Sukhoi Su-30MKI

Astra is better than Derby in range. Derby is WVR or slightly better. The longer range derby is not used by India IMO. So, I don't see a reason to go for derby except as a test bed till Astra matures. R77 is slightly unreliable and hence derby is needed for that. But, in 2-3 years, Astra will be ready

Wrong imformation. Firt Derby is a BVR and weight less than Astra-1 and have comparatively range and have the Agat Seeker, found in the RW AE aka R77 BVR of the Russian origin. Second Astra-2 is the one you are talking about that is better in range but is in Development leave aside the Production and deployment. Third Derby ER is the dual motor missile with SBR aka Software based Radar and is 80% of the Meteors capability with 1/3rd of the Cost. R77 is unreliable ?? wrong, the Russians are yet to produce the comparable Seeker and the Algorithm needed to identify the targets and the approach of the missile, and the capability to perform under the high ECM environment and the range of the No Escape range; the software codes actually makes the BVR dangerous.

My Advice don't takes the Range factor too much, because the advertised range is the range of the target, from the platform coming toward each other in the opposite direction and depends on many factors such as speed of the target and the platform, Altitude of Releasing the weapon and the approach or the path taken by the missile.
 
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Having a modern transceiver array built onto what is basically a 20 year old back end creates a bottleneck of sorts preventing the array from harnessing its maximum potential.
The chipset used even in the state of the art defence equipment is not better than 90nm and generally above that. The leakage current and reliability issues come up with modern chipset. These chipset are good for running on low power lithium battery but not on a fluctuating, high power scenario. Also, changing architecture and backend is a smaller job than building from scratch. India has already been developing radar backend with latest technology for things like AEWACS, UTTAM etc. So, that should be the easier part.

Wrong imformation. Firt Derby is a BVR and weight less than Astra-1 and have comparatively range and have the Agat Seeker, found in the RW AE aka R77 BVR of the Russian origin. Second Astra-2 is the one you are talking about that is better in range but is in Development leave aside the Production and deployment. Third Derby ER is the dual motor missile with SBR aka Software based Radar and is 80% of the Meteors capability with 1/3rd of the Cost. R77 is unreliable ?? wrong, the Russians are yet to produce the comparable Seeker and the Algorithm needed to identify the targets and the approach of the missile, and the capability to perform under the high ECM environment and the range of the No Escape range; the software codes actually makes the BVR dangerous.

My Advice don't takes the Range factor too much, because the advertised range is the range of the target, from the platform coming toward each other in the opposite direction and depends on many factors such as speed of the target and the platform, Altitude of Releasing the weapon and the approach or the path taken by the missile.
Derby has about 50-60% of Astra's range. The weight of derby is lower not because it is advanced technology but because it has lower range. Astra is in advanced stage of development in the seeker part. The propulsion has already been developed perfectly using Russian seekers. Limited order of 50 Astras have also been given.
 
The chipset used even in the state of the art defence equipment is not better than 90nm and generally above that. The leakage current and reliability issues come up with modern chipset. These chipset are good for running on low power lithium battery but not on a fluctuating, high power scenario. Also, changing architecture and backend is a smaller job than building from scratch. India has already been developing radar backend with latest technology for things like AEWACS, UTTAM etc. So, that should be the easier part.

What we develop does not come into the picture in this case (Super-MKI MMR) unless we decide against incorporating a fully Russian AESA derived from N036 of Su-57.
 
Obsolete really ?? In what term PESA, ESA, or AESA or the Backend Computer, or the Exciter, or the Software or the Modes or the Range.



Do you want to compete with the USAF. Now could you please explain me the Generations of AESA and the difference between PESA and AESA leaving the Sensor T/R modules aside.



1. Meteor
2. Python/Derby
3. Astra MK2
4. Brahmos NG
Are you trying to imply, Russians hold similar tech than what US hold?

And technology level (in radar) is pretty much same?

And yes, on western level, Russian tech is obsolete. Not just Radars, on each and every department , be it civilian or military.


That's why Russians want G to G deals, and don't want to compete in competitions.

This is only Indians foolish enough to say Russians hold parity in tech against west.



So, please wake me up, when Russians even able to match Indians in AESA technology, leave alone Americans.:ROFLMAO:
 
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And yes, on western level, Russian tech is obsolete. Not just Radars, on each and every department , be it civilian or military.
Russia does not have civilian technology. Russia focuses mainly on defence. There is no reason t say Russian technology is obsolete. West is not filled with superman and tony stark to get high end technology which Russia can't get. Stop spreading fake news and propaganda.
 
Russia does not have civilian technology. Russia focuses mainly on defence. There is no reason t say Russian technology is obsolete. West is not filled with superman and tony stark to get high end technology which Russia can't get. Stop spreading fake news and propaganda.
Okey cool.

So please name the AESA radar Russians developed in 80s and 90s.

Or which AESA radar is in there AEW&CS?

Or which AESA FCR and Search Radars they use in S400?
 
Okey cool.

So please name the AESA radar Russians developed in 80s and 90s.

Or which AESA radar is in there AEW&CS?

Or which AESA FCR and Search Radars they use in S400?
You are the one that claimed Russian technology is obsolete. You prove your point. Not developing AESA in 1980s is not an explanation. The Su30 radar, for example, is a very complex radar and not simple PESA. This showed the quality of Russian engineering back then in 1990s. Russia had developed AESA by 2005, much earlier than France or any non-USA country.

Do you think the radars of S400 or AEWACS of Russia is a common knowledge? Do you know what radar is being used? Does it matter if all radar is AESA or not? What matters is whether the quality is good or not. That is good and there is no doubt, especially in case of S400.
 
You are the one that claimed Russian technology is obsolete. You prove your point. Not developing AESA in 1980s is not an explanation. The Su30 radar, for example, is a very complex radar and not simple PESA. This showed the quality of Russian engineering back then in 1990s. Russia had developed AESA by 2005, much earlier than France or any non-USA country.
Ohh, that's why Chinese ordered PESA(Irbis-E) radar from Russia for Su-35, not there AESA radar which developed using martian tech. Maybe they unable to understand how this radar operates, because of Kryptonian technologies are involved.

Do you think the radars of S400 or AEWACS of Russia is a common knowledge? Do you know what radar is being used? Does it matter if all radar is AESA or not? What matters is whether the quality is good or not. That is good and there is no doubt, especially in case of S400.

Hell yes, if you are ignorant. Dont blame public for that.
 
The chipset used even in the state of the art defence equipment is not better than 90nm and generally above that. The leakage current and reliability issues come up with modern chipset. These chipset are good for running on low power lithium battery but not on a fluctuating, high power scenario. Also, changing architecture and backend is a smaller job than building from scratch. India has already been developing radar backend with latest technology for things like AEWACS, UTTAM etc. So, that should be the easier part.

That is the Hardware Part. Infact, most of the building blocks of a Modern RADAR aka Radar computer, Exciter, Filter, Transmitter, Antenna have become modular, and I know what I am talking about, the Actual Radar is mostly the Software and the Algorithm, and the threat Library, since hardware only acts as the Sensors giving the inputs to be processed. It is an continuous process, to update according to the threats and the enemy and targets.

Derby has about 50-60% of Astra's range. The weight of derby is lower not because it is advanced technology but because it has lower range. Astra is in advanced stage of development in the seeker part. The propulsion has already been developed perfectly using Russian seekers. Limited order of 50 Astras have also been given.

I am talking about Derby-ER. BTW already mentioned before, all those ranges are Marketing ranges, and depends on the altitude and speed of the releasing aircraft, and the direction of enemy direction and speed. What's matter is the no escape range, and the energy left in end game, and the algorithm for the detection of the target and the path taken toward the target.

So, please wake me up, when Russians even able to match Indians in AESA technology, leave alone Americans.

LOL, You have made the AESA as Galactic Technology. My dear friend when you talk about the AESA, its the T/R module which goes to the Antenna, but what you left is 90% of other radar part. You forgot backend Computer, its software, exciter, filter, power circuit, display unit etc. Now comes the modes of the operations, LPI capabilities, and the Library for the threat detection, which I am leaving to avoid the complexity.

Russia don't lags in the AESA, rather it lags in the Fabrication of these T/R modules economically. In case of India, we could easily procure such modules from BAE and europe. There is an active support from the Israeli companies in our desi radar development.
 
LOL, You have made the AESA as Galactic Technology. My dear friend when you talk about the AESA, its the T/R module which goes to the Antenna, but what you left is 90% of other radar part. You forgot backend Computer, its software, exciter, filter, power circuit, display unit etc. Now comes the modes of the operations, LPI capabilities, and the Library for the threat detection, which I am leaving to avoid the complexity.

Russia don't lags in the AESA, rather it lags in the Fabrication of these T/R modules economically. In case of India, we could easily procure such modules from BAE and europe. There is an active support from the Israeli companies in our desi radar development.

So, in this globalized world are you saying this is our fault that we are connected with the west and our loving joos?

And russians idiotically roaming around like zombies?
And please wake me up, when Russians integrate AESA FCRs in S400. And yes if you hold manufacturing incapability, and then unable to import critical parts. Then yes you are lagging behind.

Your operational capability of Armed Forces lagging behind.
Ask your loving brothers, when they going to use Zhuk-ME which they developed in last decade in there Su-35? But no, they are far ahead.
 
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Both engines have the same length and diameter. The diameter is 1.3m.

Both Su-35 and MKI have the same engine housing in fact. And even the inlets are the same size, so having a large compressor face doesn't make a difference.

You were right - Ufa motor plant now id doing R&D for Rusian MoD: integration of AL-41F-1C engine with Su-30SM aka Su-30MKI. So the everything is possible
 

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So, in this globalized world are you saying this is our fault that we are connected with the west and our loving joos?

And russians idiotically roaming around like zombies?
And please wake me up, when Russians integrate AESA FCRs in S400. And yes if you hold manufacturing incapability, and then unable to import critical parts. Then yes you are lagging behind.

Your operational capability of Armed Forces lagging behind.
Ask your loving brothers, when they going to use Zhuk-ME which they developed in last decade in there Su-35? But no, they are far ahead.

The Russians have made GaN AESA radars for the S-500. The latest A-100 AWACS will also have GaN AESA. Both systems are undergoing tests.

As for operational systems, the S-400's NEBO-M is AESA.

They are also testing AESA seekers.
27_175654_398256486d17af8.jpg


Both Zhuk-AE for Mig-35 and N036 for PAK FA have qualified for limited production as well.
 
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Russia To Order Improved Su-30 'Flankers'
by Vladimir Karnozov

- September 15, 2018, 2:45 AM



Among the 90 or so Su-30SMs delivered to the Russian VKS to date are eight operated by the 'Russian Knights' aerobatic display team. (photo: Vladimir Karnozov)

Russia’s defense ministry intends to procure 36 more Sukhoi Su-30SM two-seat multirole fighters, according to Yuri Slyusar, head of United Aircraft Corporation. A firm order is expected later this year. The ministry had already provided funds in the 2017 budget for research and development work on the refurbishment of earlier aircraft with higher-thrust engines.

A recently published report by the United Engine Corporation indicates that its Ufa Machinery-Building Production Organization (UMPO) is working on an adaptation for the Su-30SM of the AL-41F-1S engine that powers the Su-35S to attain a higher degree of commonality between the two types. The effort involves the Sukhoi design bureau and Irkut aircraft manufacturing plant. Replacing the current AL-31FP with the AL-41F-1S would result in an extra thrust of four tonnes for the 38-tonne aircraft.


More power promises to boost the Su-30SM’s flight performance and, in combination with a more powerful APU, provide more electric power for the radar. Current production aircraft are equipped with the Bars-R fire control system. It is a further development of the N-011M Bars in the customized Indian Su-30MKI with technology insertions from the later N-035 Irbis that is installed in the Su-35S. While the Bars and Irbis have similarly sized antennas—about 900 mm (35 inches) in diameter—the latter’s emitting power rises from 1.5 kW on average to 5, the peak power from 4.5 to 20, and target illumination from one to two. The Bars-R’s figures fall in between. Refurbished with the AL-41F-1S, an improved Su-30SM may have its radar output brought to levels that match those of the Su-35. Higher radar power would make it possible to employ longer-range missiles. Instead of the RVV-AE medium-range active radar-guided missiles on export aircraft, the Russian Air and Space Force (VKS) employs the more advanced RVV-SD, a further evolution of the baseline R-77.

These and other innovations help boost the Su-30SM’s attractiveness to foreign customers. According to Slyusar, existing orders and commitments enable Irkut’s production line to run to 2022, proceeding at a pace of 12 to 14 units per year. “Export prospects remain in several countries,” remarked the UAC head. Tehran, in particular, has long been asking Moscow for the right to conduct license production, but the Kremlin has been hesitating to strike such a deal before 2020 when UN sanctions on the Islamic Republic expire.

The Su-30SM has already secured 12 orders from Belarus and 23 from Kazakhstan, with the latter declaring an intent to buy 36. India, Algeria, and Malaysia have procured 348 Su-30MKI/MKA/MKM aircraft between them, including kits for assembly at HAL’s Nasik division, a program that is ongoing. Earlier this year, Myanmar signed for six aircraft. This brings the total figure of Su-30MKI/SM exports to more than 400.

At home, the Russian MoD placed the framework contract for the Su-30SM in March 2012, ahead of the first prototype flight in September that year. An initial batch was delivered to the air regiment at the Domna air force base in February 2014. More than a hundred Su-30SMs have been delivered to the VKS and the navy’s air arm. With domestic orders added, the grand total of orders for the Su-30MKI/SM rises to more than 500.

Whereas the Su-30SM is almost impossible to distinguish visually from the Su-30MKI, it differs in having a more advanced avionics and mission equipment, reflecting the advances made during the time between the programs. The first deliverable Su-30MKI flew for the first time in November 2000, while the SM reached that point almost 12 years later. In the customized Indian version the glass cockpit is fitted with Thales 5-by-5-inch MFDs, which were retained in the initial production Su-30SMs. In the future, however, they will be replaced by larger Russian-made units, possibly the 15-inch MFD-35 used in the Su-35S and Su-57.

The Elbit Systems SU967 HUD is replaced by the Thales Avionics SMD55S/VEN-3022 with a wider field of view and sharper, smoother imagery. Work is ongoing to replace it with a Russian system, the candidates being the IKSh-1M as in the Su-35S, or ShKS-5 from the Su-57. The inertial system is the LINS-100RS, a localized Sagem Sigma-95, which is more advanced than the Thales INS/GPS Totem in the Su-30MKI. The RAM-1701 radio altimeter, IFF-1410A IFF, INCOM-1012A communications, and Tarang HADF Mk II radar warning systems that were selected by India for the MKI are replaced by Russian substitutes in the SM. Indian/Israeli EW systems are replaced by the KRET Khibiny series with antennas housed in wingtip pods.

Russia To Order Improved Su-30 'Flankers'
 
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Hello, I read recently that the Russians only want to work with HAL. I can't find the source of this information. Does anyone have a link to similar information, is that true and is it official?
 
Hello, I read recently that the Russians only want to work with HAL. I can't find the source of this information. Does anyone have a link to similar information, is that true and is it official?
Russia has always been reluctant at working with private companies. Russia tries its best to only work with govt companies (PSUs). The info you got is correct
 
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Thank God for Super Sukhoi coming up..
Next 6 months will be interesting.

When Aashish comes back .
We would have further ideas about it.

After that Aero India ..

Then elections..

Then post elections..

What happens to #Aashish
 
The Russians have made GaN AESA radars for the S-500. The latest A-100 AWACS will also have GaN AESA. Both systems are undergoing tests.

As for operational systems, the S-400's NEBO-M is AESA.

They are also testing AESA seekers.
27_175654_398256486d17af8.jpg


Both Zhuk-AE for Mig-35 and N036 for PAK FA have qualified for limited production as well.
I am not sure if IAF will pick either of these radars for MKI upgrade, will post more about it when I have some prelim info. But one thing is for sure both the navy and Iaf are very interested in the concept of K77 Aesa variant and future Aesa astra.