Rafale DH/EH of Indian Air Force : News and Discussions

[Parthu]

Rafale aircraft pylons now made in Indian by Indian firm Defsys Integrated Systems in Gurgaon. Here’s the first one to be delivered shortly + the full list of Indian firms that will contribute to global Rafales. pic.twitter.com/XBOAGhn3zD

— Livefist (@livefist) February 20, 2019

 

[Picdelamirand-oil]

Just went through the old airforce monthly article and except for the GaN part, they were spot on with what is reported now.

There is no need to worry about Radar upgrades, jammers and communication of the Rafale. The official communication is very brief but the reality is great.
For example, here is a deThales slide that has leaked, although Thales explicitly asks, on the image, not to distribute this information.

It shows the location of the new Radar antennas and the technological advance that reduces the thickness of the antennas.
I would like to make two comments:
- The tile antenna can only be done using GaN because otherwise the heat concentration would be too high in the new antenna.
- The 25 cm reduction in the thickness of the front antenna slightly increases the diameter of the antenna, which should allow the addition of about 160 T/R modules

 

[randomradio]

There is no need to worry about Radar upgrades, jammers and communication of the Rafale. The official communication is very brief but the reality is great.
For example, here is a deThales slide that has leaked, although Thales explicitly asks, on the image, not to distribute this information.

It shows the location of the new Radar antennas and the technological advance that reduces the thickness of the antennas.
I would like to make two comments:
- The tile antenna can only be done using GaN because otherwise the heat concentration would be too high in the new antenna.
- The 25 cm reduction in the thickness of the front antenna slightly increases the diameter of the antenna, which should allow the addition of about 160 T/R modules

What happened to the plan to remove the radar from the nose?

 

[Sancho]

The 'industry' doesn't care if the product is military or commercial. Industry only cares how much of the know-how is coming in, and how important the local manufacturing scene becomes at the global stage.

That's nonsense, because know how of building a commercial aircraft, doesn't help you to design and develop a combat fighter/helicopter. That's why it is important that companies like Adani and Kalyani are investing into defence specific know how. Without Kalyani buying the Austrian gun manufacturer, there would be no ATAGS today. Without the know how of bofors guns, Dhanush would not be available either. Without Reliance producing parts of Rafale, they don't learn anything to improve their defence aviation know how.

Therein lies the fallacy of TATA's "entrepreneurship". TATA is chasing an assured market. Unless there is an assured order from IAF/IN, they refuse to get a production line to India - of any aircraft.

DRAL's Falcon on the other hand, is not chasing an assured order from anyone - its chasing a POTENTIAL market.

Between the two, DRAL is the bigger entrepreneur.

Lol so now you shifting from what is better for India and the defence aviation field, to who is the better entrepreneur? And that between Reliance and TATA?

Simple - you. I never said or implied DRAL was the first to have an assembly line ...

...The implication was always that DRAL is the first private company to do so.

Even your attempt to distract from the distraction, contradicts you.

 

[Sancho]

Btw there more news about Dassaults partner today

https://twitter.com/x/status/1098152792580075520

At the same time

https://twitter.com/x/status/1098164101220614144

 

[Parthu]

That's nonsense, because know how of building a commercial aircraft, doesn't help you to design and develop a combat fighter/helicopter.

So you think TATA can design & develop it's own fighter by assembling C-130J parts?

Lol so now you shifting from what is better for India and the defence aviation field, to who is the better entrepreneur? And that between Reliance and TATA?

Entrepreneurship is what makes something better for India. That's why despite being active in aviation field for 11 years, TATA is unable to bring a single production line to India - of any aircraft, military or civil.

And it's pretty much assured - unless they manage to land a contract with the IAF, even in next 15 years, India won't get a single complete production line out of TATA.

Even your attempt to distract from the distraction, contradicts you.

It doesn't, you just need to read better -

"
I never said or implied DRAL was the first to have an assembly line ...

...The implication was always that DRAL is the first private company to do so. "

 

[Sancho]

Entrepreneurship is what makes something better for India.

Which is exactly why Kalyani, Adani and TATA are the most promising companies for Indias defence, while Reliance keeps proving 1 failure after the other.

It doesn't, you just need to read better -

"
I never said or implied DRAL was the first to have an assembly line ...

...The implication was always that DRAL is the first private company to do so. "

 

[Parthu]

Which is exactly why Kalyani, Adani and TATA are the most promising companies for Indias defence, while Reliance keeps proving 1 failure after the other.

Waiting for any of those companies to show up with an aircraft production line in India.

Oh wait... They can't.

 

[Proud_Indian]

@Parthu though I mostly agree with your arguments but don't you think TATA already has an assembly line for DO-228 and PC-12

 

[Parthu]

@Parthu though I mostly agree with your arguments but don't you think TATA already has an assembly line for DO-228 and PC-12

View attachment 4457

They produce major aerostructures is all, they don't have a final assembly line for either.

 

[Picdelamirand-oil]

What happened to the plan to remove the radar from the nose?

It seems it is not needed with the new configuration of antenna.

 

[Bon Plan]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1098077808016965633

the Offsets are a reality now

 

[Herciv]

It seems it is not needed with the new configuration of antenna.

Meaning you can imagine a 3D radar for example with a cone together with an annular parts. No more tiles needed for an 270° field of view with an easy integration.

 

[Bon Plan]

Meaning you can imagine a 3D radar for example with a cone together with an annular parts. No more tiles needed for an 270° field of view with an easy integration.

My own thinking was 2 eliptical antennas (or not eleptical...) in the cone, each viewing 70° L and R away from the axis of the cone.

 

[The enlightened]

Same story with IFRs. With delivery commencing for Rafale, Chinook and Apache which means higher installment commitments and contracts for Kamov and MK1A due, where is the money to cater for these long standing requirements? But anyways the defence budget has crossed 3 Lakh crores for the first time in history, that's good enough!

For a pitiful performance, UPA government ordered 82 Su-30MKI, 40 Tejas, 45 Mig-29K, 120+ BAE Hawk, 75 PC-7 BTA, 151 Mi-17V5, 10 C-17, 12 C130, 100+ ALH Dhruv, 8 P-8A, 3 AWACS, 2 AEWC&S (only aviation platforms)

against 36 Rafale, 22 Apache, 15 Chinook, 15 LCH, 4 P8-A and 100+ Dhruv by NDA.

Similar comparisons about IA and IN platforms are equally disappointing, it is no hidden truth that capital allocation under the current government is much lower than the previous government while considering inflation and exchange rates, only the revenue allocation has increased significantly due to the commitments made by the same government. What makes it worse is the fact that any improvement in GDP over the 5 years was not utilised for increasing capital allocation to its deserved level. This is just a propaganda government which brings up misleading stats and figures to make us believe that they are serious about defence. Least they can show is the decency to stop harping about how much importance they give to the defence sector.

Good Day!

The UPA also received a very healthy economy with booming investment and growth for the duration of the past government and a very healthy fiscal situation and moderate inflation. When it left, we had (largely unaccounted) NPA's of 10 lac crore, stagnating growth, stuck projects, mass corruption, much higher government debt levels with rocketing inflation. Bank lending practically collapsed by 2016 and stuck projects destroyed the NBFC industry. Had we still been in the UPA era we would have had a major crisis which mind you was entirely of the *censored*wits creation.

It also seems to need reminding the dire state the military actually was in with just a few weeks of critical ammo left, a dying Air-Force with no progress on the terminally delayed MMRCA (started in 2001 ffs), fighter readiness rates in the 50's, little progress on the future of Tejas... and so on. Our neighbourhood (Nepal, BD, Sri Lanka, Myanmar, Maldives and even little Bhutan) had moved shockingly away from us and towards China.

The NDA has had to spend a major time repairing the rubble left behind and have done a fair job of it. They have kept the fiscal deficit in check while balancing the need to have massive infra expenditure because the private expenditure had died. They have eased up 'businessing', brought back FDI, cut down on the ridiculous number of laws, enacted some very good ones (IBC), reduced corruption and defeated black money.

I get criticizing the NDA for its missteps and stupidity (Rafale being one such) but at this point you'd have to mental to even think about supporting the cast of incompetent and treasonous dacoits over them.

 

[Bon Plan]

The UPA also received a very healthy economy with booming investment and growth for the duration of the past government and a very healthy fiscal situation and moderate inflation. When it left, we had (largely unaccounted) NPA's of 10 lac crore, stagnating growth, stuck projects, mass corruption, much higher government debt levels with rocketing inflation. Bank lending practically collapsed by 2016 and stuck projects destroyed the NBFC industry. Had we still been in the UPA era we would have had a major crisis which mind you was entirely of the *censored*wits creation.

It also seems to need reminding the dire state the military actually was in with just a few weeks of critical ammo left, a dying Air-Force with no progress on the terminally delayed MMRCA (started in 2001 ffs), fighter readiness rates in the 50's, little progress on the future of Tejas... and so on. Our neighbourhood (Nepal, BD, Sri Lanka, Myanmar, Maldives and even little Bhutan) had moved shockingly away from us and towards China.

The NDA has had to spend a major time repairing the rubble left behind and have done a fair job of it. They have kept the fiscal deficit in check while balancing the need to have massive infra expenditure because the private expenditure had died. They have eased up 'businessing', brought back FDI, cut down on the ridiculous number of laws, enacted some very good ones (IBC), reduced corruption and defeated black money.

I get criticizing the NDA for its missteps and stupidity (Rafale being one such) but at this point you'd have to mental to even think about supporting the cast of incompetent and treasonous dacoits over them.

You seem all but enlightened.

 

[Parthu]

I made a similar post back in the old forum many years ago, thought I'd refresh it considering its almost 2AM and I'm bored..

Dassault aircraft have a very long, distinguished service history in the Indian military...

Dassault Ouragan (Toofani) -- October 1953

Total 104 Toofanis served with IAF till 1967.

Dassault Mystere IV -- March 1957 (month unconfirmed)

Total 110 Mystere IVa served in IAF till 1973.



Breguet Br.1050 Alize -- January 1961 (Navy)

Total 12-17 Alize served with IN on carrier-based duties till 1987, and in shore-based duty till 1991 (exact number is disputed owing to acquisition of pre-production prototypes and possibly few ex-Aeronavale examples).



>> The SEPECAT Jaguar could also possibly be included as it was partly developed by Breguet, which is now merged into Dassault, but decided to leave it out considering it was a joint Franco-British project <<

Dassault Mirage 2000H -- June 1985

Total 49 Mirage 2000s served in IAF, about 40-odd remain in service, undergoing upgrade to Mirage 2000-5 Mk.2 standard.



Dassault Rafale -- September 2019

Total 36 ordered (so far, )



and hopefully...

Dassault Rafale M -- Who knows when (Navy)

MRCBF requires 57 aircraft.

 

[Picdelamirand-oil]

Pod, weapons for Indian Rafales still not finalised

The first Indian Rafales will be armed with MBDA missiles. But New Delhi has yet to finalise pod and bomb selections.

In 2019, India is expected to receive the first of its 36 Dassault Rafales.The contract with French industry also includes MBDA's Mica and Meteor air-to-air missiles and the Scalp/Storm Shadowcruise missile. However, India has not yet ordered a laser designation pod or bombs.

Thales is offering the Talios pod, which was qualified on the Rafale at the end of 2018 as part of the F3R standard. At the Aero India show, the French manufacturer is highlighting the functions and performance of the sensors currently available with the Talios. But Thales is also underlining future enhancements under the Rafale F4 standard, which is currently under development.

Talios can, for example, be coupled to the helmet-mounted sight, which is part of the F4 standard. Thales is also offering a "Vision Permanent" function, which will superimpose real-time imagery on a 3D map of the operational environment. Thales also wants to use artificial intelligence to allow the pod to automatically identify targets on the ground. Finally, functions developed for the Reco-NG pod will be integrated in order to allow the Talios to also carry out reconnaissance missions.

The Rafale has been sold to Egypt with a French system, but Qatar has chosen Lockheed Martin's Sniper pod.

Concerning the selection of air-to-ground weapons, India could choose Safran's A2SM modular weapon, but Israel has also offered weapons such as Rafael's Spice glide bomb. The Rafale can also carry American GBU guided bombs.

The Rafale is also on offer to the Indian Navy, which is seeking to acquire 57 carrier-borne fighters. In this case, the Rafale could be equipped with the AM39 Exocet missile.

Pod, weapons for Indian Rafales still not finalised - Air & Cosmos - International

 

[randomradio]

You seem all but enlightened.

His entire post is correct except for the Rafale part. But he is ignorant about the air force in general, so it should be forgiven.

 

[randomradio]

Dassault Mirage 2000H -- June 1985

Total 49 Mirage 2000s served in IAF, about 40-odd remain in service, undergoing upgrade to Mirage 2000-5 Mk.2 standard.

59 have served the IAF and as of today 48 are in service.

2 more M-2000s will be joining us soon from France. Hopefully the one we lost recently will also be replaced.

So we can push the total to 61 aircraft for now, perhaps 62 with the final replacement.