Rafale DH/EH of Indian Air Force : News and Discussions

MKI was a badly negotiated deal and this world you don't get what you deserve but what you negotiate. Stop putting the blame on other side for your incompetence. Now Russians are ready to provide 100% technology which I bet France will never provide.

I don't know from where did you get this information but it is not true. FHC of Rafale is $45000 whereas in case of mig 35 it is $35000.
And yes there will be a stealth LCA
YOU ARE DEEPLY WRONG ABOUT RAFALE.
French Senate report calculate it to 14000 Euros if I remember well.
 
In the Rafale case it's not an appealing marketing data from Dassault, but the real cost calculated by French govt.
So what?? Just because government is involved it doesn't mean expenses will be in control. In real world governments are more notorious for cost overruns. F22 is a classic example.
 
That's what I said:

"Hence all the joint risk-sharing & cost-sharing partnerships in Europe "
The Rafale programme has shown that we do not save money by making a cooperative programme.
Normally, cooperation makes it possible to share development costs and benefit from reduced production costs due to the larger volume to be produced. But in fact the increase in cost due to technocracy more than compensates for these advantages.
 
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Probably not 100%.
For exemple I don't think possible and affordable to produce M88 crystal blades in India.
Same for some electronic core sub systems.

That's how it was during MMRCA. Now, it's up to profitability.

But I think if we are to make K10 with new SCBs, which will be made in India if the deal works out, then the same thing can become part of the Rafale production also.

As for electronics, ToT will be significantly less there. I was talking only about airframe and engine.
 
So you have no confidence in the program at all?
I have no confidence in Germany for such a program. Dassault wants subcontractors to be selected on the basis of merit, and Germany will require that this be on a pro rata basis. And so we will select inefficient companies which will increase costs.
 
I have no confidence in Germany for such a program. Dassault wants subcontractors to be selected on the basis of merit, and Germany will require that this be on a pro rata basis. And so we will select inefficient companies which will increase costs.

Why not just make 2 separate production lines? Then whatever problem comes up will be entirely their own headache. Spain can also have their own production line.

India's FGFA program had 2 entirely independent production lines, so it's definitely doable.

But what I thought would be problems when it comes to development. How will R&D be shared?
 
I have full confidence that any European-led collaborative defense program will be over budget, behind schedule and underwhelming... looking at you NH90. It's a theme. The more nations you put on a program the more program requirements you have to full-fill and meet for each nation's national defence requirements and this in turn both complicates the development cycle and increases cost. This is by no means a European problem, in fact it's rather common.

Like usual I want Norway to have nothing to do with the rest of Europe outside of the Nordic Bloc and Russia and that includes the FCAS program.

Taiwan already has base, training, simulator, maintenance program everything. .

Cost comes to 120 million $ a pop even after that.

Not exactly cheaper.

So if I'm reading you correctly, you're saying that Pakistan isn't buying 24 new F-16s for 150 million $:ROFLMAO:.

In any event the F-21 is a turd, and while I do respect the capabilities of the F-16 Block 70 for nations already using the F-16 with an active industrial base and support infrastructure, it's a joke of an aircraft as far as India is concerned. Sexy, but a joke.

slovakia-selects-lockheed-martin-f-16v-over-saab-gripen-to-replace-its-ageing-mig-29-jets.jpeg
 
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I have full confidence that any European-led collaborative defense program will be over budget, behind schedule and underwhelming... looking at you NH90. It's a theme. The more nations you put on a program the more program requirements you have to full-full and meet for each nation's national defence requirements. This is by no means a European problem, in fact it's rather common.

Like usual I want Norway to have nothing to do with the rest of Europe outside of the Nordic Bloc and Russia and that includes the FCAS program.

Good thing India's not gonna face that problem in the future. Lone wolf programs in the future for us.

So if I'm reading you correctly, you're saying that Pakistan isn't buying 24 new F-16s for 150 million $:ROFLMAO:.

In any event the F-21 is a turd, and while I do respect the capabilities of the F-16 Block 70 for nations already using and the F-16 with an active industrial base and support infrastructure, it's a joke of an aircraft as far as India is concerned. Sexy, but a joke.

slovakia-selects-lockheed-martin-f-16v-over-saab-gripen-to-replace-its-ageing-mig-29-jets.jpeg

Nobody in the business is even seriously considering the F-16 to be anything for the IAF.

Here's some glowing tributes for it.
Failed Lockheed Martin F 16 carries no improvement potential for India, say IAF veterans
According to Air Marshal M Matheswaran (retd), former deputy chief Integrated Defence Staff, “F-16’s airframe is a third generation design that has outlived its utility. It cannot measure up to even 4th generation aircraft any more, despite all the avionics upgrades. Its components, aggregates, fuel efficiency, life cycle costs, will all be in the 3rd generation.”

More importantly, nobody proposing the F-16 here has an idea about IAF's requirements and their need for twin engine jets in this class.
 
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That's how it was during MMRCA. Now, it's up to profitability.

But I think if we are to make K10 with new SCBs, which will be made in India if the deal works out, then the same thing can become part of the Rafale production also.

As for electronics, ToT will be significantly less there. I was talking only about airframe and engine.
There are différents générations of crystal blades...
K10 is more happy to the M53 gen than M88 one.
 
The Rafale programme has shown that we do not save money by making a cooperative programme.
Normally, cooperation makes it possible to share development costs and benefit from reduced production costs due to the larger volume to be produced. But in fact the increase in cost due to technocracy more than compensates for these advantages.
Not in the Neuron case. The sole and only solution is to have a sole ans strong technical leader.
EF was managed from the beginning by BAe and MBB. One was in excess.
 
Is the rafale going to get a 2 way datalink for meteor in future?
Also how good is the fso irst sensor in rafale compared to the long wave irst PIRATE in eurofighter?