Its being smart , they are trying to gain knowledge & experience from all over the world. Its a sign of matureness , they seem to acknowledge the fact that there are gaps in their skillset and they can learn & gain from others rather than being bombastic & arrogant.
Sukhoi Su-30MKI
- Thread starter Ashwin
- Start date
Of everything that the Chinese lack, the last thing would be smartness. They are bunch of very smart and pragmatic people. Perhaps they need to have some B...S for their own good.
My point still stands though. What Chinese are trying to figure out today, not ONLY our AF has perfected but also evolved based upon NATO tactics merged with our own. The reason why IAF was rated ahead of PLAAF is this exactly since they own lot more heavy weight fighters that too AESA equipped than us.
PS: The B...S in the first paragraph stands for "braveness"
Doing my usual net search, came across this official article from Malaysian gov. regarding structural integrity of their SU30MKM fleet.
Breaking news is that SU30MKM(literally our MKI with some other mods) pulls maneuvers upto 13G regularly.
So someone like @Picard harps about Rafale pulling 11G and here we have Malaysian Flankers regulary pulling 13G. And yet structural integrity of their airframe remains airworthy despite such harsh use. Incredible.
Here is the screenshot:
Link: https://www.researchgate.net/public...oyal_Malaysian_Air_Force_RMAF_Sukhoi_Su-30MKM
Breaking news is that SU30MKM(literally our MKI with some other mods) pulls maneuvers upto 13G regularly.
So someone like @Picard harps about Rafale pulling 11G and here we have Malaysian Flankers regulary pulling 13G. And yet structural integrity of their airframe remains airworthy despite such harsh use. Incredible.
Here is the screenshot:
Link: https://www.researchgate.net/public...oyal_Malaysian_Air_Force_RMAF_Sukhoi_Su-30MKM
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Over the years different numbers have been speculated regarding the weight of Su-30MKI. But according to Official RMAF assessment the number quoted by Sukhoi/Irkut was 18.4 tons.
After they dismantled and weighed SU30MKM, its empty weight came at 17.88 tons, i.e., 97.2% of the quoted weight by Sukhoi.
It explains why IAF doesn't want to re-engine its Flanker. The thrust to weight ratio at sub 18 tons empty weight would be more than enough.
Screenshot:
Link: https://www.researchgate.net/public...oyal_Malaysian_Air_Force_RMAF_Sukhoi_Su-30MKM
@randomradio
Do you still think that we need new engines for MKI MLU?
After they dismantled and weighed SU30MKM, its empty weight came at 17.88 tons, i.e., 97.2% of the quoted weight by Sukhoi.
It explains why IAF doesn't want to re-engine its Flanker. The thrust to weight ratio at sub 18 tons empty weight would be more than enough.
Screenshot:
Link: https://www.researchgate.net/public...oyal_Malaysian_Air_Force_RMAF_Sukhoi_Su-30MKM
@randomradio
Do you still think that we need new engines for MKI MLU?
It doesn't include the weight of the pilot, engine oil and other fluids, even cannon ammo. It doesn't cover the weight of new electronics added since then either. Anyway, the engine is required for more electrical power. And of course, better maintenance and availability, better life, better tech, better equipped to deal with bird hits etc.
In the RMAF official screenshot which I've posted, they are specifically talking about "high speed maneuvers reaching almost 13G"; that's operational max G which they do.
Su-30MKI structural max G-limit is around 17G, IIRC.
But still at sub-18 tons empty weight, the thrust to weight of our Flanker is really impressive
.And your other points, yes I concur
It's obviously a mistake. Even pilots can't handle that, never mind "regularly".
But still at sub-18 tons empty weight, the thrust to weight of our Flanker is really impressive
And your other points, yes I concur
The MKI's thrust is adequate, but there's no such thing as adequate thrust to a pilot. Especially if the engine is all-round better with the increased thrust.
It's unclear if the MLU comes with the 117S though. Although cost plays a part, I don't think the IAF will go cheap on upgrading what's still our primary ASF. Although HVT's claimed there's no engine upgrade, I don't think he's correct.
There are many reports from operational pilots who have survived 12+G force and returned home safely. That is an official RMAF documemt, chances of error are miniscule.
Anyways, I've read reports that old SU-27M with addition of canards and bigger lerx was regularly pulling 10+G at the same speed where Su-27 could barely pull 9G. Our MKI's aerodynamics are inspired from that model. So
Man, 117S would turn MKI into a beast. And if IAF decide to upgrade to Type-30, then....
We aren't getting the item-30 at all. That's equal to the Russians leasing us the Yasen class.There are many reports from operational pilots who have survived 12+G force and returned home safely. That is an official RMAF documemt, chances of error are miniscule.
Anyways, I've read reports that old SU-27M with addition of canards and bigger lerx was regularly pulling 10+G at the same speed where Su-27 could barely pull 9G. Our MKI's aerodynamics are inspired from that model. So
Man, 117S would turn MKI into a beast. And if IAF decide to upgrade to Type-30, then....
You can argue that. But regularly is not humanly possible.
Anyways, I've read reports that old SU-27M with addition of canards and bigger lerx was regularly pulling 10+G at the same speed where Su-27 could barely pull 9G. Our MKI's aerodynamics are inspired from that model. So
10G is fine. But that's only if you turn off the FCS. And the IAF at least has decided to physically block that off after they crashed one, 'cause an experienced pilot but still training on the MKI accidentally turned it off.
Man, 117S would turn MKI into a beast. And if IAF decide to upgrade to Type-30, then....
I doubt the MKI can use the full capabilities of the new engine, it will be a waste of money. The IAF is also not interested in drilling holes in the jet and making other modifications for new avionics. Since extra stuff will be carried on pods, like jamming and MAWS, the pods will generate their own power.
In this official RMAF document (about structural fatigue/life-span of Su-30 MKM) which was very recently de-classified, they talk about:
"Just imagine number of high-speed maneuvers almost reaching 13G."
So, they are clearly stating to imagine 'number of high-speed maneuvers', which simply means that throughout its life-span Su-30MKM has pulled it numerous times even if not "regularly".
There is nothing to doubt here.
10+G was allowed by normal FCS. Anyways, once MKI enters a real dogfight with J-20/Su-35/J16/J11/J15/J10/F16 all FCS limits is going to be over-ridden. And it's nice to know how much it can be pushed.
IAF is satisfied with even current engines. But with Type-30, MKI shall be able to supercruise at 1.5 Mach with 6 air to air missiles. Say with mild afterburner with this much load it can stay for an-hour at 45-50k feet with current AL-31FP.
With new supercurising engines, it will be able to stay at that speed/altitude for 1.5 hours. So new engines would enhance MKI's supersonic persistence(which even now is very good), IMO.
@randomradio
Here is the chart of AL-31FP engine. Very interesting to see that it can engage TVC upto around Mach 0.8/9 and can reach top speed of around 2.1 Mach.
Max speed our MKI can reach at 18km altitude with current engine is ONLY 1.5 Mach. Both 117S and Type-30 would definitely improve the kinematics/cruise speed/top speed of our MKI over this current engine.
Source of image: Su-27 vs F-15
It's not done regularly, but the 11g is clean airshow.
It's 9g with missiles and about 5g with heavier stuff.
IAF boosts Su-30 aircrafts' capabilities with new over 250km strike range missile
Read more At:
www.aninews.in
www.businessinsider.in
Read more At:
IAF boosts Su-30 aircrafts' capabilities with new over 250km strike range missile
The new missile has been acquired by the Indian Air Force under emergency provisions and will further enhance the capabilities of the Su-30 fighter jets which are now the mainstay of the force for at least the next 20 years.
www.aninews.in
IAF boosts Su-30 aircrafts' capabilities with new over 250km strike range missile | Business Insider India
The new missile has been acquired by the Indian Air Force under emergency provisions and will further enhance the capabilities of the Su-30 fighter jets which are now the mainstay of the force for at least the next 20 years.
Rampage Air 2 Surface Missile.IAF boosts Su-30 aircrafts' capabilities with new over 250km strike range missile
Read more At:
IAF boosts Su-30 aircrafts' capabilities with new over 250km strike range missile
The new missile has been acquired by the Indian Air Force under emergency provisions and will further enhance the capabilities of the Su-30 fighter jets which are now the mainstay of the force for at least the next 20 years.
IAF boosts Su-30 aircrafts' capabilities with new over 250km strike range missile | Business Insider India
The new missile has been acquired by the Indian Air Force under emergency provisions and will further enhance the capabilities of the Su-30 fighter jets which are now the mainstay of the force for at least the next 20 years.
Any idea about the recent reports of Russia pushing for AL-41 engines for Su-30 upgrades? We know they did offer su35 class upgrade before too but that was rejected. Recent HAL report suggest they are proceeding with 240 AL-31FP engines & 80 RD-33 engines as per RFP received. Currently HAL got only 6 engines left to realise in this years revenue so these are likely in production soon/already started. So the talk of Al-41 engines does not stand. I do wonder if HAL will consider it later for AMCA though, we still hear nothing on the 110kn engine development part.
Those 240 nos are roughly half the total requirements. What about the other half ? Have they already been fitted in with new AL-31 FP or are they due for it later in this decade ?
Present rfp seems to be of those numbers. I am not sure on the rest of it but engine refit has been going on for some time.
If this can get some color for you, the status of 12 additional su-30 still not clear for me, HAL might be intent on going for those but sourcing could be done locally, MoD made it clear to try & source as much possible here. IC percentage will gradually move up.