Small Arms & Tactical Equipment

I'm not exactly an expert on the firearms,so if you guys @Parthu and @Maximus could explain in layman terms.My primary concern is regarding reducing our casualities in the COIN warfare we are now waging in kashmir.How can we do this best?

1.I believe Rashtriya rifles will get ak-203s?How much of an upgrade would it be over our current AKs,and what practical advantages would they have over militants weapons?

In terms of upgrade value or major advantage over enemy weapons, it will have to come from the accessories involved, rather than the weapon itself. The AK-203 has but minute differences to the older AKMs, Type-56s, and Eastern European AK clones which are widespread among militants in terms of raw ballistics. However, it will undoubtedly be superior to any AK currently in use in all of South Asia. It will be more reliable & more accurate out of the box.

2.The new bulletproof jackets coming this year.How much can they impact our casuality rates?Particularly against ak-47 bullets?

Point to note is that a lot of CI/CT operators in J&K today (including Army & CAPFs) already have bullet-proof plate inserts in their Fighting Load Carriers (FLCs). However, it is not known to me personally what is the armor level rating of those plates. So hard to say how much of an improvement the SMPP vests will provide with regard to the HAP (Hard Armour Panel) sections...however, the SMPP vest will also provide SAP (Soft Armour Panel) inserts for the neck, groin & sides - which we don't have at the moment. So IMO, the improvement in protection standards (whether from bullets or shrapnel) will be most noticeable in those sections of the body.

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CRPF:
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Still, there are examples where the FLCs can only accommodate a plate insert on the back and not in the front, plus, the bulk of the regular Army (whether frontline or not) still doesn't have BPJs. So the SMPP vest will show a marked improvement especially in those use-cases.

3.Para sf is the tip of the spear for COIN and also the surgical strike specialists.Its good to see them getting a deserved upgrade.How much is SCAR better than current M4A1.

In terms of reliability & accuracy, noticeable improvement. Other than that, it doesn't bring much to the table that we can say is a game-changer. The M4A1 isn't a bad rifle in terms of accuracy or reliability either, and in terms of peripheral functionality, the M4A1s already give us all-round Picatinny rails, adjustable stock etc. However, we can have much better offers on the market today.

Why do para prefer M4A1 over tavor-21/x-95?

I believe its more to do with regard to personal preference than anything else. There are a lot of people who just can't take to the Bullpup-layout of firearms all that well, they much prefer the traditional layout (magazine & bolt assembly placed in front of the trigger group). Bullpup-style guns like the Tavor are considerably different in terms of handling, weight-distribution and shooter comfort - some like it, some don't. And those that don't would rather go with the M4A1.

The Tavor and M4s both take the same STANAG magazines and same ammo so there isn't much of a logistical issue even if both types of firearms are operated together in the same squad.

4.What kind of weapons will the ghatak platoons likely use in army battalions?Sig sauer or ak-203?

I'd say both. A lot will depend I think, on which battalion the particular Ghatak unit is attached to - and what is the service-issue weapon of that regiment's troops.

5.I see lots of pics of ak-47s with FAB accessories in use,will an ak-203 be better ?

In terms of raw functionality, nope. There's nothing on the AK-203 that makes it more functional than a FAB-upgraded AK.

But, it will certainly be overall a better gun, thanks to new features like a hinged dust cover & new muzzle device (all contributing to better accuracy and more reliable shot-placement).

6.What kind LMGs do we use in COIN?INSAS LMG ,which probably sucks?Does the army not have a machine gun(even MMG) in COIN which can penetrate building walls?

RR uses both Bren and INSAS-LMGs. Para SFs use PK variants in their ops, while IAF's Garuds have the Negev 5.56 version. I believe I've seen some OFB-made MAG clones with stocks as well.

The Bren owing to its larger calibre is the most powerful cover-penetrating LMG commonly accessible to RR troops. Probably why it's still in service to this day. But then again, any AK is a devastating weapon when it comes to destroying cover or going through walls. So that's not what we need LMGs for. Their principle use is in suppressing/pinning down militants with sustained fire (at least as much as can be managed by the magazine-fed Brens and INSAS in the absence of a belt-fed gun) without having to worry much about barrel overheating & cook-offs.

7.What exactly is the role of the Caracal for COIN,we know its to be issued to tank crews and officers and rear echelon maybe.Other than that?

In my opinion, the CI/CT troops will end up using whatever they want. Nobody could force them to use INSAS, they ditched it and chose AKs instead. So far, the only 'carbine' in IA service was the 9mm Sterling produced by SAF Kanpur. In today's world, the Sterling is about as ancient and worthless as it can get, especially in counter-insurgency warfare. Not just because of its lack of functionality, but more importantly due to it's 9x19 round, who's stopping power will make the 5.56x45 seem like a mean critter. No wonder then that these SMG carbines are now very rarely seen in Army usage, with everyone preferring the much larger INSAS or AK instead.

But once (and if) the Caracal rifle carbine comes in, I believe all that will change. I believe we'll see a whole bunch of users will start preferring to carry the CAR816 instead of the larger SIG or AK rifles.

Finally ,if you could do a comparison between the sig sauer 716 and qbz-1 and g3upgraded for the mountain combat expected on the LAC and LOC?

There is no QBZ-1, I believe you meant the QBZ-95 (or the newer 95-1) which is the PLA service rifle. The SIG 716G2 is easily a much better rifle than either the Chinese QBZs or the pakistan-made G3s. Against the G3, the SIG is principally ahead in terms of functionality and aspects like accuracy, weight & reliability. But they both shoot the same round (7.62x51mm) so there's not that much difference in terms of raw ballistic performance.

The QBZ-95 on the other hand, shoots a much smaller round. In the kind of environments where a battle with the PLA can be expected (either in the mostly wooded regions of Arunachal Pradesh or in the mountainous terrains of Ladakh and nearby sectors, I believe the 7.62 Nato rounds of the SIG, especially if combined with a good optic, will easily out-shoot the Chinese infantry rifles.

Does small arms fire actually have any impact during cross firing at LOC due to fortified enemy,terrain and ranges involved?

Yes it does - and so far the pakistanis have enjoyed a marked advantage due to their employment of 7.62 Nato battle rifles and true bolt-action sniper weapons. A gap in capability the Indian side has only recently risen up to fill.
 
Few photos of KM-AK at service in Russia,they look similar to AK 203 with some minor differences .These photos will give you an idea how AK 203 will look on our soldiers :

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Cold weather testing of AK 203 at Kalashnikov -

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Excellent Write - Will need to sit down with hot coffee (no chilled beer cause of lent season) and re-read all this again to update my knowledge

I have a query .

We have seen post (pics) of Trials conducted at an OFB firing ranges for the MSMC with State Police testing them - the Step-up and facilities - from the pics are just sad and looks like someone's overgrown backyard garden

How are the testing and setup for the IA ?? and if you have any pics of the same - please do post
 
Credit : Unknowncommando
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Indian Navy MARCOS Marksman with a Galatz 7.62mm NATO Designated Marksman Rifle/Battle Rifle with a Nimrod 6x40 Scope and a fixed Bipod.
Curiously the stock does not seem to be the wooden stock that the Army uses. What is that stock @Parthu ?
Also, what is that oval thing behind him ? Some kind of radar ?
 
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Credit : Unknowncommando
View attachment 5544
Indian Navy MARCOS Marksman with a Galatz 7.62mm NATO Designated Marksman Rifle/Battle Rifle with a Nimrod 6x40 Scope and a fixed Bipod.
Curiously the stock does not seem to be the wooden stock that the Army uses. What is that stock @Parthu ?
Also, what is that oval thing behind him ? Some kind of radar ?

What he's holding there is the newer variant of Galatz/Galil Sniper, which has polymer furniture. The stock is the standard one that comes with this model.

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The one with wood isn't produced anymore. As far as I know, the polymer Galatz is standard for MARCOS, and only the Para (SFs) are still seen with the older wooden-furniture variant:

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I don't have the pictures to prove it but I remember that recently I seem to have registered in my mind that Paras also started getting the new polymer Galatz. The older, heavier wooden-furniture variant might already be on it's way out.

Yes, the dome appears to be a radar. Though I wonder what is that hose leading to it/from it. Perhaps its just a heavily insulated wire.
 
Credit on pic.
Rajasthan Police ERT Commando with an OFB 7.62×51 mm Sniper Rifle
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I don't know why but I am really starting to like this rifle.:love:
Woodwork seems surprisingly well done.
Optics looks like KHALES.
The bolt doesn't seem to have a large weight at the end.
Where is the mag release ? @Parthu
 
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Credit on pic.
Rajasthan Police ERT Commando with an OFB 7.62×51 mm Sniper Rifle
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I don't know why but I am really starting to like this rifle.:love:
Woodwork seems surprisingly well done.
Optics looks like KHALES.
The bolt doesn't seem to have a large weight at the end.

I personally would have preferred a polymer frame over a wooden one. As far as I know, this particular rifle was manufactured to a requirement which specifically wanted wood. Don't know why...I guess someone had bad experiences with polymer.

However, a good quality polymer frame is always better, especially when dealing with sharpshooting rifles (DMR/Sniper). Wood doesn't give you the kind of tight tolerances a machined polymer or metal can. Not to mention weight savings. It's not for no reason that pretty much all modern sniper rifles stopped using wood.

Where is the mag release ? @Parthu

For a frame like this, I would think the mag release is contained within the trigger guard. Not sure though...not that many pictures of this rifle lying around.

No takers in the military for this weapon so far.
 
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@Parthu @Milspec can rifle mounted thermal sights like the Tonbo Imaging Raptor(Raptor) be used as a daylight sight/image magnifier ? I mean they do say its "multi-purpose", I wonder what other purposes it can serve ?

Yes, TI sights can be used during the day - however their sensitivity will most probably reduce as the ambient temperatures in the day will generally be higher (especially in more arid/tropical regions).

In general use-cases, TI sights are reserved for night-time use only, as that is when the advantage granted by them is mostly useful.

I mean, why would you want to use a TI to see something in the day, when you can see the same thing more clearly with a regular magnified day optic? In special cases (such a hidden sniper or mortar crew or something), yes, units might decide to bring out the thermal sights from their packs. But 99% of the time, only day optics will be used in the day.

The ideal weapon optical complex for the IA in my opinion would be a 4x magnifier (like Trijicon ACOG, ELCAN Spectre etc.) for units with the SIG 716s, and at least a Holographic or Reflex sight (like EOTech XPS/552, Aimpoint Micro-T2, CompM4, Falke LE etc.) for the AK-203s. TI sights like Raptor can be common for all.

I would have preferred magnifiers available for the entire infantry, but those are expensive as hell.
 
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would have preferred magnifiers available for the entire infantry, but those are expensive as hell.
That's what I was asking. Can TI sights double up as magnifiers providing normal daylight magnified image not thermal image ? What are those 4 buttons on top of the sight for ? Mode selection ?
 
That's what I was asking. Can TI sights double up as magnifiers providing normal daylight magnified image not thermal image ?

Ah, I get what you're saying. To answer your question: no.

The 'thermal' mode is always on. As is 'Night Vison mode' on an NVG, it comes with the type of tube used in the optic. You can't just turn it off.

Besides, it's likely the 'magnification' on the Raptor is useful to get a closer look at objects. But I doubt its terribly useful for shooting. It's because its likely the Raptor has digital zoom features, rather than optical magnification. Typically, such sights are meant to be used in conjunction with a day-sight magnifier.

What are those 4 buttons on top of the sight for ? Mode selection ?

Yes. Typically you get a Power on/off button, a Menu button (and 4 directional arrows for highlighting options) and a Selection button. The various options allow selection of the different thermal intensity variations you want to set your sight to, changing the type of reticles shown, the digital zoom features etc.
 
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This is an incomplete post,I had much more to add,unfortunately I will not be able to complete this.As a mark of respect towards the fellow members ,I am posting this .However my emotions does not allow me to add more to this.There has been a sudden untimely demise of my father.In memory of my father ,I am leaving this post incomplete,as my life will be now.

I will bid adieu for now ,hope to be back someday.Don't want to sound preachy ,but don't wait for a special occasion,or another day to hug your parents and tell them how much your love them,life is fragile and unpredictable.

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-Yes ,you are correct .If we go into technicality ,an AK with piston and gas block cannot have free floated barrel in its true sense,same goes with the AR platform or any other rifle with gas block or piston.


When we talk about free floated barrel /hand guard on ak ,it basically means that the hand guard will be devoid of any contact with the barrel.I had used the word "harmonics" in general way not in its technical term,by that I meant that any outside pressure on the hand guard like bi pod,sling,resting the hand guard on a support will not affect the barrel.

"Free floating " be it on ar or ak does not aim to arrest or reduce the vibrations on the barrel ,but to let the barrel vibrate freely in harmony,without any outside pressure point through the hand guard acting on it.Yes,free floating is more effective on heavier barrel but that does not mean it has no effect on thinner barrels.The main purpose is to avoid any outside pressure points working on the barrel..

So when we talk about free floating on AK ,it is basically to avoid any outside pressure on the hand guard acting on the barrel,which could lead to change in point of impact.As far as AK 15 is concerned ,the person who is involved in testing has reported improvement in accuracy due to free floating barrel/hand guard on it.

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The small orders make sense in a way that ,if the weapons work as intended ,then they can place a repeat order and if they fail to impress,then they are not left with duds in large numbers.However large orders have its own merit in standardization,economy of scale and training.I believe its time that our special forces move away from tavor tar 21,as standard issue.Being special forces it make sense that they maintain an assortment of weapons,to be used as and when required ,however a certain kind of standardization in rifles and calibers is required.A unified special forces command could ensure this.


Coming to Rifles ,these are my choice :

7.62x51m = Scar-H is a very good rifle in this caliber.


5.56X45mm = Scar -L is a very good rifle,it was extensively tested by SOCOM against all the renowned rifles,where it came out on the top.However ,they concluded that despite the SCAR being relatively superior,the cost over benefits does not make sense to replace the existing inventory of m4.Hk 416 is also a good rifle,however it has its own set of issues,as reported by Norwegian military and US marines ,who have fielded HK416 in large numbers.


Nonetheless both these rifles are good but I don't agree with the exorbitant price tag they come with.The SIG 516gen 2 and CARACAL 816 are equally good platforms minus the hype .The SIG 516 is already in service in various special forces around the world Egyptian and Turkish for example,and have developed a good reputation among the user of this platform.With SIG 716 order already in its kitty,SIG would love to strengthen their bond with Indian military and could easily offer an attractive price for the 516.Regarding Caracal 816,I have heard nothing but praise about this rifle ,be it reviewers or civilian owners.What I like about this rifle is that being primarily developed for UAE ,it has been developed to work under dust and hot environment. Instead of being swayed by the SOCOM choice of weapons,it is imperative that our forces carry out their own trials before making any final decision.



7.62x39mm = My choice for this caliber would be AK 15 over AK 203 ,mainly because of its lower weight.



Machine guns :

Light Machine gune

MK 48 LMG is an excellent choice.



GPMG :

PKP pechneg chambered in 7.62x51mm -regular or either the bull pup variant.


SIG Sauer new LMG also looks interesting with capability to switch from .338 nm to 7.62x51mm in 5 minute,weight less than 10kg,effective range of 2000m.


Denel DMG -5 also look interesting with weight less than 9kg and effective range upto 1500m.



Heavy Machine gun

.50 browning machine gun :

Excellent choice,however with shift to .50 caliber machine gun and sniper rifles both in army and special forces it will make sense to have license production of both the .50 caliber ammunition and Browning machine gun within the country .


HMGs are meant to be fitted on the Light Strike Vehicle (LSVs) being procured from Pune-based Force Motors over the next three months.

Talking about Force motors LSV ,it is most probably this :

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Sniper rifle :

Barrett M107 A1 :

Again an excellent choice,however I found it amusing that Army went in for bullpup M95 while Special forces chose traditional layout.


Beside these they should also buy a light weight 7.62x51mm bolt action sniper rifle, a semi automatic sniper rifle/DMR(I know we already have galatz,but I believe we can do better),.338 lapua magnum bolt action sniper rifle.

Regarding SAKO sniper rifles,I believe it will be SAKO trg M10 in .338 lapua magnum.
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Helmet mounted night vision googles :

I have no idea what type of nvd they are purchasing ,however tonbo imaging has a nice lineup of products,I am disappointed on special forces giving them a miss on this.Hope whatever they import is better than anything Tonbo has to offer.


Carl-Gustaf M4 :

Again an excellent choice and something which will make sense in large numbers,across all the forces ,so TOT and license manufacturing is required.


Beside these they also need advance communication devices including headsets,advance IFAK kit,new standard modular plate carrier along with the SMPP bullet proof vest,New combat uniform with embedded elbow and knee pad,a standard set of new camo pattern,new combat boots etc


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1.Well AK 203 in my opinion is among the best 7.62x39mm platform available right now,even though I would have preferred AK 15 over it due to its light weight and free float hand guard, but still AK 203 has strong merits of its own.Even though some issue might crop up with induction and use of AK 203,which is common with every weapon platform,I don't think there will be any major issues ,which can't be revised.Despite the absence of prolonged trials by our army,the performance of AK 103 (which is essentially the same rifle) in Pakistani trials and reputation of Kalashnikov induce confidence that this will turn out to be a good rifle.

Mud Immersion Test. Condition of the rifles; bolt closed on an empty chamber with a loaded magazine inserted and the muzzle capped. The SSG took the rifles into the tidal pluff mud and rolled them in the mud until they were completely covered.

MKE and CZ rifles along with Serbian and Chinese AK’s were able to get one or two rounds fired before jamming. The US weapon wouldn’t even chamber a round. The Russian Kalashnikov AK ran without issue.

Sand Test. Condition of the weapons, the muzzles were capped, and a round chambered. The weapons were buried under two feet of sand and left to bake for one hour. The temperature was 56°C (133°F) in the shade. After the requisite bake, the weapons were dug up and test fired. The US weapon wouldn’t fire. The CZ and MKE rifle along with the Serbian and Chinese AKs were able to get one or two round fired before jamming. The Russian Kalashnikov AK ran without issue.
General Staff Requirement (GSR) New Assault Rifle - Soldier Systems Daily




Regarding how much of an upgrade these will be over the AK being used by our army and terrorists :

1 These will be better rifles based on metallurgy and manufacturing process.Russian metallurgy is among the best when it comes to AK,a good metallurgy will result in better reliability in extreme heat or cold,better service life of rifle due to less wear and tear,ability to sustain heavy volume of fire.After years of production of AK platform ,they have mastered the production of AK pattern rifles,which will result in more accurate and reliable rifle.

2 Just like you cannot club all AR platforms into one,similarly all AK rifles are not equal.AK 203 represent the top tier of AK rifles based on its metallurgy,manufacturing process and design ,just like HK 416 is among the top tier of AR platform.

3. With a barrel length of around 16.33 inches it gets muzzle velocity of 715 m/s,which is greater than most of the 7.62x39mm rifles out there.More muzzle velocity will result in faster bullet,better trajectory and penetrating power.

4.AK 103 has a strong breech block ,which means that it can withstand higher pressure ,so a bullet with higher performance propellant can be used .

5. AK 203 comes with multiple rails,these will help in attachment of various accessories like bipod,IR laser ,flash lights,UGBL and optics.

6.The dust cover is redesigned and reinforced with heavier metal,this will ensure its stability while firing.It is hinged at the front and locked through a lever at the back,this will ensure repeat ability of zero,every time the cover is open for cleaning.

7. The new improved Flash hider will reduce the muzzle flash,thereby reducing the rifle signature ,as well as making the rifle more comfortable to shoot at night or while using nvd.It is a hybrid design so it also act as an compensator,thereby will reduce muzzle flip(jump of the rifle after firing).This will help in more stable shooting and quicker follow on shot.

8. It has a four position adjustable stock (length),this means that a shooter can adjust the rifle stock as per his comfort,different physical build and body armor are some factor which leads to different comfort level,at different length of the stock for the shooter.The stock is also side folding ,will result in ease of carrying in vehicles.You can attach a adjustable cheek riser on this stock,which will help you in comfortable cheek weld and easier eye and sight alignment.The stock also feature a rubber butt pad ,which will reduce the felt recoil.Despite being lightweight,adjustable polymer stock the stock is strong enough for firing UGBL and mele attack.

9.AK 203 at 4.1 kg is not only heavier than the regular AKM but also from most of the 7.62x39mm rifles.Assuming all the factors remain same in the rifle,the weight is inversely proportional to the felt recoil.In simple terms with increase in weight there will be a decrease in felt recoil.Therefore with an increased weight ,AK 203 will be more comfortable and stable to shoot.

10.It looks goods,which is a positive point in my eyes.

11.
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This is an incomplete post,I had much more to add,unfortunately I will not be able to complete this.As a mark of respect towards the fellow members ,I am posting this .However my emotions does not allow me to add more to this.There has been a sudden untimely demise of my father.In memory of my father ,I am leaving this post incomplete,as my life will be now.

I will bid adieu for now ,hope to be back someday.Don't want to sound preachy ,but don't wait for a special occasion,or another day to hug your parents and tell them how much your love them,life is fragile and unpredictable.
I am sorry to hear that. Take care, man.
 
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This is an incomplete post,I had much more to add,unfortunately I will not be able to complete this.As a mark of respect towards the fellow members ,I am posting this .However my emotions does not allow me to add more to this.There has been a sudden untimely demise of my father.In memory of my father ,I am leaving this post incomplete,as my life will be now.

I will bid adieu for now ,hope to be back someday.Don't want to sound preachy ,but don't wait for a special occasion,or another day to hug your parents and tell them how much your love them,life is fragile and unpredictable.

My condolences brother. May the man Rest in Peace.

Hoping to see you back to a 100% in all aspects of your personal & professional life as soon as possible - I'm sure it's what he would have wanted.
 
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“We want to try out the AK-203 in the carbine role. We can remove the rifle’s butt completely to reduce its size and then it can be hidden easily under clothes to be used in close quarter combat operations against terrorists,” top Army sources told ANI. “If needed, more modifications can be done in the AK-203 to suit the carbine role requirement,” they said. “The carbines are also useful in close quarter combat and can be highly effective during operations like room interventions.” “Efforts are under process to acquire 93,000 carbines and the Defence Ministry has formed an oversight committee to look into the case.” A senior Lieutenant General-rank officer has been appointed as the member of the committee including other members from the Defence Ministry and the DRDO. The Defence Ministry is expected to take a call once the oversight committee submits its report.

Indian Army to test AK-203 in carbine role also against terrorists
 
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