That's what I said:
"Hence all the joint risk-sharing & cost-sharing partnerships in Europe "
Rafale DH/EH of Indian Air Force : News and Discussions
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That's what I said:
"Hence all the joint risk-sharing & cost-sharing partnerships in Europe "
- why are we looking for new naval fighter instead of mig 29K
- Which Aesa radar is ready with them
- Will Russia permit us to install Uttam? Or give their source code?
- What modern weapons they have that ll be game changing
+ AMCA itself carries only 4 missiles internally
+ LCA can at best carry 2 stealth gondolas under wing in quasi stealth mode.
In terms of LCC, the Mig-29/35 are not cheaper than Rafale. And the French are much more willing than the Russians when it comes to ToT. For example, the French wanted to make 100% of the Rafale's engine and airframe in India during MMRCA, which is far, far more than what has come in through MKI.
And we can continue dealing with the Russians through PAK FA and more S-400 deals.
There's no such thing as a stealth LCA.
1- Mig 29k are now old airframe and Russians don't have a brand new solution. I agree to the fact that avionics of rafale is better than Migs but it comes with a hefty price tag too. We need a cheaper fighter which we can mass produce. You can't compare the needs of IAF and IN since IN don't need fighters in such a large quantity.
2- Please elaborate it. Which fighter are you referring?
3- Yes!!!
4- K77-m
IAF needs 6-7 bases. 2 in North India, 2 or 3 in the east, 1 in the west and 1 in Central India.
And the navy need 3 bases. 1 for the Eastern Fleet, 1 for the Western Fleet and 1 in A&N Islands. A&N Islands is tri-services, so the IAF will also be able to operate it.
But right now, we technically have 3. Apart from the 2 bases in North (Ambala) and East India (Hasimara), the Mirage 2000 base in Gwalior will also be used to support Rafale operations.
This has nothing to do with L1. It was during contract negotiations that Snecma said they will transfer 100% of the engine for production in India.
If they are ready to transfer much more advanced engine tech through offsets for Kaveri, then it's not surprising that they are willing to transfer older tech for production purposes.
MKI was a badly negotiated deal and this world you don't get what you deserve but what you negotiate. Stop putting the blame on other side for your incompetence. Now Russians are ready to provide 100% technology which I bet France will never provide.
I don't know from where did you get this information but it is not true. FHC of Rafale is $45000 whereas in case of mig 35 it is $35000.
And yes there will be a stealth LCA
IN wants 200 fighter jets. Whatever they choose through MRCBF, there is a plan to procure 100+ more of the jets later on, especially if the first 57 are produced in India.
IAF also has the option of using I-Derby ER instead of K-77M. The I-Derby ER's seeker is combat proven through Iron Dome and is AESA, and the missile has a ridiculously high lifespan of 25 years. Also, we already have a modern ecosystem for maintaining the missile because of the SPYDER deal.
And with the Russians we are already developing the SFDR.
So we have no need of the K-77M.
1- Who told you IN wants 200 fighters??
@vstol Jockey sir please clear this point.
2- Go and compare I-derby ER and K77-m and then you will realise the difference.
By the way SFDR is in totally different league.
The MKI deal wasn't badly negotiated. A lot of things were left out because of HAL's inability to do it.
The Russians have no plan on providing India with 100% tech, and Russian tech on the Mig-35 is too old anyway, there is no use to getting this tech. PAK FA tech is much more interesting.
It's not.
Airfame life:
Rafale - 8000 hours, can be doubled.
Mig-35 - 6000 hours, can be increased by a few more thousand hours.
Engine:
M88-4E - 7000 hours... highly modular
RD-33 - 4000 hours... completely outdated
With just this alone, it will tell you that Rafale is already cheaper in LCC versus Mig-35.
When you actually start comparing the airframe and engine in detail, you will learn that the Rafale helps save costs a whole lot more than the Mig-35 can. So, no, neither the Mig-35 nor the MKI are cheaper than the Rafale.
And that will be the end of physics.
What you are referring to is a plan to develop a more advanced version of LCA after MWF. That's 2035-40. So good luck. They are only planning this for export prospects, not for the IAF.[/quote]
IN.
I've seen it, and I-Derby ER is better. That's why IAF wants this missile on MKI instead of going for the K-77M. The Russians were complaining about it only the other day.
That's why we do not need K-77M. And after I Derby ER comes in, we can switch over to Astra Mk2.
The long term plan of IN with three aircraft carriers is to have 200 fighter aircraft. we already have 46 and now we want another 57 for second one. The need will go up for the third carrier. Plus we want to take over the defence of coastal assets and deep sea strike role from IAF. And for that we need three additional fighter squadrons.
So now you are eating your own words? Even this statement of yours too signifies that it was not Russian fault due to which we didn't get full tot of su30mki.
They have and they will. Due to US sanctions they are desperate for big defence deals that is why if they couldn't provide full tot then no one else too.
Regarding to your second part even our IAF chief said mig 35 is a totally new aircraft with new radar, sensors and avionics. Please recall 7 years ago mig 29m2 was rejected on this very basis of having old tech but Russians have improved much from then.
I agree SU 57 tech is interesting but since it is totally different fighter for totally different role there is no point in discussing it. Additionally I have doubt that Russians will provide us tech of this aircraft.
Sir the cost of airframe and engine renewal is something you have to incur once in a year or 2 but fly hour cost is something you have to bear daily that is why even if we accept your data as such still mig 35 is overall cheaper than Rafale.
I refrain from further arguing this point as everything will be clear in coming years.
Don't be naïve. If you give an inch to the Americans, they'll grab the whole arm.
If you start accepting that you have to buy shit from them to avoid sanctions, the message you send is that sanctions work on you. Don't fall in that trap. Never let Americans negotiate from a position of strength. Don't buy F-21 to avoid CAATSA; instead tell them you will not even consider buying their POS rebranded F-16 because of CAATSA.
The range of I-Derby ER is far less than K77-M. K77-M has the largest NEZ. Plus for engaging targets in intermediate range we should use missiles with rocket motors instead of missiles with ductable ramjet.
Hence we would need both SFDR and K77-M.
