Sukhoi Su-30MKI
- Thread starter Ashwin
- Start date
MBDA refusal to integrate Meteor on LCA and SU-30MKI is a blessing in disguise. We will now go full steam ahead to make a ramjet powered version of ASTRA and create a counter to meteor in international market.
India is making Astra MK2 with dual pulsed motor. Meteor style SFDR is developed with Russia as joint development.
Tejas MK1A is getting delayed.
Will to wait to know whether Uttam & Kaveri ready by then.
That another 5 years from now.
Before that new missiles would have come up..
I think you do joke when you say that MiG-21 was better than Marut.
MiG-21 was more or less like a pilot on a rocket engine, It was a good plane, But Marut was also limited by the Vision of HAL and IAF and short sightedness of our then govt. Marut that time was supposed to be our MRCA. but then we opted for MiG-21 version which could also do some strike operations. Marut would have been expensive, but it would have given us knowledge and experience. It would have made our Aerospace industry much more developed then it is now. Look where the purchase of MiG-21 then put us, Almost 3 decade later we are not able to get our LCA as operational. So we saved some money, but it ensured that we remain one of the big importer of planes.
Even now when LCA is almost operational, you can see the various countries offering us their new planes, France, Russia, Americans, Swedes. They say they are friends, France is not offering us the jet tech, Of course they learnt it the hard way and they wont give it in easy way. If we had gone for Marut, it would have been difficult, and expensive a bit, but we would have developed our own planes and perhaps we would have been truly a super power in next decade.
MiG-21 was more or less like a pilot on a rocket engine, It was a good plane, But Marut was also limited by the Vision of HAL and IAF and short sightedness of our then govt. Marut that time was supposed to be our MRCA. but then we opted for MiG-21 version which could also do some strike operations. Marut would have been expensive, but it would have given us knowledge and experience. It would have made our Aerospace industry much more developed then it is now. Look where the purchase of MiG-21 then put us, Almost 3 decade later we are not able to get our LCA as operational. So we saved some money, but it ensured that we remain one of the big importer of planes.
Even now when LCA is almost operational, you can see the various countries offering us their new planes, France, Russia, Americans, Swedes. They say they are friends, France is not offering us the jet tech, Of course they learnt it the hard way and they wont give it in easy way. If we had gone for Marut, it would have been difficult, and expensive a bit, but we would have developed our own planes and perhaps we would have been truly a super power in next decade.
UTTAM radar is already under flight testing. Why would it take 5 years? Don't you remember submarine AIP was developed quickly?
Let me put this bluntly to you - MiG21 was better than Marut in all manners of operation.
MiG21 also gave technology to make engines to India. Indian politics came in the way of further development of engines, not lack of scientific skill or infrastructure. If you can't elext right people and elect people for.price rise, this is what you get.
Why would they hold tender for Mk1A if Uttam is ready ?
And Mk1A is nowhere in sight.
It's real all right. It's even been offered up for exports.
After the success of the IN SDRs, DRDO is picking up SDR development for the IAF only now. Until then we will have to import.
It won't reduce the orders of Rafale, but it will make our own SFDR project more important. So more focus on indigenisation now.
MBDA's refusal to supply Meteors for the MKI is just an excuse. We can integrate the Meteor on the MKI without Russian assistance. We have done that for both Astra and Brahmos already.
Whereas on Tejas, we will need Israeli assistance for quite some time.
The meteor missile has codes written by france and only france can integrate it with any plane. India has codes of astra, brahmos and Su30. But france is not giving codes of Rafales, meteor to india. Integration requires codes of both missile and radar.
Do you know what is SDR? Can you give me difference for SDR if IAF and IN? Why can't SDR of IN beused for IAF?
The specifications of MiG21 is better than Marut in performance.
Also, India did not have engine for Marut whereas India had engine for MiG21. Marut engine was imported from Britain.
India did not improve upon MiG21 further. But that has nothing to do with Marut. Just because you have medicine does not mean you have to fall sick.
Long back in 1973, two sqn COs had a similar argument about HF-24 and Mig-21 performance. They decided to fly their aircraft in DACTs. Mig-21 was not able to even keep up with HF-24. At low levels, HF-24 out ran MIG-21 by a speed advantage of nearly 50kts and at medium altitudes it out turned Mig-21. The CO of Mig-21 accepted HF-24 to be a better fighter. it was than that USSR offered Mig-21Bis. Which killed HF-24 upgrade.
If we go by what PKS has specified about Super Sukhoi , he claims the entire deal is for 350 AC ( incl of 40 AC for SFC , I gather ) which means a further 80 are to be ordered which in all probability will be of Super Sukhoi specs.
This is akin to getting brand new AC and I reckon the entire deal ( incl the upgrades for the remaining MKI's ) will be in the range of 15-20 billion USD .
If everything goes right we should see the first Super Sukhoi AC roll out of Nashik in 2023-24 with a full squadron by 2025-26. Assuming that the upgrades would take place simultaneously on the older MKI's , all the production lines in HAL Nashik will be booked till 2035 & further .
Where's the scope for FGFA should it materialise around 2025 onwards for MII , given that HAL Bangalore will be busy with Tejas & AMCA when it materialises would be assembled / manufactured in TN ? @randomradio
This is akin to getting brand new AC and I reckon the entire deal ( incl the upgrades for the remaining MKI's ) will be in the range of 15-20 billion USD .
If everything goes right we should see the first Super Sukhoi AC roll out of Nashik in 2023-24 with a full squadron by 2025-26. Assuming that the upgrades would take place simultaneously on the older MKI's , all the production lines in HAL Nashik will be booked till 2035 & further .
Where's the scope for FGFA should it materialise around 2025 onwards for MII , given that HAL Bangalore will be busy with Tejas & AMCA when it materialises would be assembled / manufactured in TN ? @randomradio
Su30 production is about 13 a year and hence production if current batch will end by 2020. From 2021, the Super sukhoi has to begin. Hence roll out date for first squadron will be 2023.
Considering that India already has considerable manufacturing ability of Sukhoi 30, mere addition of radar and new engine and avionics upgrade is unlikely to cost 15-20 billion even for 80 planes.
Rafale itself cost 100 million a plane and 80 would cost 8 billion dollars without extra package. India does not need Sukhoi servicing from Russia or any extra package. So, the cost of upgrade is likely to be less than 8 billion for 80 planes
Assembling from CKDs takes lesser time.
Mentioned in some post above..
Speed depends on how fast Russia supplies the kit.