Sukhoi Su-30MKI
- Thread starter Ashwin
- Start date
It's an F-15 model Russians use for RCS testing probably.
Indian Government Justifies Higher Cost of Locally-Developed Su-30s
Disagreeing with the opposition's interpretation of an audit report that found that Su-30 fighter jets supplied to the Indian Air Force by the local firm HAL are costlier than those supplied by the Russian OEM, the India government has clarified that the version being locally manufactured have been modified for enhanced operational capability.
New Delhi (Sputnik) — India's defence ministry has listed several reasons for the higher costs of the Su-30 fighter jets supplied to the Indian Air Force (IAF) from the local production line, in comparison to those supplied directly by the original Russian manufacturer.
Subhash Bhamre, India's Minister of State for Defence, said on Wednesday that the foremost reason for the higher cost is that the specifications of the Russian SU-30 and indigenously manufactured SU-30MKI are not the same; hence, a one to one comparison of cost may not be appropriate.
State-owned Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) is currently producing the Su-30MKI at a flyaway cost of around $62 million per aircraft, which is around $22 million higher than the Su-30 jet supplied by Russia.
"Additional modifications are incorporated in the indigenous Su-30MKI to enhance the operational capability and to suit Indian Air Force (IAF) requirements. Owing to the low volume of production of the Indian SU-30 MKI as compared to the —Russian SU-30, economies of scale come into play," Minister Subhash Bhamre argued while replying to a query raised by a fellow parliamentarian.
Bhamre added that being a Transfer of Technology (ToT) programme, the total cost also involves payment of license fee to the Russian side.
HAL imports raw materials and proprietary components from Russian firms and assembles them at its production facility in Nasik. HAL is presently assembling the last 23 Su-30MKI on order from the Ministry of Defence.
"Import of raw materials and proprietary components from Russia involves dependency on Russian Original Equipment Manufacturers (OEMs) for the offered kit costs, which are not proportionate with the kit contents," Bhamre added.
The twin-seater, twin-engine Su-30MKI, developed by Russian aircraft maker Sukhoi and license-built in India, constitutes the backbone of the IAF. While the first 50 Su-30 aircraft were built in Russia, over 200 fighter jets were assembled in India.
The Indian defence ministry has also argued that indigenous manufacturing will create advanced skill sets in the country, a step towards self-reliance.
"Indigenous manufacturing will result in a lower life-cycle cost and reduced dependency on OEM on repair and maintenance and faster turn-around time and quick support to IAF bases," Minister Bhamre further added.
Last year, HAL had offered to produce 40 additional Su-30MKI for the IAF at much a much lower court, but India turned down the offer.
"Since the facilities are indigenously established, future production supplies are likely to be cheaper if a new order for bulk production is placed on HAL," Bhamre concluded.
Disagreeing with the opposition's interpretation of an audit report that found that Su-30 fighter jets supplied to the Indian Air Force by the local firm HAL are costlier than those supplied by the Russian OEM, the India government has clarified that the version being locally manufactured have been modified for enhanced operational capability.
New Delhi (Sputnik) — India's defence ministry has listed several reasons for the higher costs of the Su-30 fighter jets supplied to the Indian Air Force (IAF) from the local production line, in comparison to those supplied directly by the original Russian manufacturer.
Subhash Bhamre, India's Minister of State for Defence, said on Wednesday that the foremost reason for the higher cost is that the specifications of the Russian SU-30 and indigenously manufactured SU-30MKI are not the same; hence, a one to one comparison of cost may not be appropriate.
State-owned Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) is currently producing the Su-30MKI at a flyaway cost of around $62 million per aircraft, which is around $22 million higher than the Su-30 jet supplied by Russia.
"Additional modifications are incorporated in the indigenous Su-30MKI to enhance the operational capability and to suit Indian Air Force (IAF) requirements. Owing to the low volume of production of the Indian SU-30 MKI as compared to the —Russian SU-30, economies of scale come into play," Minister Subhash Bhamre argued while replying to a query raised by a fellow parliamentarian.
Bhamre added that being a Transfer of Technology (ToT) programme, the total cost also involves payment of license fee to the Russian side.
HAL imports raw materials and proprietary components from Russian firms and assembles them at its production facility in Nasik. HAL is presently assembling the last 23 Su-30MKI on order from the Ministry of Defence.
"Import of raw materials and proprietary components from Russia involves dependency on Russian Original Equipment Manufacturers (OEMs) for the offered kit costs, which are not proportionate with the kit contents," Bhamre added.
The twin-seater, twin-engine Su-30MKI, developed by Russian aircraft maker Sukhoi and license-built in India, constitutes the backbone of the IAF. While the first 50 Su-30 aircraft were built in Russia, over 200 fighter jets were assembled in India.
The Indian defence ministry has also argued that indigenous manufacturing will create advanced skill sets in the country, a step towards self-reliance.
"Indigenous manufacturing will result in a lower life-cycle cost and reduced dependency on OEM on repair and maintenance and faster turn-around time and quick support to IAF bases," Minister Bhamre further added.
Last year, HAL had offered to produce 40 additional Su-30MKI for the IAF at much a much lower court, but India turned down the offer.
"Since the facilities are indigenously established, future production supplies are likely to be cheaper if a new order for bulk production is placed on HAL," Bhamre concluded.
its one step for HAL, and one giat leap for the chinese, russians, USA
well F*** me.. its costly if you import, its costly if you make at home
and for low economies of scale -
Russia made the first 50 MKI and then provided knocked down kits for next 40 ish (not sure on the exact number) and the rest 150 (out of total 240 right now) were to be made in HAL.
Russia themselves have less than 200 SU-20 SMs - how much more economies of scale do you need? the more news of DPSUs I hear the more I get frustrated. if this is how I performed at my job I would be fired a hundred times over and next time I send a resume to any job, they will call me to explain that they are not fools.
Out of 140 jets HAL was responsible for, 80 came in the form of kits and 60 are production from raw material stage. An additional 82 came in the form of kits.
Russian has built close to 444 SU30's and about 650 SU27 variants, there costs are going to be lower than India.
Can't compare Russia's economies of scale with India's, especially considering how they have multiple programs, not just Flankers, all feeding off of the same infrastructure and resources.
wiki says russia has less than 200 su 20 SM in service - I forgot about the export orders perhaps.
I was hoping that in the past 40 years - we should have built up the infrastructure and resources so they are not a bottleneck. DPSUs have had the best infra up until when L&Ts and Mahindras came along. even now I believe some DPSUs still have the best minds and resources. we should probably stop making excuses and accept that we are falling short - then we can start fixing the issues.
But IAF already rejected such proposal, well its MoD's decision to take. I think it's better to buy more 3 squads of su-30mki to keep HAL's mouth shut and keep the production line active till super su-30. We could install indigenous systems like DARE's HBJ pod, new cockpit etc on it. The enemy will think all of them are modified to equip BrahMos-A so good for deterrence. Russia would be happy too.
Most likely these 40 will be of Super Sukhoi standard with additional feature to fire Brahmos.
It's better for the Nashik line to be converted to an LCA line.
These will be standard MKI. New build Super MKI need extensive negotiations again, which will take 1 or 2 years making it pointless to buy.
Also, by the time these jets come in, Brahmos-M will have become active, so all MKI will be able to fire it without modifications.
I think the window for buying more MKI is over. If we place an order for more Rafale instead, we will get them in the same timeframe as the 40 MKIs.
