Rafale DH/EH of Indian Air Force : News and Discussions

WHOHE said:
Lets see the french plane do those speeds without afterburners with at least 18,000lb of fuel, two 2,000lb bombs and two BVR missiles.

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Lol. Yeah underpowered. :rolleyes:
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:ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: 790 Nm with 6 x 750 Lb bombs and 4 x BVR Missiles

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randomradio said:
Dude, you know nothing about this.

Just 'cause I can run doesn't mean I can beat Usain Bolt at running. Just because the F-35 has demonstrated something doesn't mean it can do that all the time every time against any adversary aircraft in any situation to the same level. You are bragging about things that don't even matter.

You should go convince the USAF not to change the engine even before the jet becomes operational. Send an email to them with all your links, maybe that will convince them.
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"Lets do a small exercise here, comparing the best performing variants of the Rafale and the F-35, the Rafale C and the F-35A respectively (and both unarmed):

Rafale empty weight --> 21,720 lb
Rafale maximum internal fuel load --> 10,400 lb
Rafale full weight (empty + maximum internal fuel load) --> 32,120 lb

Rafale engine max thrust AB --> 2 x 16,860 lbf --> 33,720 lbf
Rafale TWR --> 1.05


F-35 empty weight --> 29,098 lb
F-35 internal fuel load EQUAL TO THE RAFALE MAX INTERNAL FUEL --> 10,400 lb
F-35 full weight (empty + internal fuel load) --> 39,498 lb

F-35 engine max thrust AB --> 43,000 lbf
F-35 TWR --> 1.09

So with the SAME FUEL LOAD, the F-35 has a slight TWR advantage over the Rafale!
Moreover the F-35 can STILL REACH FARTHER (longer range) than the Rafale with the SAME FUEL LOAD since the F-35 has only one engine (and more advanced) while the Rafale has two engines and as such the fuel consumption of the F-35 is much more efficient!"
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Btw the french plane is only slightly faster (clean) than F-35 and its carrier version top speed (clean) is the same as F-35. ;)
 
WHOHE said:
"Lets do a small exercise here, comparing the best performing variants of the Rafale and the F-35, the Rafale C and the F-35A respectively (and both unarmed):

Rafale empty weight --> 21,720 lb
Rafale maximum internal fuel load --> 10,400 lb
Rafale full weight (empty + maximum internal fuel load) --> 32,120 lb

Rafale engine max thrust AB --> 2 x 16,860 lbf --> 33,720 lbf
Rafale TWR --> 1.05


F-35 empty weight --> 29,098 lb
F-35 internal fuel load EQUAL TO THE RAFALE MAX INTERNAL FUEL --> 10,400 lb
F-35 full weight (empty + internal fuel load) --> 39,498 lb

F-35 engine max thrust AB --> 43,000 lbf
F-35 TWR --> 1.09

So with the SAME FUEL LOAD, the F-35 has a slight TWR advantage over the Rafale!
Moreover the F-35 can STILL REACH FARTHER (longer range) than the Rafale with the SAME FUEL LOAD since the F-35 has only one engine (and more advanced) while the Rafale has two engines and as such the fuel consumption of the F-35 is much more efficient!"
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WHOHE said:
Btw the french plane is only slightly faster (clean) than F-35 and its carrier version top speed (clean) is the same as F-35. ;)
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So there, daring to say such bullshit on a site where there are still aviation specialists, I did not think it was possible.
 
Those are internal fuel only for the F-35a. There are 2 stations for 5,000lb each, of external fuel on the F-35a. Anyone like to run the numbers again?
 
WHOHE said:
Btw the french plane is only slightly faster (clean) than F-35 and its carrier version top speed (clean) is the same as F-35. ;)
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So much ignorance in just one post. The F-35 is designed as a strike fighter and the Rafale is designed as an air superiority fighter. Not the same.

Furthermore, you don't compare fuel like that, you compare using fuel fraction. Based on your figures, Rafale's fuel fraction is 0.32 whereas the F-35's is 0.26. With 0.32, the Rafale's range would be well above 2000Km, 2500Km or more, whereas the F-35's will be less than 1500Km, competing with the old Mig-21 and Mig-29.

If we reduce the Rafale's fuel fraction to 0.26, then it would be carrying 7700lbs of fuel, which will give it a TWR of nearly 1.15, based on the data you presented. To top that off, the Rafale has canards, which provides an additional 25% of lift over a conventional design like the F-35. Let's not forget that the Rafale was designed 20 years before the F-35.

The F-35's aerodynamics is only impressive compared to the F-16, Sea Harrier and F/A-18. It's a dog against more modern jets.
 
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randomradio said:
So much ignorance in just one post. The F-35 is designed as a strike fighter and the Rafale is designed as an air superiority fighter. Not the same.
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Lol. F-35 is a multirole and your french planes "air superiority" means caca when going up against the F-35. F-35 will kill the french plane ALL DAY AND NIGHT and there's nothing the french plane can do in the air to air role that the F-35 cant.
randomradio said:
Furthermore, you don't compare fuel like that, you compare using fuel fraction. Based on your figures, Rafale's fuel fraction is 0.32 whereas the F-35's is 0.26. With 0.32, the Rafale's range would be well above 2000Km, 2500Km or more, whereas the F-35's will be less than 1500Km, competing with the old Mig-21 and Mig-29.

If we reduce the Rafale's fuel fraction to 0.26, then it would be carrying 7700lbs of fuel, which will give it a TWR of nearly 1.15, based on the data you presented. To top that off, the Rafale has canards, which provides an additional 25% of lift over a conventional design like the F-35. Let's not forget that the Rafale was designed 20 years before the F-35.
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:sleep:
randomradio said:
The F-35's aerodynamics is only impressive compared to the F-16, Sea Harrier and F/A-18. It's a dog against more modern jets.
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F-18 with two tanks has no problem killing a french plane.
f18 vs rafale.jpg

f18 vs rafale 2.jpg


The french air force plane is just a little faster (clean configuration) than an F-35 since Dassault OFFICIALLY AND CLEARLY states that the maximum speed of the Rafale is Mach 1.8 or 750 knots.
www.dassault-aviation.com

Rafale specifications and performance data

Consult the main specifications of the Rafale: dimensions, weight, store stations and performance data.
www.dassault-aviation.com www.dassault-aviation.com

french navy plane M top speed is mach 1.6 (clean)
 
Picdelamirand-oil said:
Yes, I'd like to see that, because you don't seem to be able to do a proper calculation.
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You didn't know? Station 3 and 9 are 5,000 pound and plumed for external fuel tanks.
Israel is currently doing 600 gal tanks. " With the two 600-gallon drop tanks under its wings, the F-35I would increase its total fuel capacity by approximately 40%, as each tank would add about 4,000 lb of fuel for a total of more than 26,500 lb."

According to The Warzone, Lockheed Martin is also now considering working to certify a 600-gallon drop tank design for all F-35As, possibly to be used also in conjunction with the “Beast mode”. Even for a country like the United States that does not lack tankers, the addition of new drop tanks to the F-35’s stores would be a much-welcomed option to reduce the reliance on the tankers during long-range missions in new theaters like the Pacific Ocean.
theaviationist.com

Israel Continues Development Of New External Fuel Tanks For Its F-35I Adir Jets

A local newspaper reported that the development of external fuel tanks for the F-35 is still ongoing and will possibly be complete in two years. It is no
theaviationist.com theaviationist.com
 
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Optimist said:
I think as well as the Rafale M, all the Rafales were limited to M1.6 some years ago. Though M1.8 is still often seen. It was to do with the engine. I haven't seen where that has changed.
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It seems like most modern day fighters are limited to mach 1.6. The F-35 seem to be limited at mach 1.2-1.4
Even the f-15 mach 2.5 number is rarely used.
 
Lolwa said:
It seems like most modern day fighters are limited to mach 1.6. The F-35 seem to be limited at mach 1.2-1.4
Even the f-15 mach 2.5 number is rarely used.
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Rafale A has made Mach 2 using only one engine... Official G limit is 9G and the plane is able to go up to 11.5 G with structural limit at 16G...
The way we use it allow us to increase it service life from 7500 h to 9000 h and it will probably exceed 12000 h when we will be able to better study how it has aged. It's why we limit it during peace and crise time, but not during war time, if needed.
 

That was Pretty close call. I think this particular manoeuvre is highly risky and many times pilots loose orientation and crash to the ground. The last year PAF F16 crash, one EFT Crash at beach and Su 30 crash at air show happened doing same manoeuvre.
 
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By the way, the picture showing a 760 Nm combat radius for F-35 in for an Air to Air internal configuration, so it has to be compared with the picture where the Rafale is with an air superiority configuration and a combat radius of 920 Nm with two more missile compare to F-35.
 
Optimist said:
You didn't know? Station 3 and 9 are 5,000 pound and plumed for external fuel tanks.
Israel is currently doing 600 gal tanks. " With the two 600-gallon drop tanks under its wings, the F-35I would increase its total fuel capacity by approximately 40%, as each tank would add about 4,000 lb of fuel for a total of more than 26,500 lb."

According to The Warzone, Lockheed Martin is also now considering working to certify a 600-gallon drop tank design for all F-35As, possibly to be used also in conjunction with the “Beast mode”. Even for a country like the United States that does not lack tankers, the addition of new drop tanks to the F-35’s stores would be a much-welcomed option to reduce the reliance on the tankers during long-range missions in new theaters like the Pacific Ocean.
theaviationist.com

Israel Continues Development Of New External Fuel Tanks For Its F-35I Adir Jets

A local newspaper reported that the development of external fuel tanks for the F-35 is still ongoing and will possibly be complete in two years. It is no
theaviationist.com theaviationist.com
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And despite all this, the combat radius of the Rafale is superior to that of the F-35
 
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Lolwa said:
It seems like most modern day fighters are limited to mach 1.6. The F-35 seem to be limited at mach 1.2-1.4
Even the f-15 mach 2.5 number is rarely used.
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You may be looking at old charts. Early blocks were limited to less than M1.6 As testing went on. The envelope increased to M1.6
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Picdelamirand-oil said:
And despite all this, the combat radius of the Rafale is superior to that of the F-35
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Even with 5 tanks, you would need to convince me that it is worthwhile
Fuel(internal)4.7 t (10,300 lbs)
Fuel(external)up to 6.7 t (14,700 lbs)

Not if you want to put weapons on too. The Rafale has external tank points, that take up the main weight points.
1636107932071.png
 
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