Rafale DH/EH of Indian Air Force : News and Discussions

[Rajput Lion]

The Pod Talios used by the French and the new IRST which was developed in collaboration with the Indians and at their request both use MWIR (Middle Wave Infra red) technology. Talios would be able to visualize, in discretion because passive, thrusters at nearly 200 km and the new IRST would have a range of more than 100 km to engage an aerial target with a MICA NG missile without resorting to Radar for situations where discretion RF is required.

Thanks to its very high definition, telemetry now offers an identification path which makes it possible to hold decoys in check, and to pursue certain stealthy platforms such as the SU-57 and the J-20. The OSF is natively developed to operate in coordination with the RBE2 XG.

As I said in the India vs China thread that MICA-NG(IR) combined with OSF-NG will be a perfect VLO killer. Thanks for this amazing info

MWIR makes more sense as its performance suffers less degradation vis-a-vis LWIR(which the Americans are using). However, LWIR does have advantage at very high altitudes in terms of maximum detection of very cool targets. Thus, dual-band sensors which work on both MWIR & LWIR are the best in my opinion.

 

[randomradio]

Look Rafale is a high value asset which numbers just 36 at present. You probably do not send it on a risky sead mission as it stands for fear of attrition. IAF prob got near same number of tejas and definitely more mirages to do that, plus the su30. in future we can hope maybe integrated with Indian weapons. But at present its role should be to do air superiority role mainly.

It's actually necessary for SEAD/DEAD and penetration attacks.

 

[Picdelamirand-oil]

Between two and four nEUROn type UCAVs could accompany each Rafale F5. Less expensive to produce than a combat device, it could quickly increase the capabilities of an air force, without risking life of its crews.

In addition, two types of Remote Carrier are developed by MDBA for the SCAF: the RC 100 is 1.80 m long and weighs 120 kg and the RC 200 which is 2.80 m long and weighs 240 kg. The Rafale F5 will be able to carry 8 of these Remote Carriers.

Operating in packs, exchanging information to distribute roles, these Remote Carriers do not only have the role of entering a contested or totally jammed space to saturate the opposing defenses with deception or strike tactics. They must also make it possible to uncover out hidden surveillance or tracking radars, thanks to their optical sensors, but also to identify, by angular listening, the characteristics of the adversary sensors to optimize the electronic attacks of the RBE2 XG.

 

[randomradio]

Between two and four nEUROn type UCAVs could accompany each Rafale F5. Less expensive to produce than a combat device, it could quickly increase the capabilities of an air force, without risking life of its crews.

In addition, two types of Remote Carrier are developed by MDBA for the SCAF: the RC 100 is 1.80 m long and weighs 120 kg and the RC 200 which is 2.80 m long and weighs 240 kg. The Rafale F5 will be able to carry 8 of these Remote Carriers.

Operating in packs, exchanging information to distribute roles, these Remote Carriers do not only have the role of entering a contested or totally jammed space to saturate the opposing defenses with deception or strike tactics. They must also make it possible to uncover out hidden surveillance or tracking radars, thanks to their optical sensors, but also to identify, by angular listening, the characteristics of the adversary sensors to optimize the electronic attacks of the RBE2 XG.

And the RCs would also act as a SAM sponge.

 

[Picdelamirand-oil]

This week the AAE announced the adoption of the F4.1 standard. The first capability upgrade for the F4, it offers major technical and tactical advances, in particular thanks to the helmet-mounted sight and the 1000kg AASM. This allows crews to integrate them into training missions.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1687459371641442304

 

[Bon Plan]

IAF asks French firm Dassault to integrate Indian weapons on Rafale fighter jets

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https://aninews.in/news/national/general-news/iaf-asks-french-firm-dassault-to-integrate-indian-weapons-on-rafale-fighter-jets20230723132617/

The anti radiation indian missile may be usefull for France, at least as a stop gap solution.

Integration also takes time. We could start the process before NGARM hits mass production and once it does, Rafale would be ready to blow Pakistani/Chinese SAMs with it in a full-scale war.

In war time, far less : see integration of SCALP and US antiradiation missile on ukrainian foreign fighters !

 

[Rajput Lion]

The anti radiation indian missile may be usefull for France, at least as a stop gap solution.

In war time, far less : see integration of SCALP and US antiradiation missile on ukrainian foreign fighters !

Ahem...I was talking more in accordance with Indian bureaucratic timeline, lol.

 

[Bon Plan]

Ahem...I was talking more in accordance with Indian bureaucratic timeline, lol.

I'm quite sure in case of a china - India war, the bureaucratics will be less a problem !

 

[Hydra]

I'm quite sure in case of a china - India war, the bureaucratics will be less a problem !

I should not tell this as an Indian. If China declares war with in a few days those beurocrats in Delhi will be pow.

 

[Rajput Lion]

I should not tell this as an Indian. If China declares war with in a few days those beurocrats in Delhi will be pow.

Hell No.

 

[Picdelamirand-oil]

DGA engineer info in Air Fan interview.

This can be translated as follows: we have pushed back to the F5 standard the elements of the initial F4.2 standard which could have prevented all the current Rafales from being able to climb to the F4.2 standard.

As the commonality of standards is an undeniable advantage, we decided to push this advantage to the maximum.

As a result, the latest F4.2 standard is undoubtedly a little less ambitious than the initial one (but only slightly less, I assure you).

And the things that really require airframe modifications (even if invisible to the naked eye) - like integrating GaN-compliant antennae on the leading edges of the wings, for example - have been pushed back to the F5 standard.

In 10 or 15 years' time, therefore, there will be just 2 standards: F4.2 or F4.3 and F5 (F5 will then evolve into F6 and others, if required, and F4.x will also take on whatever it can from future developments).

The transition from F3R to F4-1 is software only, whereas the F5 standard will require a visit to the manufacturer, to change some modules and modify others. But this modification will only be possible on the latest generation of F3Rs, which means that only export customers will be affected.

For the AAE, this will necessarily be an order for new aircraft, except for the last 28 aircraft to be delivered shortly and the 12 additional aircraft replacing the Greek aircraft, which will be the same as those delivered to our customers, i.e. pre-packaged.

No airframe modifications are planned for the various F5-xxs. Hence the statements about "different standards".

 

[Hydra]

DGA engineer info in Air Fan interview.

This can be translated as follows: we have pushed back to the F5 standard the elements of the initial F4.2 standard which could have prevented all the current Rafales from being able to climb to the F4.2 standard.

As the commonality of standards is an undeniable advantage, we decided to push this advantage to the maximum.

As a result, the latest F4.2 standard is undoubtedly a little less ambitious than the initial one (but only slightly less, I assure you).

And the things that really require airframe modifications (even if invisible to the naked eye) - like integrating GaN-compliant antennae on the leading edges of the wings, for example - have been pushed back to the F5 standard.

In 10 or 15 years' time, therefore, there will be just 2 standards: F4.2 or F4.3 and F5 (F5 will then evolve into F6 and others, if required, and F4.x will also take on whatever it can from future developments).

The transition from F3R to F4-1 is software only, whereas the F5 standard will require a visit to the manufacturer, to change some modules and modify others. But this modification will only be possible on the latest generation of F3Rs, which means that only export customers will be affected.

For the AAE, this will necessarily be an order for new aircraft, except for the last 28 aircraft to be delivered shortly and the 12 additional aircraft replacing the Greek aircraft, which will be the same as those delivered to our customers, i.e. pre-packaged.

No airframe modifications are planned for the various F5-xxs. Hence the statements about "different standards".

Pls tell me in simple language, is it possible to upgrade the current Indian F3R to F5? Also is it possible to upgrade F4.2 to F5 standard?

 

[Picdelamirand-oil]

Pls tell me in simple language, is it possible to upgrade the current Indian F3R to F5? Also is it possible to upgrade F4.2 to F5 standard?

I don't know, but that's what I understand from what the DGA employee said: he said that the old Rafales, which are all French, can't be upgraded because they're not pre-wired, but that those that have been sold for export, as well as those that France acquired after exports began, have been pre-wired and can be upgraded with a return to the factory because some equipment needs to be replaced and some needs to be added.

I assume that the Indians have negotiated this pre-wiring and that it's part of the ISEs. What's more, the export to India was made after Egypt and Qatar, so it's not the very first, so there's little risk that this feature won't be applied to your aircraft.

 

[Optimist]

I haven't seen a list of the stuff that has been dropped for F4. It may be a long list. What is being done may still be "not technically sufficient."

The article also calls out the French secret. We know it is a POS, but..You can't criticise the Rafale in the media.
"If the Rafale as an aircraft is not to be criticized, certain equipment raises certain questions"

Rafale, adoption du standard F4.1 !

Semaine importante pour l’avion de combat français Rafale qui a obtenu de l’AAE l’autorisation de l’adoption du standard F4. Retour en détails sur cette importante modification et ce qu’elle implique.RappelCe printemps, la Direction générale de l’armement (DGA) a prononcé la qualification du...

www.avianews.ch

"Huge disappointment


The F4 standard is in itself a very important modernization for the Rafale combat aircraft. Without bashing, this week's announcement is nevertheless a disappointment. If the Rafale as an aircraft is not to be criticized, certain equipment raises certain questions. Indeed, if the modernization of the screens was necessary, the multi-screen option seems limited in terms of information redundancy compared to the large screens integrated within competing aircraft. But where the biggest disappointment is is the monocular helmet viewfinder. At the beginning of the 1990s, when the Israeli Elbits Systems began testing monocular helmet sights, several criticisms quickly appeared concerning the lack of information available and the fatigue of the eye involved. Quickly, this system gives way to a wide-angle system. Either projected onto the visor of the helmet. This system, which has been in service for more than 20 years, has proven itself on many devices and the new versions offer possibilities without common measure to what has existed so far. The French choice of a monocular system is not only limited, but is not up to what the Rafale of tomorrow should be. This reminds me of the remarks following the evaluations in our country and in Finland, where pilots indicated without naming them that certain modernizations planned for certain competitors were not technically sufficient.."

 

[Picdelamirand-oil]

It's just a Forumer's point of view on air-defense.net which has been disputed on the site and which doesn't apply to the Rafale export which has a different helmet-mounted sight. For a long time, France rejected the helmet-mounted sight because it was too heavy for what it could do, and now it has opted for the lightest one, which, unsurprisingly, is monocular. But this is not a limitation of the Rafale, it's an adaptation to the fact that France carries out very long missions with its Rafale.

 

[Optimist]

It's just a Forumer's point of view on air-defense.net which has been disputed on the site and which doesn't apply to the Rafale export which has a different helmet-mounted sight. For a long time, France rejected the helmet-mounted sight because it was too heavy for what it could do, and now it has opted for the lightest one, which, unsurprisingly, is monocular. But this is not a limitation of the Rafale, it's an adaptation to the fact that France carries out very long missions with its Rafale.

It sounds like your normal nonsense. France always wanted a HMD.
I would think the recent F-35, about 10hr flight from alaska to japan was long enough. Then joined up in the mission exercise. Total time in air wasn't stated, but 12-13hr would be a good guess. What do you call a VERY long mission?

USAF F-35As operate marathon sortie from Alaska to Japan

Lockheed Martin F-35As operated by the US Air Force (USAF) have performed a long-range sortie from North America to Japan simulating a combat mission.

www.flightglobal.com

The work saw four F-35As of the 355th Fighter Squadron launch from Eilson AFB in Alaska and fly 10h to Japan, where they joined up to perform an exercise with other USAF F-35As launched from Japan’s Kadena and Iwakuni bases.

Forumer? It was an article I linked.
here is another one.

Dassault Aviation says supply chain issues weigh on production

Rafale fighter jet maker Dassault Aviation on Thursday said supply chain issues had deteriorated further since last year and made it more difficult to process its orders.

www.reuters.com

Rafale fighter jet maker Dassault Aviation (AM.PA) on Thursday said supply chain issues had deteriorated further since last year and made it more difficult to process its orders.

 

[Picdelamirand-oil]

Your "mission" for your F-35s is a convoy mission, so if the pilot is tired when he arrives that doesn't have much effect on his performance, whereas France has carried out real war missions lasting 10 hours and 30 minutes in Mali, bombing the Jihadis on arrival, and we've carried out nuclear missions against a French target, with strong air opposition in France, starting from Reunion Island. We also carried out exercise missions in French Polynesia, heading west with a single stopover in the US.

 

[Optimist]

Your "mission" for your F-35s is a convoy mission, so if the pilot is tired when he arrives that doesn't have much effect on his performance, whereas France has carried out real war missions lasting 10 hours and 30 minutes in Mali, bombing the Jihadis on arrival, and we've carried out nuclear missions against a French target, with strong air opposition in France, starting from Reunion Island. We also carried out exercise missions in French Polynesia, heading west with a single stopover in the US.

So 10.5hr is VERY long by your standard..OK I guess the F-35 was a VERY VERY long mission

Read the link, silly boy. just more of your Rafale nonsense.
"Lockheed Martin F-35As operated by the US Air Force (USAF) have performed a long-range sortie from North America to Japan simulating a combat mission.

The work saw four F-35As of the 355th Fighter Squadron launch from Eilson AFB in Alaska and fly 10h to Japan, where they joined up to perform an exercise with other USAF F-35As launched from Japan’s Kadena and Iwakuni bases."

“This is the first time F-35As have flown directly from a home base in North America into the first island chain to participate in a tactical training mission,” says USAF Lieutenant Colonel Michael Mickus.


“This flight demonstrates the USAF’s ability to deploy fighter aircraft from Alaska directly into potential combat operations in a highly relevant part of the world.”

 

[Picdelamirand-oil]

So 10.5hr is VERY long by your standard..OK I guess the F-35 was a VERY VERY long mission

Read the link, silly boy. just more of your Rafale nonsense.
"Lockheed Martin F-35As operated by the US Air Force (USAF) have performed a long-range sortie from North America to Japan simulating a combat mission.

The work saw four F-35As of the 355th Fighter Squadron launch from Eilson AFB in Alaska and fly 10h to Japan, where they joined up to perform an exercise with other USAF F-35As launched from Japan’s Kadena and Iwakuni bases."

“This is the first time F-35As have flown directly from a home base in North America into the first island chain to participate in a tactical training mission,” says USAF Lieutenant Colonel Michael Mickus.


“This flight demonstrates the USAF’s ability to deploy fighter aircraft from Alaska directly into potential combat operations in a highly relevant part of the world.”

We're not going to play who's got the biggest, but 10.5 hours is longer than 10 hours and it ended with a real war mission, not an exercise. For the exercises I gave examples of two missions where the distances were twice as long as this war mission.

 

[Optimist]

We're not going to play who's got the biggest, but 10.5 hours is longer than 10 hours and it ended with a real war mission, not an exercise. For the exercises I gave examples of two missions where the distances were twice as long as this war mission.

It's not my fault you are butthurt. With F4.2 being a failure to deliver what was planned. You brought the flight subject up. As a way of making an excuse for the Rafale being not technically sufficient with HMD and cockpit screens, from a linked article not a forum.

You said how wonderful it was to fly 10.5h, with the weak necks of the french pilots. unable to wear what other air forces do. (I will note that none of the rafale flights actually had a HMD)
Where the F-35 flew 10hr to joint up with a mission while underway. Did the mission and then land in Japan. As i said, they didn't give a total air time, but it would be 12-13hr min. I'm pretty sure that is longer than the Rafale 10.5hr.

How do you think australian gets and sends F-35 to the US and other counties, by ship?
I don't know what is the furthest flight with stopovers are for fighters. I doubt that the Rafale holds the record.

Given that with the Australian exercise, a Rafale broke on the way and was left behind to be repaired. Does that still count?