Sukhoi Su-30MKI

Lolwa said:
I don't think the jf-17's can even carry the pl-15's in the first place. The madrassachaps were saying they would have irst,ifr probes and pl-15 integration. But it seems like neither do they have irst nor the ifr probes. Right now if we upgrade the mk1 to foc standard with aesa they will be automatically be superior to the blk 3's. The mk 2 mwf will be on par with j-10C's. I hope drdo is working on a spectra like system for the mk 2 and towed decoys.
As for artillery we need to make a Iskander copy and the artillery corps atleast needs to get access of tactical ballistic missiles upto 1000 km. Basically sub 200 km with
122 mm, 216 mm, 300 mm, 400/450mm an atacms copy. We have prahaar,pralay series of missiles. We need an Iskander equivalent. And a df-26 type ballistic missile. Also cheap ballistic missiles like scuds that can be exported as well as mass produced extremely cheaply.
Since the IAF also getting ballistic missiles and want a ground component they can also get acess of upto 1500 km of munitions.
The nirbhay should be upgrade to upto 3000-4000 km range (kalibr m by the Russians and the cj-10 has 3000-3500 km ranges though no idea if they are ready or not).
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DRDO should bring the private player to design and development of Towed decoy it will be difficult for DRDO to work on every new development. ATACMS is similar to Prahar like system... I am expecting 300 mm MBRL systems for carpet bombing, we should develop something indigenously which will be equivalent to Chinese AR - 3 max 200 k.m. range

AR3 MBRL Link

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Hydra said:
https://twitter.com/x/status/1510602337097687042
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Su-35-S does have MAWS, LWR & wingtip jammer pods.
Super-Sukhoi may not be enough. DIRCM is important against IR missiles & effective broadband jamming with decoy perhaps required against RF missiles. Sukhoi's big RCS is its own biggest threat today. It might be too late to change the airframe's material from metal alloys to Carbon/Graphite/Fiberglass based epoxy.
 
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Bhartiya Naagrik Sainik said:
Su-35-S does have MAWS, LWR & wingtip jammer pods.
Super-Sukhoi may not be enough. DIRCM is important against IR missiles & effective broadband jamming with decoy perhaps required against RF missiles. Sukhoi's big RCS is its own biggest threat today. It might be too late to change the airframe's material from metal alloys to Carbon/Graphite/Fiberglass based epoxy.
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No,it's RCS isn't a big concern as on today. Ys it's having a higher RCS and will be detected earlier by an F16. But it cannot be engaged with current missile systems except meteor before mki detect F16 or any other non stealth aircraft.
The biggest draw back of mki is it's inadequate ew systems & sub-par AAM.
 
Hydra said:
No,it's RCS isn't a big concern as on today. Ys it's having a higher RCS and will be detected earlier by an F16. But it cannot be engaged with current missile systems except meteor before mki detect F16 or any other non stealth aircraft.
The biggest draw back of mki is it's inadequate ew systems & sub-par AAM.
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Material composition comtributing to RCS is a problem for all 4th gen jets, it is simple physics & chemistry with no deniability. So Sukhois can be engaged with AMRAAM by F-16. Some of our MKIs are already upgraded with wingtip jammers. If you don't wanna rely on Russian R-77 then I-Derby-ER & MICA have been integrated. In BVR, among 4th gen jets, who will win is hard to be concluded until a real face-off.
 
Bhartiya Naagrik Sainik said:
Material composition comtributing to RCS is a problem for all 4th gen jets, it is simple physics & chemistry with no deniability. So Sukhois can be engaged with AMRAAM by F-16. Some of our MKIs are already upgraded with wingtip jammers. If you don't wanna rely on Russian R-77 then I-Derby-ER & MICA have been integrated. In BVR, among 4th gen jets, who will win is hard to be concluded until a real face-off.
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MKI is having disadvantages only in the arena of EW system & It's sub-par Russian origin weapons I believe.
It's having high RCS,so for Eagle too. You may detect MKI earlier,but you cannot engage it before you get detected by MKI. It's simple, limitation of current AAM is the key factor. FYI any non stealth fighter will have 3-5 M2 minimum RCS with basic weapon configuration,this is sufficient enough for MKI to detect you much before you are in a position to fire missile on MKI.
Hydra said:
MKI is having disadvantages only in the arena of EW system & It's sub-par Russian origin weapons I believe.
It's having high RCS,so for Eagle too. You may detect MKI earlier,but you cannot engage it before you get detected by MKI. It's simple, limitation of current AAM is the key factor. FYI any non stealth fighter will have 3-5 M2 minimum RCS with basic weapon configuration,this is sufficient enough for MKI to detect you much before you are in a position to fire missile on MKI.
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Bhartiya Naagrik Sainik said:
Material composition comtributing to RCS is a problem for all 4th gen jets, it is simple physics & chemistry with no deniability. So Sukhois can be engaged with AMRAAM by F-16. Some of our MKIs are already upgraded with wingtip jammers. If you don't wanna rely on Russian R-77 then I-Derby-ER & MICA have been integrated. In BVR, among 4th gen jets, who will win is hard to be concluded until a real face-off.
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If I derby is integrated & is as good as it advertised,F16 is a sitting duck infront of MKI. Just like how F15 Eagle with its high RCS will knock out any low observable aircraft in air to air configuration.
 
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Hydra said:
MKI is having disadvantages only in the arena of EW system & It's sub-par Russian origin weapons I believe.
It's having high RCS,so for Eagle too. You may detect MKI earlier,but you cannot engage it before you get detected by MKI. It's simple, limitation of current AAM is the key factor. FYI any non stealth fighter will have 3-5 M2 minimum RCS with basic weapon configuration,this is sufficient enough for MKI to detect you much before you are in a position to fire missile on MKI.


If I derby is integrated & is as good as it advertised,F16 is a sitting duck infront of MKI. Just like how F15 Eagle with its high RCS will knock out any low observable aircraft in air to air configuration.
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I think in dogfight MKI will defeat other non-TVC jets of Pak & China mostly, with CCM or gun.
But in BVR among 4th gen jets approaching with relative velocity >Mach-1 then practically the time & distance from 1st side detection to 2nd side launch decreases rapidly & may not provide any advantage to either side.
AIM-120C range = >100Km
R-77 range = >80-110Km
I-Derby-ER range = >100Km
All are rated around Mach-4 speed.
So ultimately both sides will see eachother before launch capability. Both will launch almost at same time. The missiles will reach their targets in around 1minute. Now it is the battle b/w missile & jet AIM-120C Vs MKI & I-Derby-ER Vs F-16. Considering example of F-15 Vs LO jet is not comparable bcoz now the battle is b/w missile & target jet. I can't comment on which missile is better - AIM-120C-5 or I-Derby-ER.
On 27 February 2019, Pak claimed to kill MKI with AIM-120C which was nullified.
In May 2019, it was reported that we were planning to arm MKI with I-Derby ER missiles to replace its R-77 missiles.
In 2019, 400-700+ R-77 were ordered for MiG-29UPG/K & MKI.
So MKIs will probably carry combo of improved R-77 & I-Derby-ER.
 
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Bhartiya Naagrik Sainik said:
I think in dogfight MKI will defeat other non-TVC jets of Pak & China mostly, with CCM or gun.
But in BVR among 4th gen jets approaching with relative velocity >Mach-1 then practically the time & distance from 1st side detection to 2nd side launch decreases rapidly & may not provide any advantage to either side.
AIM-120C range = >100Km
R-77 range = >80-110Km
I-Derby-ER range = >100Km
All are rated around Mach-4 speed.
So ultimately both sides will see eachother before launch capability. Both will launch almost at same time. The missiles will reach their targets in around 1minute. Now it is the battle b/w missile & jet AIM-120C Vs MKI & I-Derby-ER Vs F-16. Considering example of F-15 Vs LO jet is not comparable bcoz now the battle is b/w missile & target jet. I can't comment on which missile is better - AIM-120C-5 or I-Derby-ER.
On 27 February 2019, Pak claimed to kill MKI with AIM-120C which was nullified.
In May 2019, it was reported that we were planning to arm MKI with I-Derby ER missiles to replace its R-77 missiles.
In 2019, 400-700+ R-77 were ordered for MiG-29UPG/K & MKI.
So MKIs will probably carry combo of improved R-77 & I-Derby-ER.
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What I want to say MKI doesn't have any disadvantages against non stealth fighter due to its RCS. Who will win BVR fight involving MKI is depend upon EW suit,AAM missile.
 
Hydra said:
What I want to say MKI doesn't have any disadvantages against non stealth fighter due to its RCS. Who will win BVR fight involving MKI is depend upon EW suit,AAM missile.
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That's what i also concluded but it seems you side-tracked to air-air battle with F-16 Vs MKI when the Twitter post was Su-35 Vs SAMs. There the RCS will matter.
That user also tweeted wrong data that "it doesn't have MAWS system also like Su-30MKIs" when Su-35 has MAWS & LWR while MKI has neither. In netxt line he tells IAF to upgrade MKI with MAWS, so his lines are contradictory due to impulsive response perhaps.
Hence i replied here with correction & that 4th gen jets have metal alloy bodies while 5th gen have graphite/fiber-glass/carbon-epoxy bodies to lower RCS & it might be late to alter MKI's body.
 
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Su-35 on alert status shot down fellow Russian training Su-30SM - Who will buy this story? 🤪 😂 :ROFLMAO:
And the Su-35 on alert status was carrying only gun ammo but not missiles 😆🤣
Further, it is revealed/assumed that Su-35 avionics S/w cannot tell if gun ammo is loaded or not?????? Hence the pilot accidentally shot his fellow. Do u believe it? 😵:unsure::LOL:
Alert status jets don't participate in training excercises, flypasts, etc & vice-versa also true in most cases depending upon geography, threat level, etc.
Secondly, in simulated gun-fights the CCIP reticle staying for just a second over target is counted as gunshot, which is also recorded by HUD-camera & avionics which is compiled into 1 battlespace sim from all jets & discussed after the excercie for improvements. Dummy/inert bombs & missiles are also available for excercises.
Also, as jets are becoming more S/w oriented, H/w functions are being transformedinto S/w ones. They need not just a master-arm safety switch but either authorization codes or a simulation mode entered from HUD panel or MFD when it is sure that a live weapon will be fired that too in te area of conflict.
There are safety mechanisms, procedures in every proffession & industry.

 
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Sathya said:
Su 30 mki is going Jaguar way..

Better to think about replacement than about upgrade..

Coz we are going to talk about upgrade .. Talk about... Talk.. And then some more talk..
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IAF was waiting for 2022 but now 2025 is the new 2022. Don't be surprised if come 2025 the date gets pushed further still.
 
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randomradio said:
Not necessarily. This deal is by HAL, whereas LCA's deal will be under ADA. BEL's tech will have to be considered separately.
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Things like this we should collate all the technology and manpower we have under a single leadership. Will deliver quicker results.

GTRE and HAL should share the engine technology both of them posses and work together for engines too.

This should be the way forward. God please get someone who has actually studied MBA to oversee these operations.

Developers aren't always the leaders you need.
 
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