He talks about 350 planes .
272 old ones to be upgraded + 80 new ones to be assembled
Sukhoi Su-30MKI
- Thread starter Ashwin
- Start date
He talks about 350 planes .
272 old ones to be upgraded + 80 new ones to be assembled
PKS writes that the various avionics under joint development are scheduled to be tested from this year end onward. The process would take 2 years if everything goes right . Then comes the .manufacturing of the various sub assembly units.
Hence my timelines in the above post .
It would bankrupt India to upgrade Su30 abruptly. India is making Su30 with progressively advanced avionics. As of now, HAL-SAMTEL avionics is in place which was started about 5 years back. Upgrading new planes will bankrupt India. At least 170 of 270 planes will be too new to be overhauled.
But the current Su30 will end by 2020 end. By 2021, new ones have to be started or the workers will have to be laid off.
Super Su-30MKI Has Taken Shape
All the essential enhancements reqd for transforming the existing Su-30MKI into the Super Su-30MKI are now ready for installation/systems integration on either existing Su-30MKIs or even new-build Su-30MKIs (about 80 of which are required).
Under development since 2009 by the DRDO-owned Defence Avionics Research establishment (DARE) and by the Russia-based JSC V Tikhomirov Scientific Research Institute of Instrument Design, the avionics enhancements will now have to undergo flight certification trials at the Russia-based State Federal Unitary Enterprise Gromov Flight Research Institute at Zhukovsky.
DARE has sinmce 2009 been developing various elements of the mission avionics suite, which include the following:
SAMTEL-HAL Display Systems has completed developing panoramic AMLCDs for installation on the tandem-seat cockpit.
JSC V Tikhomirov Scientific Research Institute of Instrument Design has already developed an X-band ASESA-MMR variant of the NO-11M Bars PESA-MMR that currently equips the Su-30MKI.
The X-band AESA-MMR will thus enable the Super Su-30MKI cockpit crew to perform interleaved operations concurrently.
The 101KS-V IRST sensor will be the same as that on the Su-56 MRCA.
The countermeasures dispensers will for the first time be able to launch chaff cartridges supplied by UK-based Chemring. Previously, only flare cartridges could be launched.
Also to be installed will be RAFAEL's BNET-AR SDR, which functions as both a communications radio, as well as an operational tactical data-link.
And finally, the propulsion system too will be enhanced, with the AL-31FP turbofans giving way to the AL-41F-1S from NPO Saturn.
In charge of overall systems integration will be the Russia-based FSUE State Scientific Research Institute of Aviation Systems, or GosNIIAS. Altogether, two flying prototypes will be subjected to about 200 hours of flight-tests, which if begun by this year-end, should be completed by late 2020.
The Super Su-30MKI airframe will also be flight-certified for flying terrain-hugging flight profiles (about 100 metres ASL), thanks to the terrain avoidance mode of operation of the AESA-MMR. Existing Su-30MKIs are not able to fly ultra low-level flight profiles since the NO-11M PESA-MMR does not have the terrain avoidance operating mode.
TRISHUL: Super Su-30MKI Has Taken Shape
Apparently this article talks of 80 new super su30mki and AL41 engines...
All the essential enhancements reqd for transforming the existing Su-30MKI into the Super Su-30MKI are now ready for installation/systems integration on either existing Su-30MKIs or even new-build Su-30MKIs (about 80 of which are required).
Under development since 2009 by the DRDO-owned Defence Avionics Research establishment (DARE) and by the Russia-based JSC V Tikhomirov Scientific Research Institute of Instrument Design, the avionics enhancements will now have to undergo flight certification trials at the Russia-based State Federal Unitary Enterprise Gromov Flight Research Institute at Zhukovsky.
DARE has sinmce 2009 been developing various elements of the mission avionics suite, which include the following:
SAMTEL-HAL Display Systems has completed developing panoramic AMLCDs for installation on the tandem-seat cockpit.
JSC V Tikhomirov Scientific Research Institute of Instrument Design has already developed an X-band ASESA-MMR variant of the NO-11M Bars PESA-MMR that currently equips the Su-30MKI.
The X-band AESA-MMR will thus enable the Super Su-30MKI cockpit crew to perform interleaved operations concurrently.
The 101KS-V IRST sensor will be the same as that on the Su-56 MRCA.
The countermeasures dispensers will for the first time be able to launch chaff cartridges supplied by UK-based Chemring. Previously, only flare cartridges could be launched.
Also to be installed will be RAFAEL's BNET-AR SDR, which functions as both a communications radio, as well as an operational tactical data-link.
And finally, the propulsion system too will be enhanced, with the AL-31FP turbofans giving way to the AL-41F-1S from NPO Saturn.
In charge of overall systems integration will be the Russia-based FSUE State Scientific Research Institute of Aviation Systems, or GosNIIAS. Altogether, two flying prototypes will be subjected to about 200 hours of flight-tests, which if begun by this year-end, should be completed by late 2020.
The Super Su-30MKI airframe will also be flight-certified for flying terrain-hugging flight profiles (about 100 metres ASL), thanks to the terrain avoidance mode of operation of the AESA-MMR. Existing Su-30MKIs are not able to fly ultra low-level flight profiles since the NO-11M PESA-MMR does not have the terrain avoidance operating mode.
TRISHUL: Super Su-30MKI Has Taken Shape
Apparently this article talks of 80 new super su30mki and AL41 engines...
The Russians upgraded their Mig 21 F to PFM and to MiG-21 Bison, did we give Marut such a chance?
Marut did outperform the Migs and was expensive because we are learning to make,
Also a point to add, that that Marut was twin engine, and thus failure of one might not necessary mean loss of aircraft which is there in case of MiG-21.
Do I need to tell you about F-5 ? The Twin engine version of it called Freedom fighter was one of the best planes ever,
Capable, very maneuverable, was very maintenance friendly, cheap to use and maintain.
Marut did outperform the Migs and was expensive because we are learning to make,
Also a point to add, that that Marut was twin engine, and thus failure of one might not necessary mean loss of aircraft which is there in case of MiG-21.
Do I need to tell you about F-5 ? The Twin engine version of it called Freedom fighter was one of the best planes ever,
Capable, very maneuverable, was very maintenance friendly, cheap to use and maintain.
Marut did not have Indian engine whereas MiG21 had Indian engine. So, I find merit in saying that the process of learning to make engine was easier to learn by direct transfer of technology than spending years on making Marut engine from scratch.
Since USSR gave engine manufacturing to India, India could improve upon the engine and make a better one. If India did not even have engine, then making one itself would have taken time. Indua not choosing to improve the engine and build better one is Indian fault. But there is no reason to reinvent the engine from scratch when it was already given as technology transfer. At that time, bison was state of the art plane
He's basically saying we need 80 more MKIs, and they can be Super MKIs, if necessary. Hogwash. We have overdosed on MKIs already. Even 40 more will be out of sheer desperation, not out of active requirement.
All the MKIs will be upgraded in a phased manner. But it's not necessary for the entire fleet to get the Super MKI upgrade. We will need newer configurations as time passes. For example, the MKIs we are inducting today will not get the Super MKI upgrade, those will have to wait until after 2035 to get tech that doesn't exist yet. The current set of upgrades is for our oldest jets, ones that came in after 2002 to about 2009 or so. So anywhere between 50 and 100 jets. I'm assuming 80 jets.
SFC wants Rafale. The 36 Rafales we bought is related to the SFC purchase. It will be dual use.
AMCA will be assembled in Coimbatore if we go by current info. LCA and MCA in Bangalore. FGFA in Nashik.
SFC is nuclear bomb dropping, if I am right. MKI is also equally capable in doing that.
You just seem to dislike Su30 and like Rafale too much. Rafale has terribly poor engine of 50|75 kN which is way too less for its weight class.
Why are you so badly informed? You should just keep quiet and read.
The only MKIs earmarked for the nuclear mission exist on the Internet, and the pilots are all Internet warriors. And the only nuclear weapon it is supposed to carry is a nuclear tipped Brahmos, which doesn't exist.
As for engine power, can you explain why Rafale's external payload capacity is 9.5T while MKI's is 8T?
Su30 MKI has 10 ton payload and 10 ton fuel whereas Rafale has 5ton fuel and 9 ton payload.
But the problem with such calculation of payload is that Rafale can hardly fly with such payload. Rafale payload of 5-6 ton with 3 ton fuel itself becomes overburdened. Su30 is having extraordinary range just on internal fuel and can travel from Gujarat to north east without refuel. The payload has been compromised in return for higher range and better air superiority role.
Su30 can drop nuclear PGM too. There is no restrictions for that.
You do not understand how aircraft engine work.
The Rafale's engines are perfectly sufficient. The argument it needs more was propagated by Typhoon fanboys, and never by actual professionals.
Why do you think the French air force never asked for more powers? Each time the engines were ugpraded, they chose lower fuel consumption, lower maintenance cost, longer service life, etc. and never did they choose more power. None of the people who flew it think it needs more power.
Show me the 10T payload for MKI in any configuration.As I said, MKI is a nuclear aircraft only on the Internet. In real life, nope.
You just know nothing in aviation do you?
What is important for an aircraft it is the ratio between its thrust and its mass. The empty weight of the Rafale C is 9850 kg and the max thrust is 15000 kg what gives a ratio of 1.52 while the empty weight of the SU-30 MKI is 18400 kg with a max thrust of 24600 kg what gives a ratio of 1.34 much lower than that of the Rafale.
As for the maximum mass, the figures are 24500 kg for the Rafale and 38800 kg for the SU-30MKI, which gives ratios of 0.61 and 0.63 with a slight advantage for the SU-30 MKI, but it is only because the Rafale has exceptional performance to carry load, if for example the external load carried is limited to 8 t, i.e. the maximum external load that the SU-30 MKI can carry instead of 9.5 t which is the maximum external load that the Rafale can carry then the maximum mass of the Rafale becomes 23000 kg and the ratio becomes 0.65 which gives it the advantage over the SU-30 MKI.
What is the difference between an ordinary fighter and a nuclear aircraft? arent jaguars typically assigned for such roles in IAF, what is Su30mkis missing for such roles?
As I said, MKI is a nuclear aircraft only on the Internet. In real life, nope.
The electronics should be hardened to handle the EMP from a nuclear blast. Most modern aircraft are suitable for such a task.
But we separate conventional platforms from non-conventional platforms and tend to use only conventional weapons on conventional platforms. So MKI and Bhramos are meant for conventional weapons delivery only.
Apart from that, nuclear strike aircraft generally carry electronics that are used to arm and deploy nuclear weapons, which is absent on the MKI.
Currently it's the mirage 2000 that's configured for strategic strike role in IAF
the present su30s are already hardened faradays cage right? Apart from the canopy maybe.
Wouldn't adding additional electronics arm the weapon makes more sense than purchasing a whole new aircraft for that role?
I don't think so .
A su 30 was lost in North East , after that discussion broke out and India wanted MMRCA to have ability to withstand attack on flight computer s .