I will only tell you a number that is accepted by most people, whether it is Chinese, American, Japanese, all believe, if you do not believe, I'm not in the mood to convince you
Sukhoi Su-30MKI
- Thread starter Ashwin
- Start date
So all you have numbers by your foe? They have incentive to exaggerate as they will get more funding.
People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. Just saying.
HAL shares jump 2% as Defence Ministry signs Rs 13,500-crore deal for 12 Su-30MKI aircraft
Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL) secured a ₹13,500 crore contract from the Ministry of Defence to supply 12 Su-30MKI fighter aircraft. This deal boosts India's defense capabilities and supports the 'Aatmanirbhar Bharat' initiative with 62.6% homegrown content. HAL's stock surged following the...www.google.com
The aircraft will feature a homegrown content of 62.6%, achieved through the indigenisation of numerous components manufactured by the Indian defence industry.
India Orders 12 Locally-Built Su-30MKI Jets for $1.5 Billion
The Indian government has contracted state-owned Hindustan Aeronautics Limited to produce 12 Su-30MKI fighter jets for the Indian Air Force.www.google.com
62.6% This is public information. Don't fantasize
Even the last 60 were built from raw materials stage.
The thing is, even if you sort of indigenise something, or provide a local alternative, the user got history of rejecting that alternative and direct to revert back to something that was coming from foreign source. This power is not in the hand of PM or MoD or anyone, rather in the hands of officer in charge of the affair. each file go through 6-7 high rank signatures within the establishment and you won't know exactly where from this is originating.This is golden opportunity for us to replace TI/AI parts/panels with CFC. Having manufacturing rights from the raw-material stage is a big thumbs up from me as it allows us to modify the jet in a way that IAF deems perfect
Would there be any need to publish list after list of items that need to be indigenised by a certain timeframe had the forces been serious about it? The culture is one side would tender out, other side ie industry would meet it. There was no question of whether import or local license mfg or local industry made. Once the strings got started being implemented by the Govt the challenges also started to mount. It takes good 40-50 years effort to come to a proven mil grade standard, and today we have new tech developed almost every day. So opportunities are there but very few takers due to longstanding skepticism about general nature of defence industry. This was highlighted by Solar groups Nuwal sir also I think.
Not true. Indigenization of core technologies and spares is a very high priority for the IAF. They are on mission mode here.
But for things to go through, it needs to be good across the board, including in areas where the industry may not necessarily understand. Case in point, ATAGS being too heavy for mountain bridges hence being forced on the plains and deserts or Arjun needing new tank transports and bridge layers forcing deployment in deserts.
If it's junk, they are not interested.
The negative import list is largely a pointless circus. Industry has to make and compete with others the best they can. The ones who lose will always complain.
This is because the sitting Govt has pushed a very hasty timeline down their throat , had that timeline been at par with industry maturity like how you would want your industry to develop, IAF would have been less mission mode level urgency.
This is one part. The other is shortage of spares etc because many of the mirage lines , mig line items which were imported from outside vendors have ceased to produce the same. Downside of choosing very mature supply line product is that at one point those product items become unsustainable because many single vendors stop producing the same. Given how many shutdowns happened in aero sector since covid, plenty of those single vendors shut shop, they do not produce anymore. So your alternative is either cheap chinese copy of the same or look for local alternative. Lot of these indi items, IAF is passing on the engg drawings they got from oems to local firms & asking them to make same grade lru, qualify via tests and they will buy from them till the end. This is what actual indigenisation that is ongoing currently.
Not at all. This began during Parrikar's time.
Any issues with spares were resolved a long time ago too. Our goal is not imports, but indigenization.
The industry still has to meet requirements before imports close. So this is not a quick fix.
The rules are simple, if the industry meets expectations, the forces are jumping at it. if it does not, they are junking it. Only the losers are complaining, and this is common with both Indian industry and foreign. Meeting IN's requirements are relatively easy, but due to mountain terrain, IA and IAF requirements are rarely met.
Can someone tell me what exactly are those spares are? Because except for say Engines which actually are the most moved part of a aircraft, i can't associate any other part to be replaced frequently and engines are the part that is least likely accessed and given permission to produce spare parts. Looks like a contradiction. Feel free to refute.
I think MKI program has been one program where IAF has always supported indigenous alternatives. We could have simply put ELL-8222SB directly onto MKI yet we are going for our indigenous pods. In the MLU, except upgraded FBW and base-engine most of the jet would constitute of Indian parts/components. MKI program gives us the freedom to do so. Even if we use AL-31FP in UPG. first batch, it'll be an upgraded/uprated version of base Russian design with plenty of Indian components in it
Hence why I think replacing Al/Ti parts with CFC could be done as we're going to upgrade the FBW in UPG. with OEM support. These 12 need to be as close to UPG. configuration as possible.
It also helps that MKI was among the first IAF aircraft to come with onboard Health and Usage Monitoring System (HUMS) which allows predictive maintenance. Whether that includes structural/airframe wear and tear, I'm not entirely sure.
Since the last decade pvt Indian companies like Krasny Marine Services have been tying up Russian OEMs to source and stock spares outside of HAL's ecosystem. This has helped cut down turnaround time significantly.
Since the last decade pvt Indian companies like Krasny Marine Services have been tying up Russian OEMs to source and stock spares outside of HAL's ecosystem. This has helped cut down turnaround time significantly.
MISSILE TRUCK concept is being talked about globally, which can fire AAMs in passive mode getting target coordinates via data-link.
We are already outnumbered by China. I hope we won't face saturation attack.
Su-30MKI & many other Su-3X around world have been seen with full load of 12 AAMs but single pylon rack.
We are deveoping dual rack launcher for AAMs for Tejas M1A & Mk2 MWF, we seem to be developing dual rack launcher for SAAW bombs on MKI too.
So i was wondering if Super Sukhoi upgrade can include dual rack launcher for AAMs also.
NOTE: Just for notional representation i'm using below pic showing 22 AAMs
I can't make a static model
Analysing this config, the MTOW of Su-30MKI is 38.8 tons, empty weight is 18.4 tons, max fuel is 9.64 tons,
so total external load is 38.8-(18.4+9.64) = 10.76 tons.
Astr-1,2 AAMs weigh 154 Kg, so 16 BVR-AAMs = 2,464 Kg
R-73 IR-CCM weighs 105 Kg, so 6 CCMs = 630 Kg
So 22 total AAMs weigh 3.1 tons, 7.6 tons still below MTOW.
But such a jet will always have to operate outside the NEZ (No Escape Zone) of enemy missile. The enemy jet also have to be kept far. Loss of a jet in this config means many AAMs also lost w/o firing.
The military have their own version of videogame like simulations, similar to what we see on DCS for example. Many times by use of good tactics BVR-AAMs miss their targets. So just to kill 1 tactical intelligent target many repeated attempts/AAMs could be required. This creates the debate of how many AAMs could be carried on a jet of any class.
NOTE: I request members not to mention what IAF thinks, this is not IAF/DoD site
So don't worry even if you differ with them. This is just time pass. Relax & chill. 
We are already outnumbered by China. I hope we won't face saturation attack.
Su-30MKI & many other Su-3X around world have been seen with full load of 12 AAMs but single pylon rack.
We are deveoping dual rack launcher for AAMs for Tejas M1A & Mk2 MWF, we seem to be developing dual rack launcher for SAAW bombs on MKI too.
So i was wondering if Super Sukhoi upgrade can include dual rack launcher for AAMs also.
NOTE: Just for notional representation i'm using below pic showing 22 AAMs
I can't make a static model
Analysing this config, the MTOW of Su-30MKI is 38.8 tons, empty weight is 18.4 tons, max fuel is 9.64 tons,
so total external load is 38.8-(18.4+9.64) = 10.76 tons.
Astr-1,2 AAMs weigh 154 Kg, so 16 BVR-AAMs = 2,464 Kg
R-73 IR-CCM weighs 105 Kg, so 6 CCMs = 630 Kg
So 22 total AAMs weigh 3.1 tons, 7.6 tons still below MTOW.
But such a jet will always have to operate outside the NEZ (No Escape Zone) of enemy missile. The enemy jet also have to be kept far. Loss of a jet in this config means many AAMs also lost w/o firing.
The military have their own version of videogame like simulations, similar to what we see on DCS for example. Many times by use of good tactics BVR-AAMs miss their targets. So just to kill 1 tactical intelligent target many repeated attempts/AAMs could be required. This creates the debate of how many AAMs could be carried on a jet of any class.
NOTE: I request members not to mention what IAF thinks, this is not IAF/DoD site
So don't worry even if you differ with them. This is just time pass. Relax & chill.