Ukraine - Russia Conflict

[_Anonymous_]

West’s sanctions target the seller, Russia. But now they’ve begun to hurt buyers too

All things considered, might it have been better & cheaper, shed less blood, and avoided a huge refugee problem if Russia had been allowed a buffer zone in Eastern Europe?

theprint.in

 

[BMD]

Taking Kiev was to force a surrender/aim for regime change/distract UAF... Not conquer.

Denazification, demilitarisation and taking away Russian speaking zones, ie, the south and Donbas, including Odessa, that's always been the objective.

The Russian speaking zones stretch from Kharkiv to Odessa.

So, for Ukraine, all the dark blue areas are the enemy.

A long term objective for Russia is to unify all the Russian-speaking areas in Europe. So, if the Russians succeed in Ukraine, there may even be a population exchange program.

Novorossiya:

Novorossiya will be an independent country and act as a buffer. Which means any NATO invasion on Russia will require becoming an aggressor when going through neutral buffer states. Plus, with the region largely supporting Russia, there's unlikely to be any major fear of an insurgency.

Taking Kharkiv means the front will reduce to just 450Km instead of 1300Km. It also cuts off NATO access to the Caucasus from the north. Crimea does the same from the west. And from the south, through Georgia, the mountains will make an invasion difficult. And, on top of that, the 450Km front along Ukraine will be difficult to man because Belarus and Dnipro puts Russian forces behind Chernihiv and Sumy, which means any NATO forces there can be encircled, making it unviable. To top that off, the Russians are pretty strong opposite Chernihiv and Sumy at Kursk and Bryansk.

They are not conquering anything, they are finding new ways to protect themselves better.

Not all Russian-speakers are pro-Russian regime, even in Russia, this should be very clear from how much Russia is struggling to take these areas. And by how Russian plants have started spontaneously combusting. And as regards this crap about having to go through buffer states first:

a) It's a fantastical load of bullshit that was never going to happen conjured up purely as a pretext;

b) It's factually incorrect - Latvia, Estonia and soon Finland, plus the part of Ukraine not in green; and

c) It's a well know fact that any attack on Russia would turn nuclear however it was done, hence why there's no direct engagement in Ukraine, what are you even suggesting here? That NATO would try and neutralise all Russia strike assets with a conventional land invasion, given the size of Russia? Can you imagine that debate in the UK House of Commons or US Congress?

Like I said before, anyone who even slightly believes this does not have a brain, not even a single cell.

They are not conquering anything, they are finding new ways to protect themselves better.

You've drawn this map and then said, "they're not conquering anything." Go take your head for a sh1t, seriously.

Now let me explain what this is really about.

Firstly, countries with outstanding territorial disputes cannot enter NATO. NATO tends not to accept countries with civil wars either. But then, neither does the EU. If Ukraine had chosen to join the EU and been accepted, suddenly Ukraine would have started outperforming Russia economically, which would have exposed Putin for the useless, corrupt, lying sh1te that he is, and made his people ask questions about his useless leadership. So he destabilised and destroyed Ukraine through border infiltrations so that it could never join the EU and never show him up for what he truly was.

Russian speakers get on just fine in the EU. The EU is also very strict about catering for different language groups, perhaps too much so, the amount of manuals that use 100 times more paper than they need to just to cater for every language is incredible, even non-European languages. So any language gripes would have been removed when Ukraine entered the EU anyway. And if Ukraine didn't join the EU, that would have been seen as a failure to deliver by its people and the government would have been voted out.

This is just a land grab plain and simple. It's not about defence, it has zero applicability to a nuclear war for reasons already mentioned, it's about protecting a dictator, not a country or a people. Putin destroyed a country and sent 25,000 Russians to their death to protect his own a55 and hide his incompetence. Unfortunately though, the war has only served to highlight his incompetence and a lot of corruption within Russia. And it will continue to do so indefinitely. It's just a shame that so many people have to die to force an old, bald guy to admit he is wrong.

 

[_Anonymous_]

 

[BMD]

Knew it was a lie. Says one thing, does another. Nobody could trust any agreement made with such a man.

Ukraine reports Russians trying to storm Mariupol plant

Russian forces in Ukraine tried to storm a steel plant housing soldiers and civilians in the southern city of Mariupol on Saturday in an attempt to crush the last pocket of resistance in a place of deep symbolic and strategic value to Moscow, Ukrainian officials said. Ukrainian President...

www.yahoo.com

 

[BMD]

I imagine 'Pretext Nazis' will be cropping up in Moldova and the Baltics soon.

 

[BMD]

 

[randomradio]

Not all Russian-speakers are pro-Russian regime, even in Russia, this should be very clear from how much Russia is struggling to take these areas. And by how Russian plants have started spontaneously combusting. And as regards this crap about having to go through buffer states first:

a) It's a fantastical load of bullshit that was never going to happen conjured up purely as a pretext;

b) It's factually incorrect - Latvia, Estonia and soon Finland, plus the part of Ukraine not in green; and

c) It's a well know fact that any attack on Russia would turn nuclear however it was done, hence why there's no direct engagement in Ukraine, what are you even suggesting here? That NATO would try and neutralise all Russia strike assets with a conventional land invasion, given the size of Russia? Can you imagine that debate in the UK House of Commons or US Congress?

Like I said before, anyone who even slightly believes this does not have a brain, not even a single cell.


You've drawn this map and then said, "they're not conquering anything." Go take your head for a sh1t, seriously.

Now let me explain what this is really about.

Firstly, countries with outstanding territorial disputes cannot enter NATO. NATO tends not to accept countries with civil wars either. But then, neither does the EU. If Ukraine had chosen to join the EU and been accepted, suddenly Ukraine would have started outperforming Russia economically, which would have exposed Putin for the useless, corrupt, lying sh1te that he is, and made his people ask questions about his useless leadership. So he destabilised and destroyed Ukraine through border infiltrations so that it could never join the EU and never show him up for what he truly was.

Russian speakers get on just fine in the EU. The EU is also very strict about catering for different language groups, perhaps too much so, the amount of manuals that use 100 times more paper than they need to just to cater for every language is incredible, even non-European languages. So any language gripes would have been removed when Ukraine entered the EU anyway. And if Ukraine didn't join the EU, that would have been seen as a failure to deliver by its people and the government would have been voted out.

This is just a land grab plain and simple. It's not about defence, it has zero applicability to a nuclear war for reasons already mentioned, it's about protecting a dictator, not a country or a people. Putin destroyed a country and sent 25,000 Russians to their death to protect his own a55 and hide his incompetence. Unfortunately though, the war has only served to highlight his incompetence and a lot of corruption within Russia. And it will continue to do so indefinitely. It's just a shame that so many people have to die to force an old, bald guy to admit he is wrong.

Spoken just like a sheep.

Nukes are for deterrence. Nukes are for destroying some types of static targets, not winning wars. In the end, you will still need to cut Moscow off from the Caucasus, and you will still need to surround Moscow and take it if you want to win a nuclear war. If all you can do is fire off nukes without following it up with an invasion, then what's destroyed will be rebuilt. Maybe you believe destroying London and a few other cities will mean the UK will cease to exist, but the US and Russia do not operate under those rules.

Ukraine's per capita is $14000. Russia's is $30000. Even with EU investment, Ukraine can't magically grow fast enough to catch up with Russia with a declining population. I'm not surprised that you fail at such basic use of logic and math.

At this time, Russian quality of life is only a little bit poorer than the West's. Their HDI is 0.824, which is very good. Only the advanced economies beat it, and Russia may at best need only 10 more years to more or less catch up to them. Ukraine at 0.77 will need to grow twice as fast for a decade to catch up to Russia's economy and HDI of today.

A value above 0.800 is classified as very high, between 0.700 and 0.799 as high, 0.550 to 0.699 as medium, and below 0.550 as low.

So neither your nuke argument nor your economy argument make sense.

As for the conquering part, they are not, they are simply taking back what they think is theirs, because they believe Russian people belong to Russia. Their justification is wonky, but they are basically saying they don't care much about non-Russian parts of Europe. They may make exception to areas of tactical importance, like the Baltics. But they are not gonna invade Poland or Moldova, unless NATO decides to fight back.

 

[_Anonymous_]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1517017385169006594

 

[_Anonymous_]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1516858541415575553

For all the yapping on democracy & democratic values distinguishing great western democracies presumably UK from totalitarian hellholes like Russia that Paddy's been subjecting us to & which he also harps on when it comes to the present war in Ukraine with " democratic " underdog Ukraine arraigned against mighty totalitarian Russia, the dividing line is very thin when it comes to dissent. In fact as multiple tweets posted here demonstrate it's non existent when it comes to a comparison between Russia & Ukraine.

 

[BMD]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1517730072920305665

 

[BMD]

Spoken just like a sheep.

Nukes are for deterrence. Nukes are for destroying some types of static targets, not winning wars. In the end, you will still need to cut Moscow off from the Caucasus, and you will still need to surround Moscow and take it if you want to win a nuclear war. If all you can do is fire off nukes without following it up with an invasion, then what's destroyed will be rebuilt. Maybe you believe destroying London and a few other cities will mean the UK will cease to exist, but the US and Russia do not operate under those rules.

Ukraine's per capita is $14000. Russia's is $30000. Even with EU investment, Ukraine can't magically grow fast enough to catch up with Russia with a declining population. I'm not surprised that you fail at such basic use of logic and math.

At this time, Russian quality of life is only a little bit poorer than the West's. Their HDI is 0.824, which is very good. Only the advanced economies beat it, and Russia may at best need only 10 more years to more or less catch up to them. Ukraine at 0.77 will need to grow twice as fast for a decade to catch up to Russia's economy and HDI of today.

A value above 0.800 is classified as very high, between 0.700 and 0.799 as high, 0.550 to 0.699 as medium, and below 0.550 as low.

So neither your nuke argument nor your economy argument make sense.

As for the conquering part, they are not, they are simply taking back what they think is theirs, because they believe Russian people belong to Russia. Their justification is wonky, but they are basically saying they don't care much about non-Russian parts of Europe. They may make exception to areas of tactical importance, like the Baltics. But they are not gonna invade Poland or Moldova, unless NATO decides to fight back.

Spoken like an elbow-licker. You're too invested in Russia to admit you are wrong even when you know it.

I can't believe the crap I'm reading. 2000+ nukes will end any country. You're talking about access to oil supplies like it will be something like WWII. One warhead per city and major base and there won't be anybody left to require oil in Russia, at least not significant quantities.

Who will it be rebuilt by? Some country folk up in Siberia? Surround Moscow? It will be a melted pile of radioactive rubble, as will any other significant population centres. Anyone left will have more pressing concerns like trying to find edible food and clean water than rebuilding cities.

Clearly it can. They've proven infinitely more resourceful than Russia in this war and other Eastern states joining the EU have grown faster than Russia, Russia is actually going backwards since 2014, and it is difficult to catch someone running backwards. Let us take Poland since it has a similar population - $40k/capita vs $29k/capita. Poland has only been in the EU about 12 years.

Poland - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Russia - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

It's not magical it's just sound economic management, minus corruption and a55-clownery.

Poland beats it on HDI too - 0.88 vs 0.824 - see links above.

A lot of Russian technology came from Ukraine originally anyway.

Clearly they do. I would also doubt any figures coming out of Russia where people steal taxpayer's money and use it for yachts instead of legitimate public spending.

Their justification is non-existent. Where were all Russians fleeing Ukraine to Russia? Remember when Myanmar cracked down on Rohingyas? How many of them fled? Russia is ethnically cleansing Ukraine, that's why the vast majority of countries voted to kick them off the UNHCR.

If NATO fights back, the only option Putin will have is nuclear weapons, because his conventional forces stink, his IADS plainly and simply doesn't work for sh1t, even against non-stealth, his tanks are biscuit tins and his air force is 50% Styrofoam and 10% yacht, as for his navy, I assume that's only there for the purpose of comedy. If I was Putin I'd even be questioning how many missiles I actually have, such is the level of corruption.

Oh they will invade Moldova, it's the Baltics they won't invade because that guarantees a NATO response. Or if they do, Russia will be annihilated and China will also get annihilated for not keeping their pet idiot on a tight-enough leash.

That said, they're struggling a lot with Ukraine, I don't see that ending any time soon.

 

[Innominate]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1517681600925941762

https://twitter.com/x/status/1517874325495455744

 

[_Anonymous_]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1517681600925941762

https://twitter.com/x/status/1517874325495455744

Must be genuine since the comedian's advisor is reporting it & US trailer park community sorry The Kyiv Independent has tweeted it .

 

[BMD]

Must be genuine since the comedian's advisor is reporting it & US trailer park community sorry The Kyiv Independent has tweeted it .

Some Indian respondents on this thread have shown themselves even more adept at perverting the truth and creating false narratives than any Islamic terrorist ever has. It was a very low bar, but you slithered under it. Congrats I guess.

Have they managed to put out that accidental fire on the Moskva yet? Surely they have, it didn't sound too serious from their reporting.

To continue believing a liar even after you've caught them lying requires a seriously demented bunch of dipshiits.

 

[BMD]

Not a scrap of decency or truth in the Putin regime.

 

[_Anonymous_]

Some Indian respondents on this thread have shown themselves even more adept at perverting the truth and creating false narratives than any Islamic terrorist ever has. It was a very low bar, but you slithered under it. Congrats I guess.

I recall having questioned you on the many videos & links you've attached here including one from last night purportedly describing the destruction of a Ka-52 hptr where there were no signs of an hptr & if there was it was virtually impossible to tell the make or the flag it sported. Yet the caption said that & you promptly linked it here declaring the same.

I even offered a 100 £ reward to you asking you to prove the same . Why didn't you pick up the gauntlet & prove me wrong? You still can.

Or is it your contention that your shit is perfumed while Russian shit reeks.

I myself think both sides are indulging in massive propaganda but since there are bans in place on Russian platforms given that all service providers are western, we're getting a totally 1 sided picture of the war where Western propaganda is being masked as news.

Finally I'm not here for your validation Paddy. Save it for those who seek it from you though which sane man would seek validation from the likes of you remains to be seen.

Have they managed to put out that accidental fire on the Moskva yet? Surely they have, it didn't sound too serious from their reporting.

Their contention is it sank in a storm. You've a problem with that, take it up with them. While you're at it, UK which prides itself on its "democratic" credentials & the foremost upholder of HR is threatening to prosecute one of it's own citizens on charges of "war crimes" which carry a maximum jail term of 7 yrs IIRC, for abetting in the torture of a Ukranian citizen & broadcasting an interview with him on what it calls participation in Russian propaganda.

I've just posted a link to the story by The Guardian earlier this evening. Go thru it & pen your views here.

Post in thread 'Ukraine - Russia Flare Up' Ukraine - Russia Flare Up

To continue believing a liar even after you've caught them lying requires a seriously demented bunch of dipshiits.

The Irish commenting on intelligence is like a who re commenting on the virtues of virginity. You don't get to talk on attributes you lack.

 

[_Anonymous_]

Looks like Putin is already indicating what's his next target after taking over Donbass. The Russians are a bit late in the prosecution of their campaign besides going about it in a clumsy & ham handed manner initially on which much ink has been wasted ,but they're sure making up for it by being clear of their aims , how will they do it & going about it with ruthless & callous efficiency irrespective of their losses which had UK or US suffered , the breast beating & demonstrations would've gained momentum by now .

Isn't it so Paddy & Sweetie , tweedledee & tweedledum of the forum ? @BMD ; @Innominate

 

[BMD]

What’s included in the 2nd U.S. $800 million military package for Ukraine?

President Biden announced on Thursday an additional colossal military aid package worth $800 million to help Ukraine bolster its military forces’ response to Russia’s new offensive in the Donbas region, bringing the total amount the U.S. has spent to help Ukraine with military assistance to more...

us.yahoo.com

What is included in the latest package?

The Pentagon said this second $800 million military aid package will include gear pulled from existing U.S. military stock. The package includes:

• 72 155 mm howitzers
• 72 tactical vehicles to tow the howitzers
• 144,000 artillery rounds
• 121 Phoenix Ghost drones

 

[BMD]

 

[BMD]

The occupiers again suffered heavy losses. At one point in the Donetsk region, our defenders went on the offensive and surrounded the enemy. As a result of two days of fighting, the enemy was neutralized.