar on a jet that used to have an MS radar.
Almost all modern 4th gen fighters like F16,J10,F18,F15,Gripen,Su35,LCA mkA1, and even Rafale and EFT graduated from PDR to AESA. What’s so special about FC1 ? It’s not like CAC has no experience either, in fact they have done the same multiple times with different Russian flanker copies and their own J10.

It’s likely that maintaining a Aircooled AESA in 100s of Block 1 and 2 with poor thermal tolerance and degraded performance and low operational life (along with regular AESA in block 3) will going to cost them much more than any modifications for retrofitting the plumbing for radar cooling systems.
Switching to an aircooled radar on B2 would give you AESA capability on the cheap,
Question is How Cheap ? and at what cost of performance?


'cause frankly their current radar sucks.
Not according to the manufacturer of Both Radars ( which is same)
Infact if look at the specs brochure of both, one wonders why they even replacing it in first place just for such a minor range and processing gains.
 
Almost all modern 4th gen fighters like F16,J10,F18,F15,Gripen,Su35,LCA mkA1, and even Rafale and EFT graduated from PDR to AESA. What’s so special about FC1 ? It’s not like CAC has no experience either, in fact they have done the same multiple times with different Russian flanker copies and their own J10.

It’s likely that maintaining a Aircooled AESA in 100s of Block 1 and 2 with poor thermal tolerance and degraded performance and low operational life (along with regular AESA in block 3) will going to cost them much more than any modifications for retrofitting the plumbing for radar cooling systems.

Question is How Cheap ? and at what cost of performance?



Not according to the manufacturer of Both Radars ( which is same)
Infact if look at the specs brochure of both, one wonders why they even replacing it in first place just for such a minor range and processing gains.
Klj-7a has a shorter range to the el 2052 and has a worse mtbf. Also klj-7a most likely is based on the elm 2052 similar to how the uttam is.
 
Almost all modern 4th gen fighters like F16,J10,F18,F15,Gripen,Su35,LCA mkA1, and even Rafale and EFT graduated from PDR to AESA. What’s so special about FC1 ? It’s not like CAC has no experience either, in fact they have done the same multiple times with different Russian flanker copies and their own J10.

It’s likely that maintaining a Aircooled AESA in 100s of Block 1 and 2 with poor thermal tolerance and degraded performance and low operational life (along with regular AESA in block 3) will going to cost them much more than any modifications for retrofitting the plumbing for radar cooling systems.

Question is How Cheap ? and at what cost of performance?



Not according to the manufacturer of Both Radars ( which is same)
Infact if look at the specs brochure of both, one wonders why they even replacing it in first place just for such a minor range and processing gains.

There's no way to give specifics. Everything comes at a cost.
 
I mean a total of 10Ghz in X-band

Suddenly I was asked to find it. I really didn’t find it. It was a screenshot I saw on Weibo and I didn’t save it.

I don’t know that India can produce AESA. It seems that the Indian aviation industry has made great progress.
Dude, we are new to fighter jet grade Radar design and development, but quite a few DRDO Labs l have been into AESA radar design and development since almost two decades and we have our own Radar solutions (AESA based) for most of the land and naval use.
BTW recently I’ve been reading about Chinese military and aviation and although I admit that there are many incidents of blatant plagiarism by Chinese, like those J8 and Flanker copies, I must admit that it’s highly exaggerated.
Most of these so called copies are either licensed products or assistance legal means from many US, European, Ukrainian and Soviet/Russian companies.
In many instances Chinese have simply bought the whole company to get access to IPR. Saying that J10 is copy of F16 or IAI Lavi or Mig 1.44 is no different from saying that LCA is M2000 copy, when in both cases The developer got the assistance either legally or commonly employed methods.
I believe same is true about baseless claims about J20 and J35 too.
 
Dude, we are new to fighter jet grade Radar design and development, but quite a few DRDO Labs l have been into AESA radar design and development since almost two decades and we have our own Radar solutions (AESA based) for most of the land and naval use.
BTW recently I’ve been reading about Chinese military and aviation and although I admit that there are many incidents of blatant plagiarism by Chinese, like those J8 and Flanker copies, I must admit that it’s highly exaggerated.
Most of these so called copies are either licensed products or assistance legal means from many US, European, Ukrainian and Soviet/Russian companies.
In many instances Chinese have simply bought the whole company to get access to IPR. Saying that J10 is copy of F16 or IAI Lavi or Mig 1.44 is no different from saying that LCA is M2000 copy, when in both cases The developer got the assistance either legally or commonly employed methods.
I believe same is true about baseless claims about J20 and J35 too.
The Chinese did heavily blatantly at one time. The Russians had gotten angry with them over their Flanker thing. The Chinese probably got a lot of assistance from ex Soviet Union aerospace scientists and engineers. But now they are creating pretty original designs and probably of very good quality also.
 
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View attachment 22503
Who knows?
But this air-cooled AESA also has good performance, which is similar to the performance of this Israeli radar.
Ok,
There seems to be an issue with Thunder Block 3.
I am posting this on multiple forums to find an answer, so feel free to write a knowledgeable reply.
As things stand now, Block 3 is using the same old RD93 engine, not the newer RD93 MA .
Block 3 is flying with more electronics, an AESA radar and one additional hard point.
All that will need additional power. From where that extra power will come from when engine is the same?