Project 75 India Diesel-electric Submarine Programs (SSK) : Updates and Discussions

Who will win the P75I program?

  • L&T and Navantia

    Votes: 14 37.8%
  • MDL and TKMS

    Votes: 9 24.3%
  • It will get canceled eventually

    Votes: 14 37.8%

  • Total voters
    37
Ah , finally we've a new date @Sathya .

Avi Raina may not have resumed business but RST has. You can definitely breathe easier now .

I'm confident given my current lifestyle I'd not be around in 2050 . But I'm sure most people here would be . And given the spectacular success of the predictions in 2022 , I'd definitely recommend 2050 as the year to watch out for. Make a note of it in your diary folks if you think bookmarking this post doesn't help .
 
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Germany gives India special status for military purchase approvals

German seller TKMS is competing with Spanish firm Navantia for the Indian Navy’s six submarine deal, estimated at over ₹43,000 cr; German Chancellor and Spanish PM both due to visit India this week


Germany has accorded a special status to India, so that approvals for military purchases can be accelerated, German Ambassador Philipp Ackermann said on Wednesday, adding that the German seller is awaiting the Indian government to complete its decision making processes with regard to the P-75I submarine deal. The multi-billion dollar deal will top the agenda during this week’s visit to India by German Chancellor Olaf Scholz, and also over the weekend when Spanish Prime Minister Pedro Sanchez is due to visit.

Germany’s TKMS (Thyssenkrupp Marine Systems) and Navantia of Spain. are the two contenders in the fray to sell six advanced conventional submarines to the Indian Navy under Project-75I, in a deal estimated at over ₹43,000 crore. Having completed field evaluation trials, the bids are now under evaluation for technical compliance.

Speedy approvals​

“The German defence industry is mostly privatised. It’s basically a private business, but we are very clearly committed to make these deals possible. So if the Indian armed forces want to buy something from German companies, what you have now is a focus paper in the German Cabinet that is looking very, very favourably at these purchases, and that means that approval time is much accelerated,” the German envoy said at a press conference ahead of the Chancellor’s visit.

In the past, although about 95% of India’s requests for military purchases were granted, it took some time, Mr. Ackermann said, adding that the process would now be expedited by the special status for India. He observed that in the past, Indian officials came to Germany or met their German counterparts with a long list of requests; that list is now empty as the requests have been granted, he said.

Regarding the submarine deal, Mr. Ackermann said that it was now up to the Indian government to take a decision. The German government has made it very clear that it is “very supportive” and will be ready to engage formally in this deal. “But an in-principle decision has to be taken before entering,” he said, terming it a heavy decision, because a lot of money is involved.

Evaluation trials​

While an Indian Navy team visited the TKMS shipyard in March for field evaluation trials, the evaluation of Navantia’s offer was conducted at the end of June. Defence officials said that the staff evaluation of the field trials was still underway.

The design offered by TKMS, which has partnered with Mazagon Dock Shipbuilders Limited (MDL), is based on its highly successful Class 214 submarine as well as Class 212CD. Navantia, which has tied up with Larsen & Toubro, has offered a submarine based on its new S80 class of submarines, the first of which was launched in 2021 and was commissioned into the Spanish Navy as S-81 ‘Isaac Peral’ in November 2023.

Submarine endurance​

The key determinant, however, to qualify for P-75I is the Air Independent Propulsion (AIP) system, which enhances the endurance of a submarine, with a requirement that it should be operationally proven. Germany has demonstrated an operationally proven AIP, though it is falls slightly short of the endurance requirements, officials said.

Navantia, on the other hand, demonstrated an AIP fitted in a submarine which was operating on the surface and not while submerged,prmising to demonstrate its submerged performance in due course.

Since the beginning of this year, Germany has simplified licensing requirements for the sale of military equipment to India as required under its Federal Office for Economic Affairs and Export Control, and has even granted a small arms license to India.
 
Large scale A&D consolidation has been happening across Europe for some time now, starting with EADS and Eurocopter in the early 2000s to the latest KMW-Nexter combine.
No signs yet of that happening in the sub building industry. The German govt could pick up a stake in TKMS.
 
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1.73 billion...

Will the Germans be open to selling the whole thing to India at say 2 billion ?

Unlikely they'll allow sale to a non-Allied country.

But, if some agreement can be reached along the lines of the Industrial Security annexures we signed with the US, and if we negotiate that we'll buy the German offering in P75I if they sell TKMS to L&T, there's a sliver of hope.

Acquiring TKMS' IPs can be a shortcut to a company like L&T to have a considerable export portfolio as well as help greatly in building P76 (which I'm sure they'll be involved in someway).
 
I want indian private sector to win this contract, which means Spain + L&T. Hope spanish offer is equally good.

Most likely to win in my books, as long as the bid is opened. If they find a way to circumvent the commercial bidding process, then the IN wants German subs on priority and that would mean industrial considerations are secondary. L&T's gonna have to try their luck with the next program.
 
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Let's see . If the agreement for the Project 75 I is signed by 2026 , we'd see the first submarines being commissioned by 2036-38 around the same time we'd see 3 Scorpenes , 2 Project 77 Alpha SSNs + 1 no Akula class SSN leased from Russia in addition to the 6 nos Scorpenes refitted with AIP in service.

That's a grand total of 12 SSKs + SSNs not counting the ones from Project 75 I . Further, I'm not counting the in service HDWs & Kilo class which'd be retired by then or the Arihant class of SSBNs here.

In the light of the above does German leverage over our military prowess hold any significance ( whatever leverage they'd have would be over our military prowess not political leverage )?

Ze Germans could still try . I mean after all these are ze Germans. Not exactly the most rational people given their history but what effect would their non co operation have over our Naval strength in a decade or a decade & a half ?

I expect it's for this reason among a whole host of other factors the MoD / GoI + IN feel confident & comfortable with ze Germans.

As I've pointed out innumerable times before things would've never reached where it has if it wasn't for NG's shenanigans. We wouldn't be having this conversation here yet here we are.