Sukhoi Su-30MKI

Hellfire said:
What I think in a cursory glance on discussion so far, @advaidhya (please correct me if am wrong) is trying to drive in is that the MKi can be used for delivery of a nuclear device in a conventional configuration as a toss bombing run. That is a fairly accurate picture.

One needs to recall or know (depending on previous awareness) that Indian Mig-23s and Mig-27s also practiced toss bombings back in 80s and 90s. Further, we had an An-32 squadron whose number I have transiently forgotten, which was dedicated for bombing roles (including non-conventional) till as late as early 2002 or so (don't recall the year exactly.

Just my two ... rupees worth ;)
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Wheeeeeeeee........boooom.
 
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Paro said:
the present su30s are already hardened faradays cage right? Apart from the canopy maybe.

Wouldn't adding additional electronics arm the weapon makes more sense than purchasing a whole new aircraft for that role?
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Yes, the MKIs are.

We can, but there's also the question of penetrating defences, which the Rafale is better at. When the MKI request was made by the SFC, the MKI was the best option at the time, now it's the Rafale. Tomorrow, it will be the AMCA. The day after, something else.
 
randomradio said:
Yes, the MKIs are.

We can, but there's also the question of penetrating defences, which the Rafale is better at. When the MKI request was made by the SFC, the MKI was the best option at the time, now it's the Rafale. Tomorrow, it will be the AMCA. The day after, something else.
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You have finally corrected yourself about Su-30 MKI ability of SFC. But you still seem to show great bias towards Rafale. Rafales loaded with heavy bombs will be far more vulnerable than Su30 with heavy bombs as Su30 has the engine power to propel the plane quickly without losing speed. Rafales will have some problems with that due to smaller size and lower engine power. RCS does not matter as Su30 will have some RAM coating to nullify the metallic body problems and Rafales are not stealth either.
 
advaidhya said:
You have finally corrected yourself about Su-30 MKI ability of SFC. But you still seem to show great bias towards Rafale. Rafales loaded with heavy bombs will be far more vulnerable than Su30 with heavy bombs as Su30 has the engine power to propel the plane quickly without losing speed. Rafales will have some problems with that due to smaller size and lower engine power. RCS does not matter as Su30 will have some RAM coating to nullify the metallic body problems and Rafales are not stealth either.
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You don't know what you are talking about.
 
advaidhya said:
You have finally corrected yourself about Su-30 MKI ability of SFC. But you still seem to show great bias towards Rafale. Rafales loaded with heavy bombs will be far more vulnerable than Su30 with heavy bombs as Su30 has the engine power to propel the plane quickly without losing speed. Rafales will have some problems with that due to smaller size and lower engine power. RCS does not matter as Su30 will have some RAM coating to nullify the metallic body problems and Rafales are not stealth either.
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Rafale for SFC will not carry heavy bombs but one or two missiles only to be fired from standoff range. SU-30MKI will get same capability with addition of Brahmos or may be even better. The DARE developed SPJ pod brings SU-30MKI nearly at par with Rafale in EW.
 
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vstol Jockey said:
Rafale for SFC will not carry heavy bombs but one or two missiles only to be fired from standoff range. SU-30MKI will get same capability with addition of Brahmos or may be even better. The DARE developed SPJ pod brings SU-30MKI nearly at par with Rafale in EW.
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There is an LFRJ development happening. That may become our nuclear missile. If we end up with something like that, then pretty much all our modern fighters can become nuclear weapons capable, with the exception of LCA.
 
Hellfire said:
What I think in a cursory glance on discussion so far, @advaidhya (please correct me if am wrong) is trying to drive in is that the MKi can be used for delivery of a nuclear device in a conventional configuration as a toss bombing run. That is a fairly accurate picture.

One needs to recall or know (depending on previous awareness) that Indian Mig-23s and Mig-27s also practiced toss bombings back in 80s and 90s. Further, we had an An-32 squadron whose number I have transiently forgotten, which was dedicated for bombing roles (including non-conventional) till as late as early 2002 or so (don't recall the year exactly.

Just my two ... rupees worth ;)
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I think toss bombing is practised by all our strike aircraft. Even Vstol has toss bombing training on his Harrier.
 
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A Person said:
The only "LFRJ" I know of is the ICAO code for the Landivisiau navy air base, so can you be more explicit?
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It's an R&D program meant to develop ramjet engines. Very little is known about the program. In fact, this is all we know about the program in open source. The engine development will likely give birth to our first set of indigenous ramjet missiles. The story is they want to develop a family of missiles, LRCM, with long and very long ranges, both ground launched and air launched, for nukes and other conventional weapons.

We legally cannot use Brahmos for delivering nukes. And the Brahmos may not be enough for this task anyway. Hence the missile developed through LFRJ.
 
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randomradio said:
There is an LFRJ development happening. That may become our nuclear missile. If we end up with something like that, then pretty much all our modern fighters can become nuclear weapons capable, with the exception of LCA.
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randomradio said:
Guess_Livefist_SLIDE.jpg


It's an R&D program meant to develop ramjet engines. Very little is known about the program. In fact, this is all we know about the program in open source. The engine development will likely give birth to our first set of indigenous ramjet missiles. The story is they want to develop a family of missiles, LRCM, with long and very long ranges, both ground launched and air launched, for nukes and other conventional weapons.

We legally cannot use Brahmos for delivering nukes. And the Brahmos may not be enough for this task anyway. Hence the missile developed through LFRJ.
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Yes its not a missile rather technology, will used as second stage while SFDR as first.

randomradio said:
It's real all right. It's even been offered up for exports..
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I don't believe plz provide some proof of K-100 in operation with IAF. All i've seen pics of proposed K-100 in some show being equipped on Russian flanker. I believe such proposal was rejected by India after series of advanced discussions just like FGFA.
 
Himanshu said:
Yes its not a missile rather technology, will used as second stage while SFDR as first.



I don't believe plz provide some proof of K-100 in operation with IAF. All i've seen pics of proposed K-100 in some show being equipped on Russian flanker. I believe such proposal was rejected by India after series of advanced discussions just like FGFA.
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K100 was an agreement signed in FY2004 along with indigenisation of Su30. Both happened simultaenously. There was no rejection. It may have been kept secret but in FY2004 itself Vajpayee had announced the deal. Unlike FGFA, there was no need for development as K100 was already operational then.
 
Himanshu said:
Yes its not a missile rather technology, will used as second stage while SFDR as first.
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No, that's not how it works. You need a solid rocket booster in the first stage, the second stage can be SFDR or LFRJ. You won't find both on the same missile. It's like saying a fighter jet will have 2 jet engines in the back and 2 propellers in the front.

The graphic mentions LRCM.

I don't believe plz provide some proof of K-100 in operation with IAF. All i've seen pics of proposed K-100 in some show being equipped on Russian flanker. I believe such proposal was rejected by India after series of advanced discussions just like FGFA.
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The last I heard, there was a report which said it had entered limited production quite sometime ago. Of course, there's no guarantee it has succeeded trials yet.
 
randomradio said:
No, that's not how it works. You need a solid rocket booster in the first stage, the second stage can be SFDR or LFRJ. You won't find both on the same missile. It's like saying a fighter jet will have 2 jet engines in the back and 2 propellers in the front.

The graphic mentions LRCM.
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We already did first test of nozzle-less booster for SFDR, LRCM could be such missile with SFDR as solid stage while LFRJ as liquid.

randomradio said:
The last I heard, there was a report which said it had entered limited production quite sometime ago. Of course, there's no guarantee it has succeeded trials yet.
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Ok

advaidhya said:
K100 was an agreement signed in FY2004 along with indigenisation of Su30. Both happened simultaenously. There was no rejection. It may have been kept secret but in FY2004 itself Vajpayee had announced the deal. Unlike FGFA, there was no need for development as K100 was already operational then.
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Like i said earlier i don't believe
 
Himanshu said:
So you're saying we can't have 3 stage missile for long range, why not? LFRJ can be remain off until terminal phase.
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Adding extra motor will waste lot of space and add extra weight. ince both are ramjet with the difference being liquid and solid fuel, there is no need to have 2 stage of RAMJET.
 
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