Dassault has been quite explicit than any further Rafale order will see the MII production from DRAL and Indian subcontractors ramp up. I doubt they could achieve 100% MII with just 36 more, especially on the subcontractors' side as they would be quite reluctant to make big investments if they aren't assured they'll get enough work to amortize the costs, but it'd see significant progress, and help sell the promise that 100% MII would be in reach with Rafale selected for MRCBF or MMRCA2.
Rafale DH/EH of Indian Air Force : News and Discussions
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We will have 72 rafales in all.
Mmrca will drag on until finally replaced by tejas mwf which will be ordered in numbers.None of the contenders ( rafale or f21)are cheap enough to procure 114 of.Would cost upwards of 25-30billion dollars,and none are 5th gen,getting them as new fighters in 2030s is suicidal fallacy.Tejas mwf would be cheaper,with total control over tech,payment in rupee rather than dollars,industry development and lead to amca.Without it as intermediary, amca is a pipedream.
Ultimately by 2026-27 we will have 14 mki sq,6 lca mk1/1a sq,2 jaguar( 52 built after 2000) ,4 mig29,3m2k,4 rafale - Total 33 squadrons.Mki upgrade would have begun already.
Next decade would be finishing mki upgrade,mass induction of Tejas mwf and paving way for amca.If at this time( 2025-27) we find we need help for aerospace industry regarding amca and if we find tejas mwf delayed and if we have money ( possible) then you will see mmrca 2.
Mmrca will drag on until finally replaced by tejas mwf which will be ordered in numbers.None of the contenders ( rafale or f21)are cheap enough to procure 114 of.Would cost upwards of 25-30billion dollars,and none are 5th gen,getting them as new fighters in 2030s is suicidal fallacy.Tejas mwf would be cheaper,with total control over tech,payment in rupee rather than dollars,industry development and lead to amca.Without it as intermediary, amca is a pipedream.
Ultimately by 2026-27 we will have 14 mki sq,6 lca mk1/1a sq,2 jaguar( 52 built after 2000) ,4 mig29,3m2k,4 rafale - Total 33 squadrons.Mki upgrade would have begun already.
Next decade would be finishing mki upgrade,mass induction of Tejas mwf and paving way for amca.If at this time( 2025-27) we find we need help for aerospace industry regarding amca and if we find tejas mwf delayed and if we have money ( possible) then you will see mmrca 2.
Just the assembly line alone will be a big deal. But what can really expand the production line is the IN's MRCBF. The MRCBF has a local production clause that directly benefits Dassault.
(q) Does the company have any strategic partnership with any government/ private aircraft manufacturer/ designer?
(r) Is the company willing to setup production centres in India as part of offset obligations?
(s) Indigenisation Content. Level of indigenisation in content and design, in percentage, is to be clearly indicated for all components of the core and associated equipment that is being quoted by the Vendors. The acquisition category will be based on this information, as detailed in DPP-2016.
(k) ToT. GoI is desirous of license production of the aircraft after acquiring ToT in the case.
As mentioned above, the 30% offsets can help fund the expansion of the production line.
I doubt it now.
France may get another 36 Made in France Rafale order and then its a closure on Rafales. India will push for cheaper option under Make in India for 100+ fighters.
Even I am now coming around to the point that the Americans might get the deal for remaining 114 fighters.
The IAF's 36 and IN's 57 will allow a full fledged MII line with almost full production. IN will follow that up with further orders. So even if IAF doesn't get more jets, IN will.
Also, Dassault plans to set up an assembly line with just an order for 36, the same line can also make Falcons, so it's not a loss for them even if IN's line doesn't get in.
There won't be a cheaper option. Both Typhoon and SH are still very expensive, even more so once ISE comes into the picture.
I feel the same Rafales will limited to 72 i e 4 squadrons but American F21 aka F16 is still unwarranted , Americans should offer something better
You'll get no support from the US there. All US support is only meant to be against China.
To deal with Kashmir, ie, Pakistan as a whole, we need Russian and Iranian support much more than American.
The Americans have no desire to help us solve the Kashmir problem.
I think the opposite actually. Mk1A will go through while MWF is a question mark. So if we do got F-21 of Gripen E, it's going to be in lieu of MWF.
As for Mk1A, it's progressed a lot. We are expecting a contract signature this year.
Rafale deal: France may offer 36 more Rafale aircraft to India
6 billion € .. Why so costly?
Unless a new base or some other weapons are included..
Will F4 cost so much over F3R?
@randomradio @bonplan
6 billion € .. Why so costly?
Unless a new base or some other weapons are included..
Will F4 cost so much over F3R?
@randomradio @bonplan
There will never be a 100% MII. Exemple : the crystal blades of the hot part of the engine will never be produced in India. Too sensible, too difficult to produce, too highly sensitive and costly équipement needed.
As for now, only the F3R is developed.
F4 is only at the beginning of the study phase. Nothing to come before 2022 at the earlier. So the F4 price is not known yet.
It was write in the newspaper "less than 6 billion". 5 billion is less
. And all depend of how deep and long is the support, the weapon package, etc...
As for now, only the F3R is developed.
F4 is only at the beginning of the study phase. Nothing to come before 2022 at the earlier. So the F4 price is not known yet.
It was write in the newspaper "less than 6 billion". 5 billion is less
And all depend of how deep and long is the support, the weapon package, etc...
U mean it's not going to be F4?
~40 more Su-30
72-90 Rafales
114 Lockheed F-21
83 LCA Mk-1A
57 Rafale M
That's all we really need. The MWF by 2030 is a pointless acquisition when you have all of that capability available today in form of F-21/Gripen. That project should be terminated - it would be too little too late by the time it makes it to service...a repeat of Mk-1 saga.
Additional MiG-29s in my opinion are a waste of capex. They will outlive their usefulness very very soon. As will MKI if the upgrade doesn't move through.
Next Gen fighter project should be pursued in partnership with Dassault/Airbus. Any purchase (off shelf or otherwise) of Su-57 should be avoided if at all possible...it'd be more trouble than it's worth.
72-90 Rafales
114 Lockheed F-21
83 LCA Mk-1A
57 Rafale M
That's all we really need. The MWF by 2030 is a pointless acquisition when you have all of that capability available today in form of F-21/Gripen. That project should be terminated - it would be too little too late by the time it makes it to service...a repeat of Mk-1 saga.
Additional MiG-29s in my opinion are a waste of capex. They will outlive their usefulness very very soon. As will MKI if the upgrade doesn't move through.
Next Gen fighter project should be pursued in partnership with Dassault/Airbus. Any purchase (off shelf or otherwise) of Su-57 should be avoided if at all possible...it'd be more trouble than it's worth.
You are basically asking to end the domestic fighter program.Without mastering mwf you cant go into amca production.Infact mmrca 2 should be avoided and given to mwf, all contenders are 80% price of rafale and non 5th gen..so no different from mwf.Just get 36 more rafales..1 sq each of mig and sukhoi..upgrade the sukhoi..and 4 lca mk1a.Then mwf.If the down the line more squadrons are needed we can make a 3rd rafale 2sq batch purchase.
Above is best option unless we need extensive industrial help which only mmrca 2 can provide and without which mwf or amca will be stuck.Thats the big argument for mrca 2.If we can build mwf world class on our own..no need for mrca2.Just a rafale batch and filler sukhoi/mig.
So u want IAF to place their bets on an aircraft (MWF) which is still in drawing boards!!! With no guarantee of time frame, delays, roadblocks nd most importantly lax workmanship of HAL nd DRDO!!!
Any sane mind in IAF won't simply trust on infamous HAL as depicted from it's delinquent attitude!!! Few months ago..A newly upgraded mirage2k straight from HAL plant crashed... In which we lost precious lifes of our two pilots...with all fingers pointing towards hal lax workmanship.. IAF was furious nd rightly so!! There was no PILOT ERROR.. this is what IAF was yelling about despicable HAL..nd this is not a single incident!! Case against HAL Is pretty strong!!
Mirage 2000 Crash: HAL Comes Under Cloud | NewsClick
Now, what is the guarantee HAL won't fluff mwf this time!! Who is accountable for delays.. if again IAF is left clutching at straws.. due to mitigating squadrons strength!!...
I will rather place my bet on any private player.. to foray in Indian aerospace industry...with SP model.. ending monopoly of infamous HAL once for nd all!! MMRCA 2.0 is the breathing line for IAF to their dwindling squadrons strength.. with mmrca in kitty.. even if hal fluffs (high chance) with MWF.. iaf won't be left in a state of quagmire!! Rather involve private players manufacturing MMRCA locally in AMCA they will have high chance delivering required aircraft at required timeframe as compared to HAL!!
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