S-400 'Triumf' News & Discussion

randomradio said:
They are not planning to do anything to stuff we have already signed. All signed deals will continue as is. As of now, they are only threatening to stop supply of armed drones, but it's not going to amount to anything beyond a threat, just noise.

I don't see them doing anything to India in fact. I only see status quo for us.

But yeah, we should not buy critical and offensive weapons systems from them.
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I have my doubts. India will now firmly go into Russian hands. There will be no TOT or MII for any of the US products, be it F-18SH or EMALS for our next carrier nor will there be F414INS6 engine tech. LCA MK2 is still born already. We will be forced to buy more from Russia and now French have emerged as the main beneficiary of this monumental US stupidity. There will be more Rafale and more MIG-29Ks/35s for IN & IAF.
 
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vstol Jockey said:
I have my doubts. India will now firmly go into Russian hands. There will be no TOT or MII for any of the US products, be it F-18SH or EMALS for our next carrier nor will there be F414INS6 engine tech. LCA MK2 is still born already. We will be forced to buy more from Russia and now French have emerged as the main beneficiary of this monumental US stupidity. There will be more Rafale and more MIG-29Ks/35s for IN & IAF.
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Nothing of this sort will happen. The Americans have always known we will be going for FGFA, S-400 etc. All this CAATSA noise regarding India is just noise. Even if you read the actual quotes, it's obvious that they are not planning on sanctioning India.

Just look at the words used:

US May Block Sale Of Armed Drones As India Is Buying Arms From Russia
Last month, the Trump administration had cleared the export of armed, unmanned drones to close strategic partners such as India. According to Mr Thornberry, "This is one of the areas where the acquisition of the Russian anti-aircraft system will make the acquisition of that technology somewhat more difficult."

"Somewhat more difficult" is irrelevant. Delayed perhaps, but not cancelled.

And then--
However, Mr Thornberry has pointed out that while the US is disappointed with India's new military acquisition from Russia, sanctions against New Delhi were unlikely at the present stage.

So there are no plans to sanction us.

And then--
Neither will there be an India-specific exemption to CAATSA. "In the legislation that passed the house just last Thursday, there was additional flexibility in the law for nations that have historical ties and thus Russian equipment" said Mr Thornberry who added that "there will be some additional flexibility that will not just be limited to India but there are other countries that fall into that category".

It's not just India, but many countries will be exempted, like Indonesia, Vietnam etc.

CAATSA has been designed to stop the Middle East from buying Russian weapons. The S-400 for the Turks. The UAE plans to develop a light 5th gen aircraft with Russia. The Saudis are interested in the S-400 as well.

The US is also hoping to apply CAATSA sanctions on Iran when Iran decides to buy Flankers and the S-300/400 from Russia.

By mentioning India, they are hinting to other countries that they are serious about CAATSA. But India itself is safe from CAATSA. Even ACM Dhanoa pointed out that India will not be affected by CAATSA during the recent exercises.

So status quo for us. Anyway, we won't be buying stuff like the SH or F-16 from them.
 
Did you read the statement of Sushma swaraj today? Does it point to the much bigger problem with US and not just CAATSA? Even Iran is part of the problems between India and USA. We have decided not to follow the instructions of USA regarding Iran.
 
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I feels there will be no such action against India since India has a big budgets and plans to buy weapon system from USA,They can’t loose a big customer like India also there is less chances of copywrite violations as we respect international business Standards. India means business ...By seeing this deal USA will have more confidence in Indian arms deal .
 
TARGET said:
I feels there will be no such action against India since India has a big budgets and plans to buy weapon system from USA,They can’t loose a big customer like India also there is less chances of copywrite violations as we respect international business Standards. India means business ...By seeing this deal USA will have more confidence in Indian arms deal .
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Make no mistake, US will sanction India if it have enough hold over India. Right now, it don't have any significant hold over Indian defense sector and it is very important to keep it that way.American would be talking in a different tone, if we had any US origin front-line fighter jets. Even European Union and France having hard time dealing with the US sanctions becuase of their dependence on US financial and military sector. I hope that this will be a wake up call for Indian government and necessary actions will be taken to keep strategic dependence on US at minimum.
 
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Volcano said:
Make no mistake, US will sanction India if it have enough hold over India. Right now, it don't have any significant hold over Indian defense sector and it is very important to keep it that way.American would be talking in a different tone, if we had any US origin front-line fighter jets. Even European Union and France having hard time dealing with the US sanctions becuase of their dependence on US financial and military sector. I hope that this will be a wake up call for Indian government and necessary actions will be taken to keep strategic dependence on US at minimum.
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It’s about mutual trust... you love their dollar but you don’t trust them... what we export to Russia and how much $ Russia give it to us we should check ,Arms deals is a big area we may distribute the orders...but we can’t leave USA because they can change scenario subcontinent anytime...we can say whatever but we have to stay with USA to suffocate our neighbors,Few billions dollars aid and f16 these mosquitoes will fly again.Indian think tank understand these things very well.we will keep USA in our side and you are going to see more bear hug ;).
 
vstol Jockey said:
Did you read the statement of Sushma swaraj today? Does it point to the much bigger problem with US and not just CAATSA? Even Iran is part of the problems between India and USA. We have decided not to follow the instructions of USA regarding Iran.
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We are sending a message that we won't be bullied into doing things. Pretty normal for us. Our interests first.
 
US's urge to sell drones to India is more than India's urge to buy. It's upto US to make the concessions not the other way around. If US want's t use FG414's as carrot, it their loss as its will nothing but open the doors to other engine manufacturers and close the window on further sales.
 
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Volcano said:
Make no mistake, US will sanction India if it have enough hold over India. Right now, it don't have any significant hold over Indian defense sector and it is very important to keep it that way.American would be talking in a different tone, if we had any US origin front-line fighter jets. Even European Union and France having hard time dealing with the US sanctions becuase of their dependence on US financial and military sector. I hope that this will be a wake up call for Indian government and necessary actions will be taken to keep strategic dependence on US at minimum.
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well said. I agree. as on date we have very limited weaponry from US. once we acquire a large number of them and our defenses become dependent on those weapons, US will show its true colors. We are at the start point of transitioning from Russian origin equipment to US origin equipment, once we are half way down, US will show its true colors. We must not buy any critical weapon system like offensive weapons from US ever.
 
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TARGET said:
It’s about mutual trust... you love their dollar but you don’t trust them... what we export to Russia and how much $ Russia give it to us we should check ,Arms deals is a big area we may distribute the orders...but we can’t leave USA because they can change scenario subcontinent anytime...we can say whatever but we have to stay with USA to suffocate our neighbors,Few billions dollars aid and f16 these mosquitoes will fly again.Indian think tank understand these things very well.we will keep USA in our side and you are going to see more bear hug ;).
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vstol Jockey said:
well said. I agree. as on date we have very limited weaponry from US. once we acquire a large number of them and our defenses become dependent on those weapons, US will show its true colors. We are at the start point of transitioning from Russian origin equipment to US origin equipment, once we are half way down, US will show its true colors. We must not buy any critical weapon system like offensive weapons from US ever.
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Although I agree that we shouldn't buy offensive weapons from them, the Americans will never sanction India for any reason unless we test nukes. Nukes is their red line, nothing else.

And we are in the process of complete indigenization anyway. There is nothing they can offer us from the middle of next decade that we cannot make ourselves or buy from an alternate source. So their only window to sell us anything worth buying is the next 5-10 years. No point if they sanction us at this time.
 
randomradio said:
Although I agree that we shouldn't buy offensive weapons from them, the Americans will never sanction India for any reason unless we test nukes. Nukes is their red line, nothing else.

And we are in the process of complete indigenization anyway. There is nothing they can offer us from the middle of next decade that we cannot make ourselves or buy from an alternate source. So their only window to sell us anything worth buying is the next 5-10 years. No point if they sanction us at this time.
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What if we test a 13000+ km range nuclear-capable ballistic missile that put large parts of US under Indian range?
 
US hints at possible collab for development of S-400 like Air-Defence System with India

William Thornberry, the Chairman of the House Armed Services Committee clearly said in a recent interview that only exemption India can get from Countering America’s Adversaries Through Sanctions Act (CAATSA) federal law on the procurement of weapons from Russia will be for its existing weapons systems in the supply of spares and technical servicing and overhaul from Russia but procurement of S-400 system will lead to violation of the legislation, and will attract possible sanctions on India .

When asked how India’s requirement for Long Ranged Air Defence system will be satisfied to meet its security needs for that Thornberry said that United States Congress already has designated India has major Defence Partner which in that law clearly specifies that Missile Defence System is an area which US and India can work together.

Thornberry said a combination of Indian and US technologies can lead to the development of an Air Missile Defence System which can meet India’s security scenarios and US Government is also in talks with other countries who are interested in procurement of the same system from Russia so that same possible allies can come together for a Joint International Collaboration to meet their requirements .

Thornberry praised US-Israeli Joint development of Arrow missile defense which already has seen development and deployment of Arrow 1, Arrow 2 and Arrow 3 and have also started works on next-generation Arrow 4 and see this collab which can be replicated with India if India agrees to not purchase S-400 Air-Defence System from Russia.

In Past India was seen interested in the procurement of Arrow II theatre missile defence interceptor from Israel but was denied due to the MTCR sanctions. India has officially joined the Missile Technology Control Regime (MTCR) as a full member in 2016 but since then India has not shown any interest in the Israeli system again.

Thornberry while speaking to Indian officials might have agreed for the sale of Israeli Arrow theatre missile defense interceptor which has American components for India’s immediate needs and clearly by this statement has offered a Joint collaboration for design and development of a New Aerial Missile Defence System to meet its requirements and also of its allies.

India already has developed a independent Ballistic Missile Defence Programme and the first phase is likely to be deployed soon and work on Phase-II already has commenced. India reportedly is also working on the development of Two long Range Surface to Air Missile in class of 250 km along with a 120 km which will be part of its XR-SAM Aerial Missile Defence System which gradually will be upgraded to S-400 Class Aerial Missile Defence System.
 
Butter Chicken said:
US hints at possible collab for development of S-400 like Air-Defence System with India

William Thornberry, the Chairman of the House Armed Services Committee clearly said in a recent interview that only exemption India can get from Countering America’s Adversaries Through Sanctions Act (CAATSA) federal law on the procurement of weapons from Russia will be for its existing weapons systems in the supply of spares and technical servicing and overhaul from Russia but procurement of S-400 system will lead to violation of the legislation, and will attract possible sanctions on India .

When asked how India’s requirement for Long Ranged Air Defence system will be satisfied to meet its security needs for that Thornberry said that United States Congress already has designated India has major Defence Partner which in that law clearly specifies that Missile Defence System is an area which US and India can work together.

Thornberry said a combination of Indian and US technologies can lead to the development of an Air Missile Defence System which can meet India’s security scenarios and US Government is also in talks with other countries who are interested in procurement of the same system from Russia so that same possible allies can come together for a Joint International Collaboration to meet their requirements .

Thornberry praised US-Israeli Joint development of Arrow missile defense which already has seen development and deployment of Arrow 1, Arrow 2 and Arrow 3 and have also started works on next-generation Arrow 4 and see this collab which can be replicated with India if India agrees to not purchase S-400 Air-Defence System from Russia.

In Past India was seen interested in the procurement of Arrow II theatre missile defence interceptor from Israel but was denied due to the MTCR sanctions. India has officially joined the Missile Technology Control Regime (MTCR) as a full member in 2016 but since then India has not shown any interest in the Israeli system again.

Thornberry while speaking to Indian officials might have agreed for the sale of Israeli Arrow theatre missile defense interceptor which has American components for India’s immediate needs and clearly by this statement has offered a Joint collaboration for design and development of a New Aerial Missile Defence System to meet its requirements and also of its allies.

India already has developed a independent Ballistic Missile Defence Programme and the first phase is likely to be deployed soon and work on Phase-II already has commenced. India reportedly is also working on the development of Two long Range Surface to Air Missile in class of 250 km along with a 120 km which will be part of its XR-SAM Aerial Missile Defence System which gradually will be upgraded to S-400 Class Aerial Missile Defence System.
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If they are really giving us options then why not If they are ready to give us David sling like interceptor
 
STEPHEN COHEN said:
No such thing will happen

They will keep talking for years

We needed S 400 yesterday
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same was said during m777 and Apaches or P8 or predator but all were offered

Thought in my opinion
We don't need anything specially S-400 it has no Special capicity that we cannot develop by our own we already have projects Like SDFR ,Barak-8 /LR SAM ER and Akash NG ,AAD And PDV should be well funded and should be shared with private firms

6 billion $ are to much amount to be waste on foreign purchase Specially when we have our own R&D in Missiles defence

S-400 is just complimentary system its has no Special capabilities to add
 
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We can develop such SAMs on our own, we don't need the US or Russia for this. But the S-400 is ready for induction, you can't compare any new development, even if it's more advanced, to an already operational system.

The Americans are getting desperate to the point where it's laughable.
 
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India moves towards acquiring Russian S-400 missile systems despite US opposition

NEW DELHI: India is now swiftly moving towards acquiring five advanced S-400 Triumf air defence missile systems from Russia despite the looming threat of US sanctions, with the defence ministry clearing the decks for the proposed Rs 39,000 crore deal.

Top sources say the defence acquisitions council (DAC), chaired by minister Nirmala Sitharaman, on Thursday, approved the “minor deviations” in the mega S-400 deal that had emerged during the recently-concluded commercial negotiations with Russia.

The DAC was held just a day after the US on Wednesday night once again cancelled the inaugural “two-plus-two” dialogue between foreign minister Sushma Swaraj and defence minister Sitharaman with their American counterparts— Mike Pompeo and Jim Mattis— which was slated for July 6 in Washington.
 
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NKVD said:
same was said during m777 and Apaches or P8 or predator but all were offered

Thought in my opinion
We don't need anything specially S-400 it has no Special capicity that we cannot develop by our own we already have projects Like SDFR ,Barak-8 /LR SAM ER and Akash NG ,AAD And PDV should be well funded and should be shared with private firms

6 billion $ are to much amount to be waste on foreign purchase Specially when we have our own R&D in Missiles defence

S-400 is just complimentary system its has no Special capabilities to add
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6 billion dollars were not spent by India for S400s alone, keep that in mind. It was about -- which obviously can't be discussed here or anywhere else simply because it's way above many people's pay grade. And for those who ask again, we will repeat again, it's "classified". Thank you.
 
We don't know the actual scale of the purchase.

And we don't know if we are buying S-400s alone or other stuff too, which will most likely be the case.
 
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