Ukraine - Russia Conflict

Military casualties are claimed by the other side in general. But while the Ukrainians claim Russian casualties, the Russians keep quiet because internally they are not fighting a war but a special operation that cannot cause many deaths...
But I never brought up Russian sources or intent. This is mostly western media who're claiming & highlighting Ukranian civilian casualties . However , both western & Ukrainian sources are mum as far as the Ukrainian military casualties go .

In case of the Ukranians one can possibly understand their motivations . On the other hand western Media would like to have the world believe they're unbiased in their coverage of the conflict.
 
The west did not invade Ukraine. And in case you haven't noticed, the west, particularly the US has been taking about a Pacific pivot for about 15 years now. They did not want to have problems with Russia, and Russia had to work damn hard to cause them - annexed 3 parts of two sovereign democracies, murdered two dissidents, one with Polonium and one with Novichok, both a breach of the Geneva Convention and International Law in themselves, Putin's SAM shot down a passenger plane killing >200 EU citizens, and then completely invaded a European democracy....

....but the west caused all that didn't they? Even though it ran counter to expressed plans both in terms of the Pacific Pivot and EU energy policy.


As for you, you're now using random whataboutism to try make black and white into grey.


So which are you?
 
I have already explain that here:

More like the Russians are not fighting the way they have trained. All they are doing is standing outside cities and getting shot at. So commanding officers end up having to go forward to tell them what to do and boost morale. I believe even the Chechen general was complaining about it.

Otoh, the foreign volunteers seem to be getting the full Russian treatment.
 
Ukraine : L’Otan fait le pari de la guérilla (MàJ)

Ukraine: NATO bets on guerrilla warfare (Update)

The art of guerrilla warfare is firmly rooted in Ukrainian military culture. After the Second World War, the Soviet army, which had just triumphed over Hitler's Germany, had to fight until 1956 to definitively annihilate the groups of anti-communist partisans. Far from being derisory, the recent deliveries of Western light arms are precisely aimed at incapacitating the Russian system as part of a strategy of the weak to the strong. Moreover, in an interview given to the BBC the day after the start of the Russian offensive, General Adrian Bradshaw, the former SAS boss and former DSACEUR, declared "Sooner or later, Russians will discover in Ukraine that their Afghan nightmare was a tea party". What are the reasons for such confidence?

Anti-tank missiles

Last month, Washington sent Kiev more than 300 FGM-148 Javelin missiles with a range of 1.5 km used for the first time in Iraq against Russian T-72 tanks, which currently constitute the bulk of the armoured forces deployed in Ukraine. On 18 February, Estonia also delivered a "substantial number" of these missiles and 48 hours ago announced a new delivery, but without revealing the quantities. But it was Britain that made the most spectacular move in this area with the delivery in January of 2000 NLAW (Next Generation Light Anti-Tank Weapon) designed by the Swedish Saab-Bofors and produced by Thales UK. Although its range does not exceed 800m, it is mainly intended to be used in confined spaces either against armoured vehicles, other military vehicles or command centres. These weapons, which can be used by ordinary infantrymen, are particularly well suited to combat in urban areas. According to our information, France is studying the delivery of the new Enforcer portable missile already delivered to Germany, as well as the MMP (Medium Range Missile), which succeeded the Milan. Combined with Novadem's NX70 micro-drone, the MMP allows an operator to exploit the 5000m range of the missile without ever revealing its position. However, the MMP can also be used for naval guerrilla operations, as an integrated firing post on the light boats made by Zodiac was presented at the Euronaval 2018 show. In addition to these deliveries, there are also the 1400 Panzerfaust 3 anti-tank rockets that Berlin and The Hague decided to deliver on Saturday. But everyone is waiting for the decision of Ankara, which is also closely linked to Kiev on arms programmes, for the supply of new Bayraktar TB-2 armed drones, known for having destroyed several Russian Pantsir or Repellent anti-aircraft vehicles in Libya, Syria and Armenia. These drones have succeeded in neutralising at least two columns of Russian vehicles near Dombass and Kharkiv in recent days. According to a statement by Ukrainian Defence Minister Alexei Reznikov, new TB2s are about to arrive, probably via Poland. In fact, the Flightradar24 website shows that Ukrainian Antonov 124 cargo planes are regularly flying to and from Turkish military bases.

Manpads

In recent years, man-portable anti-aircraft missiles, or Manpads, have been the main threat to air forces deployed in foreign theatres. The most famous of these is the US Stinger missile, which was publicised during the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan and has since been upgraded several times. In 2018, the Ukrainian ambassador to the United States, Valeriy Chaly, officially requested the acquisition of several thousand of these missiles for a sum of $750 million. Kiev hoped to use them to build up a highly dissuasive arsenal against Moscow. But this request remained, at least officially, a dead letter. However, the situation could change very quickly, since this weekend the White House asked Congress to release $6.4 billion in aid, more than half of which would be for military equipment. While Latvia and Lithuania have already sent Kiev a few dozen Stingers in recent weeks, Germany and the Netherlands have decided to take nearly 700 from their stocks to send them urgently. France is also considering the possibility of delivering its Mistral missiles, and Great Britain its STARStreak. Although the latter, produced by Thales, has not enjoyed the same export success as the Mistral or the Stinger, it does have the advantage, thanks to its laser guidance, of resisting the infrared or electromagnetic countermeasures deployed on most Russian aircraft, several hundred of which are currently involved in the theatre of operations. It seems that it is this missile that has succeeded in keeping in check the very recent Vitebsk-BM self-protection suite of the KRET group, deployed on the Su-25, Mi-24 and Ka-52 aircraft that are now regularly destroyed in flight.

Special Forces

The superiority of Russian conventional forces is overwhelming, but far from being negligible, these weapons could prove to be disruptive to the outcome of the conflict. During the first Gulf War in 1991, the coalition dropped on Iraq a quantity of aerial bombs more than five times equivalent to all those used during the second world war, but more than 80% of the Scud missiles that constituted the main threat were in fact destroyed by elite commandos, such as the SAS, equipped with simple Milan missiles. Finally, let us also recall that the delivery of Stinger missiles through Operation Cyclone precipitated the defeat of the Russians in Afghanistan from 1986 onwards by impacting their counter-guerrilla air capabilities (between 1500 and 2000 units delivered). If, like the Afghans, the Ukrainians have seasoned volunteers, they have special forces trained for several years by the Americans in Western procedures, and have more than 4000 "Spetsnaz" who have inherited the whole culture of their Russian counterparts. Following the annexation of Crimea, the CIA initiated a training programme in 2015 through its "Ground Department". Contrary to the training provided by the American SOCOM (Special Operations Command) or its NATO counterparts, the American headquarters prepared the SBU's Alfa group to deal with a Russian invasion by using counter-interference techniques, neutralising HVTs (High Valuable Targets), or building "Stay Behind" type networks, without forgetting the deployment last January of several cyber experts dedicated to the Fight against Computer Attacks (LIO). If France remains more discreet about the involvement of the COS and especially of the 13th RDP, which had developed real expertise during the Cold War to infiltrate behind Soviet lines, one should nevertheless note the ease with which the GIGN managed to reach the French embassy while all roads were saturated by the flow of refugees and the airspace was held by the Russian air force. Canada, on the other hand, has officially acknowledged having deployed more than 200 instructors since 2014, renewed every six months, and especially since January a contingent of the Special Operations Regiment. A unit composed of 3 companies dedicated to "direct actions" and not to training...

Finally, for the past few weeks, more than a hundred British SAS and SBS have also been deployed to train the Ukrainians in advanced techniques of sniping, ambush, vulnerability analysis and sabotage. Thus, in addition to the support provided by the Baltic, Polish and Georgian special forces, to which several Israeli instructors from Odessa and Kiev have been added, the Ukrainians seem to be prepared to carry out strategic operations with tactical means, but also to thwart those of their adversaries. A device that seeks not only to complicate Moscow's military objectives to seize the centres of political and military decision-making concentrated in Kiev, but above all to precipitate the Russian forces into the trap of stalemate via an unconventional war, with means that are far more consequential than those waged by the Taliban or the jihadists of the Sahel-Saharan strip. A device trained since 2014 by several members of Nato within the military base of Yaroviv, 10 km from the Ukrainian border, and bombed on 13 March by Russian TU-95MS bombers. The question now is how Moscow will get around this stumbling block, especially as its army no longer has the means to deploy the 700,000 men needed to control a territory the size of France, and the use of terror seems to be ruled out because of the links between many Russian and Ukrainian families.
 
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  • The Russian navy is reportedly bombing the coast south of Odessa.
  • Russia announced that it had repelled a counter-offensive on the Dnieper at the Kakhovka hydroelectric plant - a little to the north-east - of Kherson. A counter-offensive is also reported to have taken place in the direction of Kherson.
  • Russian reinforcements are said to have been brought in from Ossetia.
  • 3000 people are said to have left Mariupol for Zaporizhiye last night.
  • The fighting is at the gates of Lysychansk/Severodonetsk, on three axes. The city commands from the east the road to Sloviansk and then Kramatorsk
 
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More like the Russians are not fighting the way they have trained. All they are doing is standing outside cities and getting shot at. So commanding officers end up having to go forward to tell them what to do and boost morale. I believe even the Chechen general was complaining about it.

Otoh, the foreign volunteers seem to be getting the full Russian treatment.

Yup, Look at this video, captured Ukrainian pilot getting medical treatment and also offered food and phone call to Mom:

 
Ukraine : L’Otan fait le pari de la guérilla (MàJ)

Ukraine: NATO bets on guerrilla warfare (Update)

The art of guerrilla warfare is firmly rooted in Ukrainian military culture. After the Second World War, the Soviet army, which had just triumphed over Hitler's Germany, had to fight until 1956 to definitively annihilate the groups of anti-communist partisans. Far from being derisory, the recent deliveries of Western light arms are precisely aimed at incapacitating the Russian system as part of a strategy of the weak to the strong. Moreover, in an interview given to the BBC the day after the start of the Russian offensive, General Adrian Bradshaw, the former SAS boss and former DSACEUR, declared "Sooner or later, Russians will discover in Ukraine that their Afghan nightmare was a tea party". What are the reasons for such confidence?

Anti-tank missiles

Last month, Washington sent Kiev more than 300 FGM-148 Javelin missiles with a range of 1.5 km used for the first time in Iraq against Russian T-72 tanks, which currently constitute the bulk of the armoured forces deployed in Ukraine. On 18 February, Estonia also delivered a "substantial number" of these missiles and 48 hours ago announced a new delivery, but without revealing the quantities. But it was Britain that made the most spectacular move in this area with the delivery in January of 2000 NLAW (Next Generation Light Anti-Tank Weapon) designed by the Swedish Saab-Bofors and produced by Thales UK. Although its range does not exceed 800m, it is mainly intended to be used in confined spaces either against armoured vehicles, other military vehicles or command centres. These weapons, which can be used by ordinary infantrymen, are particularly well suited to combat in urban areas. According to our information, France is studying the delivery of the new Enforcer portable missile already delivered to Germany, as well as the MMP (Medium Range Missile), which succeeded the Milan. Combined with Novadem's NX70 micro-drone, the MMP allows an operator to exploit the 5000m range of the missile without ever revealing its position. However, the MMP can also be used for naval guerrilla operations, as an integrated firing post on the light boats made by Zodiac was presented at the Euronaval 2018 show. In addition to these deliveries, there are also the 1400 Panzerfaust 3 anti-tank rockets that Berlin and The Hague decided to deliver on Saturday. But everyone is waiting for the decision of Ankara, which is also closely linked to Kiev on arms programmes, for the supply of new Bayraktar TB-2 armed drones, known for having destroyed several Russian Pantsir or Repellent anti-aircraft vehicles in Libya, Syria and Armenia. These drones have succeeded in neutralising at least two columns of Russian vehicles near Dombass and Kharkiv in recent days. According to a statement by Ukrainian Defence Minister Alexei Reznikov, new TB2s are about to arrive, probably via Poland. In fact, the Flightradar24 website shows that Ukrainian Antonov 124 cargo planes are regularly flying to and from Turkish military bases.

Manpads

In recent years, man-portable anti-aircraft missiles, or Manpads, have been the main threat to air forces deployed in foreign theatres. The most famous of these is the US Stinger missile, which was publicised during the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan and has since been upgraded several times. In 2018, the Ukrainian ambassador to the United States, Valeriy Chaly, officially requested the acquisition of several thousand of these missiles for a sum of $750 million. Kiev hoped to use them to build up a highly dissuasive arsenal against Moscow. But this request remained, at least officially, a dead letter. However, the situation could change very quickly, since this weekend the White House asked Congress to release $6.4 billion in aid, more than half of which would be for military equipment. While Latvia and Lithuania have already sent Kiev a few dozen Stingers in recent weeks, Germany and the Netherlands have decided to take nearly 700 from their stocks to send them urgently. France is also considering the possibility of delivering its Mistral missiles, and Great Britain its STARStreak. Although the latter, produced by Thales, has not enjoyed the same export success as the Mistral or the Stinger, it does have the advantage, thanks to its laser guidance, of resisting the infrared or electromagnetic countermeasures deployed on most Russian aircraft, several hundred of which are currently involved in the theatre of operations. It seems that it is this missile that has succeeded in keeping in check the very recent Vitebsk-BM self-protection suite of the KRET group, deployed on the Su-25, Mi-24 and Ka-52 aircraft that are now regularly destroyed in flight.

Special Forces

The superiority of Russian conventional forces is overwhelming, but far from being negligible, these weapons could prove to be disruptive to the outcome of the conflict. During the first Gulf War in 1991, the coalition dropped on Iraq a quantity of aerial bombs more than five times equivalent to all those used during the second world war, but more than 80% of the Scud missiles that constituted the main threat were in fact destroyed by elite commandos, such as the SAS, equipped with simple Milan missiles. Finally, let us also recall that the delivery of Stinger missiles through Operation Cyclone precipitated the defeat of the Russians in Afghanistan from 1986 onwards by impacting their counter-guerrilla air capabilities (between 1500 and 2000 units delivered). If, like the Afghans, the Ukrainians have seasoned volunteers, they have special forces trained for several years by the Americans in Western procedures, and have more than 4000 "Spetsnaz" who have inherited the whole culture of their Russian counterparts. Following the annexation of Crimea, the CIA initiated a training programme in 2015 through its "Ground Department". Contrary to the training provided by the American SOCOM (Special Operations Command) or its NATO counterparts, the American headquarters prepared the SBU's Alfa group to deal with a Russian invasion by using counter-interference techniques, neutralising HVTs (High Valuable Targets), or building "Stay Behind" type networks, without forgetting the deployment last January of several cyber experts dedicated to the Fight against Computer Attacks (LIO). If France remains more discreet about the involvement of the COS and especially of the 13th RDP, which had developed real expertise during the Cold War to infiltrate behind Soviet lines, one should nevertheless note the ease with which the GIGN managed to reach the French embassy while all roads were saturated by the flow of refugees and the airspace was held by the Russian air force. Canada, on the other hand, has officially acknowledged having deployed more than 200 instructors since 2014, renewed every six months, and especially since January a contingent of the Special Operations Regiment. A unit composed of 3 companies dedicated to "direct actions" and not to training...

Finally, for the past few weeks, more than a hundred British SAS and SBS have also been deployed to train the Ukrainians in advanced techniques of sniping, ambush, vulnerability analysis and sabotage. Thus, in addition to the support provided by the Baltic, Polish and Georgian special forces, to which several Israeli instructors from Odessa and Kiev have been added, the Ukrainians seem to be prepared to carry out strategic operations with tactical means, but also to thwart those of their adversaries. A device that seeks not only to complicate Moscow's military objectives to seize the centres of political and military decision-making concentrated in Kiev, but above all to precipitate the Russian forces into the trap of stalemate via an unconventional war, with means that are far more consequential than those waged by the Taliban or the jihadists of the Sahel-Saharan strip. A device trained since 2014 by several members of Nato within the military base of Yaroviv, 10 km from the Ukrainian border, and bombed on 13 March by Russian TU-95MS bombers. The question now is how Moscow will get around this stumbling block, especially as its army no longer has the means to deploy the 700,000 men needed to control a territory the size of France, and the use of terror seems to be ruled out because of the links between many Russian and Ukrainian families.

The article seems to be considering Russia plans to take control over all of Ukraine. I'm more inclined to believe there will be a partition of Ukraine. Insurgencies won't work in areas where the population doesn't mind Russian presence.

ukraine_map_region_language.jpg


2007 elections:
Ukrainian_parliamentary_election%2C_2007_%28first_place_results%29.PNG


2010:
ukraine.jpg


A lot of what Russia has taken is Russia-friendly.
 
The article seems to be considering Russia plans to take control over all of Ukraine. I'm more inclined to believe there will be a partition of Ukraine. Insurgencies won't work in areas where the population doesn't mind Russian presence.

ukraine_map_region_language.jpg


2007 elections:
Ukrainian_parliamentary_election%2C_2007_%28first_place_results%29.PNG


2010:
ukraine.jpg


A lot of what Russia has taken is Russia-friendly.
He hasn't taken all the areas you've shown. You're vastly overestimating the support for Russia in Ukraine. Like I said earlier, this war would have lasted only a few days if Russia had as much support as you imagine. I also don't believe what you've shown are the limits of his plans, since they don't really solve most of Putin's concerns as regards NATO and the EU on his border.
 
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Insurgency in Ukraine will not be similar to insurgency in Afghanistan. It will be much weaker and on smaller scale.

In Afghanistan , everyone attacked the branches and gave water and fertilizers to the roots. This won't happen in Ukraine.
 
Insurgency in Ukraine will not be similar to insurgency in Afghanistan. It will be much weaker and on smaller scale.

In Afghanistan , everyone attacked the branches and gave water and fertilizers to the roots. This won't happen in Ukraine.


@randomradio you're dreaming if you think Russia is going to capture any territory without there being an insurgency. The only difference is that it won't be Pakistani special forces supporting it, nor will AK-47s and RPG-7s be its foundation. And it will continue for as long as Russia is stupid enough to commit forces to Ukraine.

Equally, it is ridiculous to think the insurgency will be weak. The Ukrainians have demonstrated a capability in symmetrical warfare that is orders of magnitude greater than the Taliban managed, and done so against an enemy that attacked them from land borders extending around half the perimeter of their country. The Taliban had no capacity to take on such a force head-on. The only sensible conclusion is that the Ukrainian insurgency, in the event that Russia succeeds, will also be orders of magnitude greater. Russia will be transporting men home in body bags and haemorrhaging cash for decades if they are dumb enough.
 
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Would have been well received outside the West had Zelensky emptied out the cities full of civilians. You know something's wrong when the invader is requesting for exit corridors for 'enemy' citizens and the defenders are not allowing that to happen.

He hasn't taken all the areas you've shown.

Of course not. It's only Day 22. And the main offensive is being conducted on the diplomacy table rather than on the ground.

You're vastly overestimating the support for Russia in Ukraine. Like I said earlier, this war would have lasted only a few days if Russia had as much support as you imagine.

You are assuming it was up to a vote. It's not. The ruling govt makes the decisions, and Zelensky has made the decision to fight. Public support is irrelevant to the argument you are making.

The Russians went in with the hopes that Zelensky will surrender in a day or two. Zelensky went in thinking he will get NATO support, but got tricked in the end. He's still requesting for NATO assistance even today, with lame propaganda videos. So both have failed in their immediate objectives.

I also don't believe what you've shown are the limits of his plans, since they don't really solve most of Putin's concerns as regards NATO and the EU on his border.

Putin has no need to occupy Ukraine though. Plus his main goal is creating a buffer state between NATO and Russia.

He might go for a softer approach if Ukraine surrenders and accepts to the many terms relevant to Russian security. But he may go for as much control as possible based on the extent of Russian troop presence at the end of the war to create the buffer zone if Zelensky doesn't surrender. So even if the rest of Ukraine joins the EU and NATO eventually, Russia will still get a large buffer zone.

Now the question is how dangerous the Russians are going to get if negotiations fail.
 

@randomradio you're dreaming if you think Russia is going to capture any territory without there being an insurgency. The only difference is that it won't be Pakistani special forces supporting it, nor will AK-47s and RPG-7s be its foundation. And it will continue for as long as Russia is stupid enough to commit forces to Ukraine.
Insurgencies always have an external source to fund & arm it apart from providing a base for operations in most situations. Pls read up & educate yourself on insurgencies in the last century .

Moreover , the western rim of Ukraine are choc a bloc with countries who're more than willing to play that role under the blanket of security that NATO provides. This in turn gives Russia the excuse to foment it's own brand of insurgency & counter insurgency in these territories including Ukraine.

The last thing NATO or EU needs is the tail wagging the dog which's exactly the situation out there .

All this doesn't bode well for the stabilty & security in Europe particularly Eastern Europe.
 

@randomradio you're dreaming if you think Russia is going to capture any territory without there being an insurgency. The only difference is that it won't be Pakistani special forces supporting it, nor will AK-47s and RPG-7s be its foundation. And it will continue for as long as Russia is stupid enough to commit forces to Ukraine.

You should read up on Jammu and Kashmir and how insurgency is mainly in the Muslim dominated valley (96%) and not the Hindu dominated regions (66%). You need to be in enemy territory for an insurgency to work, like it was the case with Britain in America back in the 18th century.
 
Would have been well received outside the West had Zelensky emptied out the cities full of civilians. You know something's wrong when the invader is requesting for exit corridors for 'enemy' citizens and the defenders are not allowing that to happen.
They kept getting attacked when they tried fleeing. There are videos of fleeing civilians being hit by artillery.

Of course not. It's only Day 22. And the main offensive is being conducted on the diplomacy table rather than on the ground.
Yeah, sure.


That's quite a back down in the last 24 hours.

You are assuming it was up to a vote. It's not. The ruling govt makes the decisions, and Zelensky has made the decision to fight. Public support is irrelevant to the argument you are making.

The Russians went in with the hopes that Zelensky will surrender in a day or two. Zelensky went in thinking he will get NATO support, but got tricked in the end. He's still requesting for NATO assistance even today, with lame propaganda videos. So both have failed in their immediate objectives.
Not as many fighters would be willing to repel the Russians if what you have been told is true by RT was actually true.

Putin has no need to occupy Ukraine though. Plus his main goal is creating a buffer state between NATO and Russia.
Which would not be achieved by the areas you show. And they are too narrow to have any value as regards missile defence concerns. Nor will it shield border Russians from how well the rest of Ukraine is doing in the EU.

He might go for a softer approach if Ukraine surrenders and accepts to the many terms relevant to Russian security. But he may go for as much control as possible based on the extent of Russian troop presence at the end of the war to create the buffer zone if Zelensky doesn't surrender. So even if the rest of Ukraine joins the EU and NATO eventually, Russia will still get a large buffer zone.

Now the question is how dangerous the Russians are going to get if negotiations fail.
The question is how many troops and much equipment and cash they are going to lose if they don't get their stupid a55es out of there.
 
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Dr Jaishankar on US & European perception of Russia at a convention 3 yrs ago. If you think this is prescient, S.S.Menon our former FS & NSA had pretty similar views on the issue in an interview with him a few weeks back. So in a way, the Indian foreign policy establishment isn't surprised by this. Further evidence that the US was acting in bad faith all along with their stooges in Europe principally UK ( but if course) backing the US & the E European countries now part of NATO, egging the US on.
 
They kept getting attacked when they tried fleeing. There are videos of fleeing civilians being hit by artillery.


Yeah, sure.


That's quite a back down in the last 24 hours.


Not as many fighters would be willing to repel the Russians if what you have been told is true by RT was actually true.


Which would not be achieved by the areas you show. And they are too narrow to have any value as regards missile defence concerns. Nor will it shield border Russians from how well the rest of Ukraine is doing in the EU.


The question is how many troops and much equipment and cash they are going to lose if they don't get their stupid a55es out of there.
The sht show for Russia has barely started. It looks like they are stupidly going to make a move on Odessa which is a fortress right now not to mention the hundreds of miles of tunnels underneath.

I can see the excuses by the boobs in here saying they were going soft on Odessa for civilians sake.

Russia thought they could walk into hell and defeat it now they want mediator to get them out without looking like they got their a$$es handed to them.
 
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