Good, with what ??? considering the Sanctions on Russia, and the integration of non russian weapons and sensors.
Sukhoi Su-30MKI
- Thread starter Ashwin
- Start date
Good, with what ??? considering the Sanctions on Russia, and the integration of non russian weapons and sensors.
old G-suits, 6G max, 4.5G sustained. New G-Suits 9g, sustained 6G.
We could hit 9G for a very brief period in old G-Guits but within no time suffered tunneling of vision and browning of vision which was the last step before G-LOC.
We could hit 9G for a very brief period in old G-Guits but within no time suffered tunneling of vision and browning of vision which was the last step before G-LOC.
Still worse than MiG-21.
There is a designed limit of 8G as set by flight computer, this is a parameter set after thousands of test flights & simulations and decided as the safe limit. You can type whatever you want but it will not change the fact that the same flight computer-mandated safety limit on MiG-21 is set considerably higher. That's just the way the airframe was designed.
Negligible, if not unnoticeable, effect. The force of gravity is not so different on one part of Earth from the other than it has any profound effect on aerodynamics that deal with G loads. A person who weighs 80kg in Russia does not weight 75kg in India. He weighs same 80kg.
What does effect aerodynamics however is the altitude from sea level at which your air base is located - which determines how much the atmospheric pressure is, which determines how much lift is achieved at takeoff - which in turn determines how much payload you can carry from the ground.
But once you're flying at set altitude, it's all the same everywhere to the best of my knowledge. Will leave it to some expert on aerodynamics to correct me if I'm wrong.
The Bars was upgraded three times. Mk.1 through Mk.3. It's still an obsolete system overall.
Sure we can but then it'd be an AESA of a very old, very less capable type - of the sort the US used in the 90s. Thing is, all AESA radars are not of the same generation, or the same level of technological advancement.
What non-Russian, non-Indian system do you want to integrate which has not already been done?
Meteor? Sure it would be nice if we could integrate that on Super-MKI but this affair is not to be. We will have options for both Russian RAMJET-powered BVRAAMs as well as future Astra Mk.2 with indigenous RAMJET derived from SFDR tech.
MiG21 does not have proper control. So, the demand from pilots is too high. Good luck in finding pilots who are able to do that regularly. AoA above 30 degree is not a joke.
Do you have evidence that there is a LOCK? I have no reason to believe in comical beliefs of yours.
I am speaking of efficiency of engine, air drag caused by moisture etc, not of gravity. Flying on a base near Odisha for example will require the plane facing salty moisturised air at high temperatures which will reduce engine efficiency. If you can't understand, don't speak on these things. Speak of how superman flies
For its generation the MiG-21 is a superb aircraft aerodynamically speaking. It shot more sophisticated types like F-104 Starfighter out of the sky.
Again I see you engaging in the same pitiful behavior as you did earlier with regard to fighters having cannons. You need to face the truth and understand eventually that everything the LCA does poorly in is not irrelevant, and stop thinking that only the things it does well are governing factors in combat.
Oh and btw, the F-35 is capable of up to 50 degrees and the Su-30MKI, thanks to canards and thrust-vectoring, can achieve a complete 180 degrees and still not lose control.
By lock, I mean limit. Limit can be crossed, as can locks be opened.
Then don't believe it.
You do realize that G stress limits are determined after testing all such factors, right? And you do realize that in a set environment - any atmospheric effect that serves to degrade performance of X aircraft will also have the same effect on Y aircraft as well?
I speak on what I want to speak. If you don't wish to see me posting, leave the thread or ignore me.
Yo were comparing with Tejas. Don't speak of its generation now.
Saying anything and then giving these kind of dramatics don't work. Speak with logic or don't speak.
Do you read? I clearly said that India tests under Indian conditions whereas others test at standard conditions. So, MiG21 limits are under standard conditions whereas Tejas limits is in Indian condition. It is like saying race car is faster than a tank while crossing desert sand. Race car has been tested on flat tracks and if it is used in sand, it will get stuck. Have some common sense and read properly before replying
Don't quote me if you are speaking anything and everything.
I'm comparing because Tejas was meant to be the replacement of MiG-21. And I don't like it when the replacement performs worse than the predecessor.
You are funny. The conversation with you has become amusing to me at this point.
So you think the conditions are same across all of India?
First show me where it was proven that conditions in India affect the G load limits of aircraft to the tune of +/- 0.5 Gs. Until and unless you can do that (which you are unable to), you are merely beating around the bush because you are incapable of facing the facts.And that fact being MiG-21 limit is set 0.5 Gs higher than that of LCA. And this is not some figure that I imagined up - this is from official literature of LCA straight from ADA website. Ignore it all you want and continue to live in a lala land where salt in atmosphere affects G load by 0.5...how you even come up with such fantasies I can't even imagine!
As I said, I do what I want to do. And as long as I'm not violating forum rules, I am free to do so. Does this offend you? Does this frustrate you?
If so, that is your problem.
NIIP has made a new AESA radar.
The sanctions won't affect existing programs and programs that are in discussion like S-400 and FGFA. And we can integrate whatever we want on Russian radars since we will have the source codes for it.
Are you sure we have the Source codes of the Russian Radars, lets start from the Kryopo Radar of the MIG 21 ?? Backup your claims with evidence or Link.
Obsolete really ?? In what term PESA, ESA, or AESA or the Backend Computer, or the Exciter, or the Software or the Modes or the Range.
Do you want to compete with the USAF. Now could you please explain me the Generations of AESA and the difference between PESA and AESA leaving the Sensor T/R modules aside.
1. Meteor
2. Python/Derby
3. Astra MK2
4. Brahmos NG
All of it.
By approximately this time next year (give or take a couple months), IAF's AESA-MMR technology will arrive at the league of USAF's present generation of AESAs. Although the RBE-2AA is overall a smaller radar than the types operated by the Americans, it is at a comparable technological level.
As of competing with USAF, well they're going to have a fleet of 1,760 F-35s so there's no competition really.
Some good reading: Active Electronically Steered Arrays - A Maturing Technology
This you can't because of the current geopolitical situation surrounding Russia and the West. Even if you put Indian radar on Su-30, the Meteor will still have to interface with Russian hardware in the plane so this is not possible even if do get Uttam as the West will refuse to integrate on Russian platform, regardless of what radar it has.
Israel has never made an issue out of integrating their stuff on Su-30 as far as hardware interfacing goes. What's the problem now? The LITENING LDP and ELM-2060P radar surveillance pods are already integrated on MKI. You don't need radar codes to integrate IR-guided WVRAAMs, but it's best to replace the Su-30's current Sura-K HMDS with Targo from Elbit (same one as we use on Tejas and will have on Rafale as well).
However last I heard, IAF is not actually impressed with Python-5. The seeker is great but the body & fin arrangement is giving vibration issues and other problems. So if IAF decides to ditch Python-5 in favor of a larger order for, say, AIM-132 ASRAAM, then we have a problem as this is a Western missile and we can't integrate this on MKI.
But we will still have access to the next-generation of Russian WVRAAMs which are now in development for Su-57 and can be integrated on all Flanker platforms as well.
Derby however will be a problem. But if you have access to next-gen BVRAAMs from Indian/Russian sources, you don't really need it anyway.
These are non-Indian, non-Russian systems?
The mission computer is India made and the radar antennae is also indigenised. So, yes, it is Indian and source codes are with India
Meteor is not feasible due to geopolitics, even if it is Indian made radar in Su30. Su30 has some Russian guarantee and that itself is unacceptable to NATO
Derby is not better than Astra (even MK1) and there is no reason to integrate it. However, Israel is not hesitating to integrate its weapons with Russian equipments. Israel has its own security concerns and is not interested in geopolitical wars with Russia.
Astra and Brahmos are India made. There is no problem
Good now Please Give me the Price of the Brand new MMR or the Upgrade cost for the 270 + MKI
LOL
I categorically asked you the Generation of AESA Radars leaving behind the Antenna and its Sensors
Half Knowledge. Python is a serious, dangerous, 360 degree coverage and battle proved CCM and Python 5 is the latest variants and of its GEN 3 variants are the ones with the Chinese designated as PL-8 produced under licensed and the South African took the technology to create A-Darter which the Pakistanis are dying to get their hands on. IAF was never not impressed with the Python-V, rather ask any IAF official, he will simply says, take anything from the Israel, because it works great. It is the same missile family, whose ship to Air missile is Barak-1, and Spyder SAM. ASHRAAM is a great missile but costly too and would needs the integration of the OLS fire control system of MKI, and the helmet mouted targeting system integration which will again bring the cost.
As far as the Vibration Concern statements of yours, that is related to the LCA Tejas MK1 development and its FOC certification, and not related to MKI.
Yes for the next generation Seeker and the Algorithm of the missile, and the Fire and Control Radar development of the indegenous programs aka Uttam and the Astra MK2 and the QRSAM and LRSAM development and not to mentioned the Integrated Air Battle field management system, BMD development, and indegenous tactical Links.
Desi Seeker have been fabricated and testing is on to replace the Russian Seeker. Brahmos is the product of the Brahmos Aerospace and the next awaited product is the Brahmos Mini/NG, and afterwards its Hypersonic variants.
Mission computer is different than the Radar's Computer and is produced by HAL/Elbits, However now we need something in the line of the French Dassault's MDPU for the data and sensor fussion.
Better in What Sense ??
The US have imposed the sanctioned on the Russia, and till it is there no Israeli company would risk to work with any Russian company for the integration.
Yes why not when the OEM of the weapon maker will give you the API needed for the integration, and Russia allows the HAL to do modification of the Pylon, Weapon Store system, or the wiring modification if needed and have faith in HAL's capability to test and validate they could issue the certification of the Sukhoi, without voiding any warranty.
And the most important the Time, therefore to integrate the R73 ccm in LCA Tejas we needs 2+ years, when the Pylon was of the Russian origin.
Astra is better than Derby in range. Derby is WVR or slightly better. The longer range derby is not used by India IMO. So, I don't see a reason to go for derby except as a test bed till Astra matures. R77 is slightly unreliable and hence derby is needed for that. But, in 2-3 years, Astra will be ready
As of the moment, I doubt even MoD/GoI knows the figures. The upgrade contracts have not been valued publicly and even Parliament has not been informed of the cost.
LOL all you want.
Do some reading. Computers, the chips the systems/processors are built on, and their architecture is changing constantly so its not that there is a defined generation of radar that correlates with the jet. Having a modern transceiver array built onto what is basically a 20 year old back end creates a bottleneck of sorts preventing the array from harnessing its maximum potential.
Time will tell what WVRAAM will be used on Super-MKI.
Erm...what?
What are you on about? I'm asking you about third party (non-Russian, non-Indian) equipment from likes of France or Israel which are likely to create a problem integrating with Su-30 and you are naming BrahMos? Are you crazy? Integrating any system of Russian and/or Indian origin will never be a problem because we have the source codes for integration and there is a buyer-seller agreement between our two countries that will allow customer-furnished equipment on MKI.
R-73's integration was three-fold. One, the wings did not have the strength to carry it, but that was fixed early on. Two, the Israel HMD. Three, the radar which was still under development.
This had nothing to do with the Russians.