It seems that there are discussions at the moment for a batch of Rafale M.
Rafale DH/EH of Indian Air Force : News and Discussions
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That's not the point I was making.
Astra Mk3 is gonna take to the skies soon, a year from now. It should become available by the time the first LCA Mk1A squadron is created.
Also, MBDA is fine with integrating Meteor on LCA as long as it's carrying an Indian radar. But they are making it difficult in other ways by claiming they will need prototypes of the radar to do the integration on their own. Anyway, both LCA Mk1A and Mk2 will carry Uttam. Only 1 squadron of a potential 16 new squadrons planned will carry an Israeli radar.
Then, in response to an IAF query whether the Meteor could be integrated onto the Uttam AESA radar the Defence R&D Organisation was developing, the MBDA gave conditional acceptance on July 13, 2018. Writing to the deputy chief, the MBDA wrote: ‘integration would be perfectly feasible (provided) this DRDO ‘UTTAM‘ radar would need to be shown to be completely indigenous.‘ Making its security concerns clear, the MBDA wrote: ‘Security concerns (for all parties) over the implementation, architecture and day to day operation would need to be addressed (and) the 6 partner nations would need to obtain access to full working prototypes (of the Uttam radar) before progressing to the next stage.‘
So yeah, given the constraints the Meteor won't be integrated with the LCA, but we can't dismiss it as a possibility. Especially when Astra Mk3 will start threatening European markets for the Meteor with the LCA.
Lol. It's an AESA jammer. The one going on MKI has GaN transmitters.
The largest chunk of the IAF's budget is going into fighter jets. First it was the MKI, and LCA contracts, followed by the upgrade programs of Mig-29, M2000 and Jaguar, and the upgrade programs are still ongoing. Then came the Rafale deal, which single-handedly swallowed up a huge chunk of the budget in a very short time. Then came the C-17 and C-130, which were very expensive. Apache and Chinook were also pretty expensive. Let's also not forget the IL-78, Phalcon and Netra. A lot of money went into communication networks, upgrading bases etc. And finally a lot of money is now flowing into SAMs; SPYDER, Akash, S400, MRSAM and BMD.
This decade, money is flowing into the LCA. 83 jets will be followed by a larger contract for 118 jets. Some more Russians fighters will be coming in. A number of programs for new force multipliers have begun. A lot of helicopters will be joining the fleet. And new SAM and BMD contracts are to follow; Akash Mk2, XRSAM, BMD II etc, perhaps more S-400 or even the S-500. Then there's the MRFA, which will be a very big program by itself, dwarfing all others. There's also a massive program pending for a frig load of high power radars. Overall, by the end of the decade, we will have ordered 388 fighter jets, with 240 more to follow the next decade.
The issue is weapons are now becoming more and more expensive to purchase compared to before. So less work is being done with more money. But the capability boost is insanely higher compared to before. Like the Rafales, S-400 and MRSAM are more than enough to decimate our entire existing air force.
As for more Rafales, people are being impatient. Whether more Rafales will be ordered or not depends on operational testing of the Rafale in the IAF's hands. Now they will see whether they need more F3Rs or will have to wait for the more advanced F4.2. It's not even been a year since the Rafale has started operating in India so you will have to give it time.
Point 1 is incorrect because we do make stuff cheaper than it is in western countries. And this thing about overestimating ourselves, it's needed because if we do not overpromise when a project starts off, then the administration and services will give it less importance and R&D budgets will get cut, especially with hostile foreign-led import lobbies within India. Once a project gets going, both the govt and forces are stuck, like the case with the F-35. So this is how the defence scientific community in India survived. But look at what's happening now, we are developing products at the same speed as it's being done in western nations. Like the QRSAM has no equivalent in any country and it was developed in only 4 years. And now we have achieved self-sufficiency in a lot of areas.
Point 2 is incorrect as well, because while productivity in PSUs is dismal, productivity in the private sector is good. The fact that DRAL claimed Rafales will be 20% cheaper in India than in France is enough proof. And I bet it's because of labour costs. Once our transportation industry is overhauled and modernised, it could become even cheaper.
Point 3 is correct. But this is a problem in any third world country. As people become more educated and demand more accountability, it will become better. Also you have to understand that due to the incompetent administration, foreign companies also try to take advantage of the system, like BAE did with the Hawk contract. So it's still a two-way street.
Nah, the investment being done in R&D is more than enough, because it's decided by DRDO itself. Programs don't start without sufficient funding.
The main problem in the past was the lack of test facilities, but that's changed over the last decade. The issue with scientific manpower was also solved to a significant extent with better incentives.
It's too little capex compared to the need. The IAF needs to double their current capex. Even if there are issues with bureaucracy and red tape, the hurdles are still mainly to do with capex. Overall, the military budget needs to be closer to $100B than $50B to fulfill all our current needs quickly, which is why experts are demanding the defence budget to be at least 3% of the GDP.
Wait till we get the full FRCV program going, you're gonna laugh at how cheap 114 Rafales are. Hell, you will both laugh and cry at the same time.
In 10-15 years, warfare will be over for small countries.
In our case, the defence budget needs to grow very quickly at least from 2025 onwards to reach 3%. Right now, even a 15%+ yearly growth in capex is welcome. This is happening now and I hope the trend continues.
You have to trust that the IAF knows what it's doing.
This is a terrible take. Only reason west still export is technological investment and better access of talent. West invest enormously in to R&D because that is the only thing sustaining you as the leader in those specific technologies.
Take an example of AESA radar , US fielded it 20 years ago first. Europe did it 10 years ago. We are doing it now. Meanwhile, US has already perfected the GaN. Now everyone has to catch up. This cycle will continue.
Same time, there will be other emerging technologies which the developing world can take a first stab to get forefront of it and also make it cheap. Take the example of UAVs. China took the conscious decision to invest in it heavily while Europe didn't. Today, China can offer same quality tech of a MQ-9 to an African/ME nation on one third of the price. While, Europe or Russian can offer none!.
This so called 'automation' also need capital investment. We have cheap labour thus for us it's still more efficient.
Government should promote A Dassault -- HAL Joint Venture with Dassault having Management Control
Any JV involving Anil Ambani will become another political scandal
As India Awaits More F-3 Standard Rafale Jets, Dassault Starts Testing The Latest F4 Variant
As India awaits F-3 Rafale Jets, the latest F4-1 variant of the Dassault Rafale fighters has undergone the first series of combat tests.
www.google.com
Government should promote A Dassault -- HAL Joint Venture with Dassault having Management Control
Any JV involving Anil Ambani will become another political scandal
As India Awaits More F-3 Standard Rafale Jets, Dassault Starts Testing The Latest F4 Variant
As India awaits F-3 Rafale Jets, the latest F4-1 variant of the Dassault Rafale fighters has undergone the first series of combat tests.
HAL won't accept. Dassault won't accept. IAF won't accept. So what's the point?
DRAL already works for Dassault, so we are good to go. There won't be any political scandal if DRAL is selected through SPM. Plus Dassault already has an assembly line there.
You are Not Able to Visualize the Political S**t storm that will happen if Anil Ambani gets to be a part of Make in India Rafale
Already Covid has" taken Away " Modi's Political Capital
The best way to calm down any opposition to Any JV is to Bring in HAL as a Junior partner
Nothing will happen. Dassault will choose DRAL through a transparent process.
Even if the Opposition takes it to the SC, it will get quashed, the IAF will speak good stuff about the Rafale publicly and life will go on, like it did after the GTG.
HAL back on Rafale Radar, talks on for making jets in India
French aircraft manufacturer Dassault and state-owned Hindustan Aeronautics Limited have worked most recently on $2.1 b deal to upgrade IAFs Mirage 2000 fleet. General Rawat has spoken of staggered purchases of fighter jets in the future, his idea being that small batches would be ordered to...
HAL back on Rafale Radar, talks on for making jets in India
French aircraft manufacturer Dassault and state-owned Hindustan Aeronautics Limited have worked most recently on $2.1 b deal to upgrade IAFs Mirage 2000 fleet. General Rawat has spoken of staggered purchases of fighter jets in the future, his idea being that small batches would be ordered to...www.google.com
Sure. HAL will be part of the supply chain if Rafale is made in India. Although they are unlikely to be the lead integrator, you can consider them stupid if they decide to not be part of the Rafale supply chain.
Are you talking about Astra MK2? I think Mk3 will take more time, SFDR technology is still under development in India.
That jammer is AESA type, if i am not mistaken it will be capable to produce white noise, there by jam AESA radar. It is nothing like what Rafale is doing to jam Radars ( asper @Picdelamirand-oil ), correct me if i am wrong.
Mk3. Mk2 will be ready for induction in 2023. Mk3 will undergo flight testing in its operational form by end 2022 or early 2023 and will need 2-3 years of flight testing before it enters service. It should become available well before the first LCA Mk2 squadron is established.
Nope, it's a discrete jammer meant for self-protection. There's nothing special about jamming AESA radars anyway. Rafale pretty much does the same thing. But the Rafale's EW suite is much more mature and has some more functions apart from jamming that sets it apart.
3 more Rafale jets land in India from France
It is expected that the full deliveries of 36 Rafale aircraft will be completed well before April 2022 as announced by Union defence minister Rajnath Singh in Parliament.
India ordered 36 warplanes from France in 2016.(File photo)
According to people aware of the development in Dassault, four aircraft were supposed to take off from Merignac-Bordeaux airbase in France on May 20, but only three could because of the unavailability of more mid-air refuellers in the UAE.
Although four Rafale Omni role fighters were supposed to leave on May 20, the flights were rescheduled due to maintenance issues with the mid air refuellers. The fighters could only take off today due to long weekend holidays in France, the people cited above said.
The IAF is all set to resurrect the 101 “Falcons of Chamb” squadron at Hashimara in West Bengal. It is expected that the full deliveries of 36 Rafale aircraft will be completed well before April 2022 as announced by Union defence minister Rajnath Singh in Parliament.
With India likely to buy more front-line fighters to complete the stalled requirement of 126 medium multi-role combat aircraft (MMRCA), the French have not only offered hot engine technology to India but are also willing to jointly develop extended range and capability Hammer air-to-ground missile under the Atmanirbhar Bharat route. French engine manufacturer Safran has already conveyed the offer for jointly developing aircraft engines upto 100 Kilo Newton thrust as well as share the hot engine technology which Indian allies in the west are reluctant to share.
France has also offered to share and jointly develop technology for longer range and heavier Highly Agile and Manoeuvrable Munition Extended Range (Hammer) missile which is currently part of the weapons package on the Indian Rafale. With a range of over 70 kilometres, the Hammer weapon can be guided on to the target using GPS, Inertial Navigation and Infra-red seeker with the capability to adjust to target location mid-air using maps for course correction. The latest version of this weapon has a 1,000 kilogram bomb and with laser guidance technology.
India ordered 36 warplanes from France (equivalent of two squadrons) in 2016 for ₹59,000 crore under a government-to-government deal.Hi, can pleas tell us more about the optronic instrument on F4.1. How does it differ from the IRST sensor on indian F3R & EF Typhoon's Pirate IRST?3 more Rafale jets land in India from France
It is expected that the full deliveries of 36 Rafale aircraft will be completed well before April 2022 as announced by Union defence minister Rajnath Singh in Parliament.
Another batch of three Rafale fighter jets landed at the Ambala airbase on Thursday, taking the total number of Rafales in the Indian Air Force (IAF) inventory to 23.
India ordered 36 warplanes from France in 2016.(File photo)
According to people aware of the development in Dassault, four aircraft were supposed to take off from Merignac-Bordeaux airbase in France on May 20, but only three could because of the unavailability of more mid-air refuellers in the UAE.
Although four Rafale Omni role fighters were supposed to leave on May 20, the flights were rescheduled due to maintenance issues with the mid air refuellers. The fighters could only take off today due to long weekend holidays in France, the people cited above said.
The IAF is all set to resurrect the 101 “Falcons of Chamb” squadron at Hashimara in West Bengal. It is expected that the full deliveries of 36 Rafale aircraft will be completed well before April 2022 as announced by Union defence minister Rajnath Singh in Parliament.
With India likely to buy more front-line fighters to complete the stalled requirement of 126 medium multi-role combat aircraft (MMRCA), the French have not only offered hot engine technology to India but are also willing to jointly develop extended range and capability Hammer air-to-ground missile under the Atmanirbhar Bharat route. French engine manufacturer Safran has already conveyed the offer for jointly developing aircraft engines upto 100 Kilo Newton thrust as well as share the hot engine technology which Indian allies in the west are reluctant to share.
France has also offered to share and jointly develop technology for longer range and heavier Highly Agile and Manoeuvrable Munition Extended Range (Hammer) missile which is currently part of the weapons package on the Indian Rafale. With a range of over 70 kilometres, the Hammer weapon can be guided on to the target using GPS, Inertial Navigation and Infra-red seeker with the capability to adjust to target location mid-air using maps for course correction. The latest version of this weapon has a 1,000 kilogram bomb and with laser guidance technology.
India ordered 36 warplanes from France (equivalent of two squadrons) in 2016 for ₹59,000 crore under a government-to-government deal.
What type of collaboration, i mean on Hammer.
Official 12 rafale for Croatia :
And Croatia will fly Rafales!
www.latribune.fr
The goal is to sign a contract before the end of the year, so that the first six Rafales can be delivered by the end of 2023, early 2024, followed by a second package by the end of 2024, early 2025, to replace the Croatian Air Force's old MiGs.
And that's three! After Greece and Egypt in 2021, it's Croatia's turn to buy the Dassault Aviation Rafale F3R proposed by France. Or more precisely, to select the tricolor fighter that will be taken from the air force fleet (12 aircraft: 2 two-seaters and 10 single-seaters) despite maximum pressure from Washington on the Croatian authorities to get on board the F-16. After the selection of the Rafale, Zagreb will negotiate with Paris for several months to sign a contract for 12 second-hand Rafales armed with MICA air-to-air missiles, AASM bombs and finally a 30-mm cannon with its ammunition, according to our information. France is also committed to providing training for Croatian pilots. The overall contract is valued at around 999 million euros.
According to Prime Minister Andrej Plenković, "this is the largest investment in Croatian armaments. We are increasing our combat power capacity of the Croatian army in the next 30-40 years, which is the greatest guarantor of peace. The committee studied the offers thoroughly. A study on the acquisition of aircraft was unanimously adopted. The government considers the French offer to be the best: 12 Rafale F3R aircraft (...) For the best financial amount, Croatia obtains the best rated and best equipped aircraft. 999 million euros is the best offer and France provides the best installment payment.
The goal is to sign a contract before the end of the year to deliver the first six Rafales by the end of 2023, early 2024, followed by a second package by the end of 2024, early 2025 to replace the Croatian Air Force's aging MiGs, which are scheduled to retire in 2024. The aircraft taken from the French air force have an average age of nearly 10 years and will have a potential service life of at least 30 years. This is certainly not the contract of the century for France, but it is nevertheless another contract for the Rafale. And it was won in a European country, the second after Greece. This is clearly the export priority of French Minister of the Army Florence Parly.
Freedom to use the Rafale
On November 10, France submitted an offer for Rafales compatible with both NATO and EU missions as part of the renewal of the Croatian fighter aircraft fleet. "A project that would be structuring for cooperation between our two countries, and for a stronger Europe of defense," explained then Armed Forces Minister Florence Parly on Twitter during her November 2020 visit to Croatia. And the French commercial offer was competitive. The Paris proposal would therefore amount to less than 1 billion euros, while the other favorite (Lockheed Martin) proposed the new F-16 Block 70/72 Viper for an amount estimated between 1.6 and 1.8 billion euros. But the American group would have considerably lowered their offer.
In recent days Paris and Dassault Aviation believed in the Rafale's chances. "We continue to believe that we have a very good chance," said a source close to the matter. And rightly so, despite a certain amount of skepticism generated by the relentless American lobbying of the Croatians. Florence Parly visited Croatia twice last year in less than a year. This was the first visit by a French Minister of Defense since the country's independence. The French offer ended up triumphing in Croatia against the American ogre. The Rafale's number one asset remains its freedom of use. This is not the case with an American aircraft. The Croatians have understood this...
And Croatia will fly Rafales!
Et la Croatie volera en Rafale !
La sélection inattendue... Le Rafale proposé par la France a été officiellement sélectionné par la Croatie. Le ministère de la Défense croate va négocier avec Paris durant les prochains mois l'acquisition de 12 Rafale d'occasion pour un montant évalué à 999 millions d'euros.
www.latribune.fr
The goal is to sign a contract before the end of the year, so that the first six Rafales can be delivered by the end of 2023, early 2024, followed by a second package by the end of 2024, early 2025, to replace the Croatian Air Force's old MiGs.
And that's three! After Greece and Egypt in 2021, it's Croatia's turn to buy the Dassault Aviation Rafale F3R proposed by France. Or more precisely, to select the tricolor fighter that will be taken from the air force fleet (12 aircraft: 2 two-seaters and 10 single-seaters) despite maximum pressure from Washington on the Croatian authorities to get on board the F-16. After the selection of the Rafale, Zagreb will negotiate with Paris for several months to sign a contract for 12 second-hand Rafales armed with MICA air-to-air missiles, AASM bombs and finally a 30-mm cannon with its ammunition, according to our information. France is also committed to providing training for Croatian pilots. The overall contract is valued at around 999 million euros.
According to Prime Minister Andrej Plenković, "this is the largest investment in Croatian armaments. We are increasing our combat power capacity of the Croatian army in the next 30-40 years, which is the greatest guarantor of peace. The committee studied the offers thoroughly. A study on the acquisition of aircraft was unanimously adopted. The government considers the French offer to be the best: 12 Rafale F3R aircraft (...) For the best financial amount, Croatia obtains the best rated and best equipped aircraft. 999 million euros is the best offer and France provides the best installment payment.
The goal is to sign a contract before the end of the year to deliver the first six Rafales by the end of 2023, early 2024, followed by a second package by the end of 2024, early 2025 to replace the Croatian Air Force's aging MiGs, which are scheduled to retire in 2024. The aircraft taken from the French air force have an average age of nearly 10 years and will have a potential service life of at least 30 years. This is certainly not the contract of the century for France, but it is nevertheless another contract for the Rafale. And it was won in a European country, the second after Greece. This is clearly the export priority of French Minister of the Army Florence Parly.
Freedom to use the Rafale
On November 10, France submitted an offer for Rafales compatible with both NATO and EU missions as part of the renewal of the Croatian fighter aircraft fleet. "A project that would be structuring for cooperation between our two countries, and for a stronger Europe of defense," explained then Armed Forces Minister Florence Parly on Twitter during her November 2020 visit to Croatia. And the French commercial offer was competitive. The Paris proposal would therefore amount to less than 1 billion euros, while the other favorite (Lockheed Martin) proposed the new F-16 Block 70/72 Viper for an amount estimated between 1.6 and 1.8 billion euros. But the American group would have considerably lowered their offer.
In recent days Paris and Dassault Aviation believed in the Rafale's chances. "We continue to believe that we have a very good chance," said a source close to the matter. And rightly so, despite a certain amount of skepticism generated by the relentless American lobbying of the Croatians. Florence Parly visited Croatia twice last year in less than a year. This was the first visit by a French Minister of Defense since the country's independence. The French offer ended up triumphing in Croatia against the American ogre. The Rafale's number one asset remains its freedom of use. This is not the case with an American aircraft. The Croatians have understood this...
Chuckle
Reminds me of other DRAL claims
Rafale DH/EH of Indian Air Force : News and Discussions
by now should be close to building falcons in their shed.
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Après la Croatie, pas de nouvelle commande de Rafale pour la France
Selon nos informations, le ministère des Armées ne souhaite pas commander de nouveaux appareils mais préfère privilégier la qualité du parc à la quantité. Les Rafale auront de nouveaux équipements de mission supplémentaires (radar AESA, pod Talios, moteur M88) achetés grâce au produit de cession...
www.latribune.fr
To improve the Rafales' operational readiness and missions, the French defense procurement agency (DGA) will order AESA radars (Thales), which will gradually replace the RBE2s, Talios designation pods (Thales) and additional M88 engines (Safran). This will make it possible to more quickly eliminate all the different standards of the Rafales in service (currently the latest standard is the F3R). These purchases therefore go beyond the forecasts in the 2019-2025 LPM. Above all, this equipment will improve the performance of the Rafale. Typically, the Meteor air-to-air missile will be fully operational with an AESA radar.
The Rafale chain saved
The Ministry of the Army has changed its mind about Greece. This decision is clearly different from the one taken after the Rafale contract in Greece (18 aircraft sold, including 12 second-hand): the ministry wanted to replace the 12 second-hand Rafales sold to Athens with 12 new Rafales for the air force. It had also planned, as part of the Ravel program, to put 10 Rafales back in the air, which had been parked by the air force and cannibalized for use as spare parts for aircraft leaving on missions or for training. In theory, the French air force will therefore eventually benefit from 22 additional aircraft "in service".
Finally, export contracts in Egypt and Greece, as well as national orders, have given Dassault Aviation's Rafale production line visibility for several years. There is no longer any urgency concerning the industrial chain for the French fighter, which supports a network of 500 French companies.
Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)