Rafale DH/EH of Indian Air Force : News and Discussions

Bon Plan said:
Indian Rafale will have a brand-new IRST. Don't forget that development of Indian standard is intended in 2022, with the last plane. So this new IRST may probably not be ft itted on the first planes delivered, but on the last one for sure (and all the others).
Indian SPECTRA will be more evolved than French one : better fitted for low band. But SPECTRA is evolving at all time! GaN is in the pipe, as new multistatic technology....
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Apparently IAF has already starting testing ISE upgraded rafale by using a 17 year old testbed rafale.. as mentioned in article from last year
IAF tests Rafale jet with India-specific enhancements | India News - Times of India

So can't we expect ISE upgraded rafale to feature in india sooner then 2022?
The tidbits of ISE upgrades have come out but i believe there are many eminent details of upgrade still being privy to iaf nd dassault..

Will Indian rafale BR will incorporate technologies meant for rafale f4?? as u have mentioned about IRST will it be newer FSO IT uprade which dassault has conceived for rafale f4 version

nd about Indian specific spectra.. there is also one specific of Low band jammers in ISE.. will it be an internal jammer or an external one a la Israeli lite shield?? Do french have their alternative of low band jammers nd towed decoys system to offer in ISE??
 
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Amit228 said:
I hope so... But out of 13 ISE upgrades we have ordered.. IRST isn't mentioned neither is two way datalink for meteor missile... However if one looks at amount we are paying for ISE upgrades (1.9 billion dollars)
It is too exorbitant for the reportedly mentioned upgrades.. there may me many imperatives like IRST nd two way datalink of meteor well nd truly included.. or else it won't just justify the price..

for the same price of ISE upgrades we could have bought few more french standard F3R rafales.. but all is speculation now..

True capability of Indian rafale won't be available in public domain.. even if it lands in india.. however the first obvious giveaway will be IRST
I expect to see this...with IRST nd tv-laser
View attachment 9469

Instead of this a la french rafale
View attachment 9470
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Without indian specific upgrades,planes would not fit our requitements.
We needed its navigation system to support our satellite networking system.
We needed more powerful OBOGS for sustained ops in high altitude areas,a critical requirement.
Also hardening of engines so they can operate from ladakh and north east extreme cold temperatures at altitudes.
Quad pack ejectors for improved weapon load.
Towed decoy fibre optic system for SEAD and other ops in contested airspace.
Upgraded spectra with our specific threat library and anti stealth band apertures.
Integration of standard israrli hmds and litening pod.
Integration of israeli spice bombs,indian brahmos,astra and glide bombs.
The irst we get is the fso sensor.We can upgrade it once newer version becomes available.F3r will anyway later be upgraded to more modern version during mlu.
Its almost certain if first batches do well IAF will order another 36 at least f4 variant after 2024.2026 is when mica ng arrives.
The j20 is not really stealth..frontally its close but the canards mess it up,sides and rear are not stealth,engines are unshielded and not 5th gen quality.Our su30 and ground radars picked them up in tibet recently.(though this might have been when it was flying sideways to radar rather than front on, not disclosed)
 
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Amit228 said:
Apparently IAF has already starting testing ISE upgraded rafale by using a 17 year old testbed rafale.. as mentioned in article from last year
IAF tests Rafale jet with India-specific enhancements | India News - Times of India

So can't we expect ISE upgraded rafale to feature in india sooner then 2022?
The tidbits of ISE upgrades have come out but i believe there are many eminent details of upgrade still being privy to iaf nd dassault..

Will Indian rafale BR will incorporate technologies meant for rafale f4?? as u have mentioned about IRST will it be newer FSO IT uprade which dassault has conceived for rafale f4 version

nd about Indian specific spectra.. there is also one specific of Low band jammers in ISE.. will it be an internal jammer or an external one a la Israeli lite shield?? Do french have their alternative of low band jammers nd towed decoys system to offer in ISE??
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Fully configured Rafale with all ISE will become operationally available only in Septermber/October 2023.
 
Austerlitz said:
Without indian specific upgrades,planes would not fit our requitements.
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Yes but you still would be able to use Meteor and Scalp against Pakistan.
We needed its navigation system to support our satellite networking system.
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French weapons systems are designed to fullfil their specifications without the need to use GPS. GPS is only for confort.
We needed more powerful OBOGS for sustained ops in high altitude areas,a critical requirement.
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You only add some filters, this could be done with the first delivery
Also hardening of engines so they can operate from ladakh and north east extreme cold temperatures at altitudes.
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Just to faster operations: Rafale and Gripen were the only plane which succeded the tests in leh base during MMRCA evaluation.
Quad pack ejectors for improved weapon load.
Towed decoy fibre optic system for SEAD and other ops in contested airspace.
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OK
Upgraded spectra with our specific threat library and anti stealth band apertures.
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Your specific threat library would be integrated by you for security reasons, the way to do that is part of the training of your technical team wich is currently done in France.
Integration of standard israrli hmds and litening pod.
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Already done as for the Qatari
Integration of israeli spice bombs,indian brahmos,astra and glide bombs.
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OK
The irst we get is the fso sensor.We can upgrade it once newer version becomes available.F3r will anyway later be upgraded to more modern version during mlu.
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Not during MLU but for F 4. (2022/2024) so for you september 2022.
 
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Picdelamirand-oil said:
Just to faster operations: Rafale and Gripen were the only plane which succeded the tests in leh base during MMRCA evaluation.
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All jets cleared Leh trials. When it was first reported, 4 out of 5 failed trials the first time. After some on-site modifications, all 5 jets cleared. Gripen came in much later and cleared it the first time, possibly benefiting from the experience of the other 5.

Clearing Leh is not a big deal for a modern jet considering all jets made today already operate in such cold environment, like the Arctic.
 
m_itsme said:
So these sexy sheilas will be in India only next year? Why cant the evals be done in India itself? Also, any idea how many sheilas in the first batch and what variants?
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All Rafale deliveries were made in France, both to Egypt and Qatar. During the evaluation tests there is Dassault and flight tests assistance : there is real-time monitoring of what is happening in the aircraft during the flight and assistance to the pilot if he no longer knows at which stage of his sequence he is because the aircraft is new to him. And there is a need for familiarization before making a flight of several thousand kilometres, in particular you need to practice in-flight refuelling.
 
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Picdelamirand-oil said:
All Rafale deliveries were made in France, both to Egypt and Qatar. During the evaluation tests there is Dassault and flight tests assistance : there is real-time monitoring of what is happening in the aircraft during the flight and assistance to the pilot if he no longer knows at which stage of his sequence he is because the aircraft is new to him. And there is a need for familiarization before making a flight of several thousand kilometres, in particular you need to practice in-flight refuelling.
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Sir, could you share the month wise delivery schedule. Remember you had given a table with deliveries till 2022 on the older forum. Thanks
 
Picdelamirand-oil said:
All Rafale deliveries were made in France, both to Egypt and Qatar. During the evaluation tests there is Dassault and flight tests assistance : there is real-time monitoring of what is happening in the aircraft during the flight and assistance to the pilot if he no longer knows at which stage of his sequence he is because the aircraft is new to him. And there is a need for familiarization before making a flight of several thousand kilometres, in particular you need to practice in-flight refuelling.
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France like anyother European nation takes responsibility for the aircraft they deliver only till they leave their air space and enter international air space. After that the responsibility is that of the nation which has bought them. I have taken delivery of two A320s from Airbus and also done acceptance flight test of them with Airbus test pilots. I signed for them based on the authority given to me as the acceptance Captain and ferried them to India. I can say that people buy cars but I have bought and signed for aircraft. LOL.
The insurance of the aircraft started the moment we left French air space and we had to keep a very accurate time of that moment.
 
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Picdelamirand-oil said:
All Rafale deliveries were made in France, both to Egypt and Qatar. During the evaluation tests there is Dassault and flight tests assistance : there is real-time monitoring of what is happening in the aircraft during the flight and assistance to the pilot if he no longer knows at which stage of his sequence he is because the aircraft is new to him. And there is a need for familiarization before making a flight of several thousand kilometres, in particular you need to practice in-flight refuelling.
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Fighter jets do not need to be flown from Dassault all the way to the client country. They are generally disassembled and transported by heavy transport aircraft.
 
randomradio said:
Fighter jets do not need to be flown from Dassault all the way to the client country. They are generally disassembled and transported by heavy transport aircraft.
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It's a Russian approach :). When French Rafale made a visit to Australia it was not by heavy transport and also for Garuda exercises and delivery to Egypte and Qatar too.
 
Immortal said:
Sir, could you share the month wise delivery schedule. Remember you had given a table with deliveries till 2022 on the older forum. Thanks
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Production Rafale.png

Dassault Rafale — Wikipédia
Production for India will be roughtly 1 by month and there is some time between production and delivery at the begining due to test, training and so on but at the end this delay is reduced. I think that India will have only 12 Rafale in 2021 and 8 in 2022 because it is possible that Egypte, Qatar or France ask for some Rafale in 2021 (Egypte wants to buy 12 more Rafale and Qatar have an option for 36 more Rafale) normaly the delivery is planned to be completed in june 2022 with a retrofit between June and September to upgrade the Indian Specific Enhancement. It will take only a few days to upgrade a Rafale with ISE.
 
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Picdelamirand-oil said:
It's a Russian approach :). When French Rafale made a visit to Australia it was not by heavy transport and also for Garuda exercises and delivery to Egypte and Qatar too.
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Operational jets make such long flight. All the MKI and Jaguar flights to the US from India for exercises were flown, not transported.

But yeah, if the upgraded M2000s were flown to India, so can the Rafales.
 
Picdelamirand-oil said:
View attachment 9482
Dassault Rafale — Wikipédia
Production for India will be roughtly 1 by month and there is some time between production and delivery at the begining due to test, training and so on but at the end this delay is reduced. I think that India will have only 12 Rafale in 2021 and 8 in 2022 because it is possible that Egypte, Qatar or France ask for some Rafale in 2021 (Egypte wants to buy 12 more Rafale and Qatar have an option for 36 more Rafale) normaly the delivery is planned to be completed in june 2022 with a retrofit between June and September to upgrade the Indian Specific Enhancement. It will take only a few days to upgrade a Rafale with ISE.
Click to expand...


If I may ask. Do you think if IAF needed Rafales sooner than the current schedule due to a requirement, given they put in more orders for Rafales. Will Dassault be able to ramp up production to deliver Rafales to IAF sooner than Egypt or Qatar?
 
Amit228 said:
Apparently IAF has already starting testing ISE upgraded rafale by using a 17 year old testbed rafale.. as mentioned in article from last year
IAF tests Rafale jet with India-specific enhancements | India News - Times of India

So can't we expect ISE upgraded rafale to feature in india sooner then 2022?
The tidbits of ISE upgrades have come out but i believe there are many eminent details of upgrade still being privy to iaf nd dassault..

Will Indian rafale BR will incorporate technologies meant for rafale f4?? as u have mentioned about IRST will it be newer FSO IT uprade which dassault has conceived for rafale f4 version

nd about Indian specific spectra.. there is also one specific of Low band jammers in ISE.. will it be an internal jammer or an external one a la Israeli lite shield?? Do french have their alternative of low band jammers nd towed decoys system to offer in ISE??
Click to expand...
The Indian improvements will be incorporated in the fleet as soon as they will be validated if they are software add on. If they are hardware, I don't know. Maybe by batch, and not one after one.
The Indian Rafale are F3R. They are fully ready to receive F4 technologies (not the case of all the French ones...). Maybe some hardware will have to be changed (ie GaN Spectra antennae).
I don't know if the Indian FSO and the French F4 ones are similar or not. Probably yes, so as to reduce the R&D costs.
Jammer : all internal. Pods are old solutions.
Towed decoys? I don't know. French will use electronic non reusable decoys.
 
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