Ukraine - Russia Conflict

Here's why Russia really wants Donbass and Crimea. Nazis, genocides, tank invasions, MRBMs and ABMs are all red herrings. Ukraine has enough oil and gas to make the EU independent of Russia. Putin could never allow that, hence all the pretexts, and western conspiracy mongering.

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Too bad Paddy. You can kiss all this oil goodbye now . Had you been prompt enough & timed this well , you'd have Ukraine in the EU , with you out & in NATO too while Royal Dutch Shell would've had a ball.

Now you & them can twiddle each other's thumbs , play pocket table tennis in the North Sea & gorge on haddocks.
 
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Et si un échec de Vladimir Poutine en Ukraine pouvait être pire qu'une victoire ?

What if a failure by Vladimir Putin in Ukraine could be worse than a victory?

In France, the army is also worried that a failure by Vladimir Putin would make him even more unpredictable and therefore dangerous. The Russian president might have to use "other means", including the use of illegal weapons.

Whether Vladimir Putin wins "his" war in Ukraine or gets bogged down in it, or even loses it, the Western world may remain at the mercy of the Russian president's unpredictability and dangerousness for a long time to come. In France, the army is also worried about the second option. In particular, it fears that a "risk of humiliation" of Vladimir Putin will make him even more unpredictable and dangerous. And it anticipates this factor in its defensive posture strategy. "How will he react? Will he go as far as a vertical escalation (to a nuclear conflict, editor's note)? We don't rule it out," explains a general officer. "In any case, we must not exclude any possibility," confirmed the Elysée.

"The main concern is that failure is probably dangerous for Vladimir Putin. But his failure would also be dangerous for everyone. That's what's freaking everyone out," said another general officer.

In a letter addressed to the general officers, the Chief of Staff of the Armed Forces says no different. General Thierry Burkhard believes that Vladimir Putin is "in a strategic situation that he had probably not anticipated. While the special operation was supposed to show Russia's strength, the opposite is happening. This makes Vladimir Putin all the more unpredictable.

Unpredictable but how?

Vladimir Putin "did what he had always said he would do, but it was misunderstood," said one of the general officers interviewed by La Tribune. "He has already shown how dangerous his decisions can be", according to the Elysée Palace. What will Vladimir Putin do to get what he has always wanted? "The main risk, which makes everyone think, is that Vladimir Putin, condemned to succeed and unable to back down, will use other means if he does not succeed with the means already implemented", underlines one of the general officers.

"In the worst case, there is certainly the use of illicit weapons. There are certainly other scenarios that can be both the destruction of cities and even greater violence against civilians. And the worst case scenario cannot be described," the Elysée said.

What other means? From hybrid warfare (submarine cables, cyber, space...) to nuclear warfare via the use of chemical weapons, Vladimir Putin's possibilities are numerous and hardly encouraging. "We must take all our measures, both defensively and offensively - the sanctions, in other words - to prevent these risks," the Elysée Palace said. The final word goes to General Burkhard: "In this extremely dangerous period, marked by great tension, we must show increased vigilance in order to face any new threat. Anything can happen and we have to be ready for it.

Michel Cabirol

It was in everybody's interest to see Russia wrapping up the war in just the first day or two. This idea of prolonging the war to bog down Russia was a very stupid decision.

The worst case for Europe is Ukraine has pretty much been lost to Russia. And Russia would end up plugging its many holes in its military force, something that never should have come out to the fore. And Ukraine's war crimes along with Russia's restrait has won Russia a lot of brownie points all across the world.

Overall, this war is only going to benefit China and the US, not Europe.

Now let's see what's going to happen to all the Western weapons in Ukraine's hands.
 
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Show us the body. Last I heard the 4th Russian general and 7 spec ops members were sniped dead at Mauripol. This is like the second time they've claimed to have killed this guy. They literally don't hold the ground where he's likely to be. It's complete BS.

In 10 years they'll make a film about this - Imbecile at the Gates.*

*I was going to go with Jo Jo Putin.
 
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@A Person @Picdelamirand-oil


Just wow...
 
The worst case for Europe is Ukraine has pretty much been lost to Russia. And Russia would end up plugging its many holes in its military force, something that never should have come out to the fore. And Ukraine's war crimes along with Russia's restrait has won Russia a lot of brownie points all across the world.
How's the weather up your f*cking ar5e?

You must be plugged into RT 24/7 or something. There are exactly zero brownie points for Russia here. Putin is seen as the war criminal for bombarding cities with unguided area strikes. And Putin started this war. There's only some people in India, China, Belarus and Russia who believe what you've just said.
Just wow...
I think it's a wrong move by Lithuania but it serves to demonstrate just how strongly people feel about this.
 
It was in everybody's interest to see Russia wrapping up the war in just the first day or two. This idea of prolonging the war to bog down Russia was a very stupid decision.

The worst case for Europe is Ukraine has pretty much been lost to Russia. And Russia would end up plugging its many holes in its military force, something that never should have come out to the fore. And Ukraine's war crimes along with Russia's restrait has won Russia a lot of brownie points all across the world.

Overall, this war is only going to benefit China and the US, not Europe.

Now let's see what's going to happen to all the Western weapons in Ukraine's hands.
The latest French assessment of the war in Ukraine is that the probability of a Russian defeat is greater than the probability of a victory. Defeat meaning a catastrophic evolution of the fighting involving a Russian withdrawal and victory meaning the achievement by war or negotiation of Putin's stated objectives at the beginning of the war.
 
The latest French assessment of the war in Ukraine is that the probability of a Russian defeat is greater than the probability of a victory. Defeat meaning a catastrophic evolution of the fighting involving a Russian withdrawal and victory meaning the achievement by war or negotiation of Putin's stated objectives at the beginning of the war.

The way they are fighting today, yes. But if they bring to bear all their capabilities, then no. If you haven't noticed already, Ukraine is still functioning as a country even after 3 weeks of fighting. A real war would have seen the complete destruction of Ukraine's civilian infrastructure within the first 2-3 days.

The Russian objective from the very beginning has been to minimise casualties and get the OPFOR to surrender. Escalation will get them nothing but a perpetual enemy and a bad name amongst countries that matter to Russia, like India and China.

You can say that a war is being fought because Zelensky isn't a seasoned politician. If he was, he would have recognised the West's duplicity long ago. He wouldn't be stupidly asking for a no-fly zone or NATO involvement this deep into the war. But to more seasoned minds, he has been looking like a sociopathic fool since the beginning.
 
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Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said the two sides were “close to an agreement,” while Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky said Russia’s demands were becoming “more realistic.”
The way they are fighting today, yes. But if they bring to bear all their capabilities, then no. If you haven't noticed already, Ukraine is still functioning as a country even after 3 weeks of fighting. A real war would have seen the complete destruction of Ukraine's civilian infrastructure within the first 2-3 days.

The Russian objective from the very beginning has been to minimise casualties and get the OPFOR to surrender. Escalation will get them nothing but a perpetual enemy and a bad name amongst countries that matter to Russia, like India and China.

You can say that a war is being fought because Zelensky isn't a seasoned politician. If he was, he would have recognised the West's duplicity long ago. He wouldn't be stupidly asking for a no-fly zone or NATO involvement this deep into the war. But to more seasoned minds, he has been looking like a sociopathic fool since the beginning.
That's what people in NATO thought too, but there were wrong. There is a cost to committing more assets to Ukraine, it costs both in terms of money and lives and creates vulnerabilities elsewhere. Russia is struggling to finance this war.

Interestingly this is the problem the US first encountered in Vietnam. You can't just go in and start levelling cities without provoking wider condemnation and there are probably limits to what neighbours will accept in that regard. NATO do not want to get involved but there may be some kind of limit.

Disagree. His country has been invaded by a pseudo-dictatorship. He's doing what any leader would. He may be unseasoned due to being relatively new to politics but it's difficult to fault his actions.

This is just another attempt by Putin to reverse the collapse of Soviet Union, hide its economic inadequacies and maintain its hold over the European oil and gas markets, same as Syria was. It has nothing to do with Nazis, genocides, INFs, ABMs or extremely hypothetical tank invasions.
 
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Two Ukrainian Su-25 were shot down by Russia, one was caught live on video:

The fireball from the crashed plane is spread along the horizontal. The other fireball is vertical, which indicates a bomb, probably hitting a fuel depot given the fireball.
 
That's what people in NATO thought too, but there were wrong. There is a cost to committing more assets to Ukraine, it costs both in terms of money and lives and creates vulnerabilities elsewhere. Russia is struggling to finance this war.

Russia has a war chest through years of surplus. Russia is not the UK, they actually have money to spend.

Interestingly this is the problem the US first encountered in Vietnam. You can't just go in and start levelling cities without provoking wider condemnation and there are probably limits to what neighbours will accept in that regard. NATO do not want to get involved but there may be some kind of limit.

Depends on the objective.

Disagree. His country has been invaded by a pseudo-dictatorship. He's doing what any leader would. He may be unseasoned due to being relatively new to politics but it's difficult to fault his actions.

A seasoned politician would have found other ways to deal with the threat. Russia never had any intentions of invading Ukraine. The political situation had changed a lot ever since Zelensky got misled to the point of no return. He was still expecting NATO tanks to come thundering up the steppe until a few days ago. What's happening in Ukraine is what typically happens when amateurs are given the hot seat during a crisis situation.

Zelensky should be judged a war criminal for holding civilians hostage and placing weapons in and around civilian areas, including hospitals and schools.

This is just another attempt by Putin to reverse the collapse of Soviet Union, hide its economic inadequacies and maintain its hold over the European oil and gas markets, same as Syria was. It has nothing to do with Nazis, genocides, INFs, ABMs or extremely hypothetical tank invasions.

The Azov battalion exists, they are neo-Nazis. That the Russian majority regions have been disenfranchised and have been at war with Ukraine since the last 8 years is also a fact. NATO has more than enough firepower to invade Russia even today, let alone what can be done within a year. The Russian military is both numerically and technologically outmatched by NATO. You are trying to stroke a complex canvas with a very broad brush, which the British have been well known for doing throughout history.
 
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The way they are fighting today, yes. But if they bring to bear all their capabilities, then no. If you haven't noticed already, Ukraine is still functioning as a country even after 3 weeks of fighting. A real war would have seen the complete destruction of Ukraine's civilian infrastructure within the first 2-3 days.
See, that's the thing.

What, besides the Ukrainian's unexpected reluctance to get folded back into the Russian world, is the Russian army's main problem in its Ukrainian campaign right now?

Logistics. Their logistics suck. The reasons are well known, with corruption and incompetence, but mostly it's due to a difficult terrain. Everyone by now has learned the lovely word "rasputitsa"... Note how, in the South, where the soil is firmer, they have been able to advance a lot more.

Now picture in the result of applying "complete destruction of civilian infrastructure" as a solution when the problem is "terrible logistics".


But there's another thing. This was supposed to be a quick war of conquest. Come in, kill the leadership, gobble up all of Eastern and Southern Ukraine so as to link with Transnistria (and perhaps gobble up Moldavia too, if things have gone well so far, why stop?), and leave behind at most a rump state centered around Lviv where you can expel all the malcontents. If you destroy stuff that you conquer, then you have to rebuild it. That shit's expensive, and you've got no money -- Putin knew that the economic war and sanctions would intensify after he made his move, so his plan also required to limit the damage so as to limit the reparation bill.

Destroying Ukraine fully would also mean that either he gets an unproductive drain on his resources until he can get it rebuilt; or he has to forget about annexing the best parts because there are no best parts anymore; he can abandon the mess he has created but that will not let him achieve the goals he had set for himself. It's at best damage control (as in, control through damage), but not actual control.

You can say that a war is being fought because Zelensky isn't a seasoned politician. If he was, he would have recognised the West's duplicity long ago. He wouldn't be stupidly asking for a no-fly zone or NATO involvement this deep into the war. But to more seasoned minds, he has been looking like a sociopathic fool since the beginning.
Zelensky is trying to escalate the conflict because getting NATO in the fray seems like the best way to get Russia to back down. However, MAD still works. America is not willing to fight Russia directly; just like Russia is not willing to fight America directly. The key to great power warfare is to go through proxies, it's how it's been fought in Korea and Vietnam (with the USSR and China providing not-that-discreet support to the proxy that was fighting America) and how it's been fought in Afghanistan (with America providing not-that-discreet support to the proxy that was fighting the USSR).

This is a song and dance we've had before. People who advocate for Zelensky to back down and surrender would have asked the same of Ho Chi Minh and Kim Il-Sung and Ahmad Shah Massoud...

It certainly sucks when you get to be the proxy. Why do you think France wanted to have its own independent nuclear deterrence?
The way they are fighting today, yes. But if they bring to bear all their capabilities, then no. If you haven't noticed already, Ukraine is still functioning as a country even after 3 weeks of fighting. A real war would have seen the complete destruction of Ukraine's civilian infrastructure within the first 2-3 days.
See, that's the thing.

What, besides the Ukrainian's unexpected reluctance to get folded back into the Russian world, is the Russian army's main problem in its Ukrainian campaign right now?

Logistics. Their logistics suck. The reasons are well known, with corruption and incompetence, but mostly it's due to a difficult terrain. Everyone by now has learned the lovely word "rasputitsa"... Note how, in the South, where the soil is firmer, they have been able to advance a lot more.

Now picture in the result of applying "complete destruction of civilian infrastructure" as a solution when the problem is "terrible logistics".


But there's another thing. This was supposed to be a quick war of conquest. Come in, kill the leadership, gobble up all of Eastern and Southern Ukraine so as to link with Transnistria (and perhaps gobble up Moldavia too, if things have gone well so far, why stop?), and leave behind at most a rump state centered around Lviv where you can expel all the malcontents. If you destroy stuff that you conquer, then you have to rebuild it. That shit's expensive, and you've got no money -- Putin knew that the economic war and sanctions would intensify after he made his move, so his plan also required to limit the damage so as to limit the reparation bill.

Destroying Ukraine fully would also mean that either he gets an unproductive drain on his resources until he can get it rebuilt; or he has to forget about annexing the best parts because there are no best parts anymore; he can abandon the mess he has created but that will not let him achieve the goals he had set for himself. It's at best damage control (as in, control through damage), but not actual control.

You can say that a war is being fought because Zelensky isn't a seasoned politician. If he was, he would have recognised the West's duplicity long ago. He wouldn't be stupidly asking for a no-fly zone or NATO involvement this deep into the war. But to more seasoned minds, he has been looking like a sociopathic fool since the beginning.
Zelensky is trying to escalate the conflict because getting NATO in the fray seems like the best way to get Russia to back down. However, MAD still works. America is not willing to fight Russia directly; just like Russia is not willing to fight America directly. The key to great power warfare is to go through proxies, it's how it's been fought in Korea and Vietnam (with the USSR and China providing not-that-discreet support to the proxy that was fighting America) and how it's been fought in Afghanistan (with America providing not-that-discreet support to the proxy that was fighting the USSR).

This is a song and dance we've had before. People who advocate for Zelensky to back down and surrender would have asked the same of Ho Chi Minh and Kim Il-Sung and Ahmad Shah Massoud...

It certainly sucks when you get to be the proxy. Why do you think France wanted to have its own independent nuclear deterrence?
 

The Russians are struggling with recon. That’s just one of the latest Ukraine battlefield assessments Marine Corps Commandant Gen. David Berger gave on Wednesday.

It appears that Ukrainians are disrupting the Russians’ movements, Berger said, in part by preventing Russians from having a clear understanding of “what’s in front of them,” and confusing the invading forces.

In addition, Ukrainians are winning the “information space,” Berger said, and using the “inherent strength” of being in a defensive position against an invading force, which can be difficult to overcome, Berger said.

“I think they're proving to be very disciplined, very well trained, very well led, and very inspired,” Berger said during a Washington Post Live virtual interview with columnist and author David Ignatius.

Russian forces in Ukraine, however, have been surprisingly bad at “combined arms,” he said, referring to the military discipline of using infantry, armored units, or artillery together against an enemy. While it’s not completely clear why the Russians are struggling, Berger believes one possibility is that the “picture that Ukrainian forces are painting” for the Russians could be causing confusion.

“In other words, their effectiveness at stripping away the reconnaissance for the Russian forces–which is what Marines are very, very good at–could be part of the equation. Said another way, if you're a Russian tactical commander right now on the ground, I'm not sure they have a good picture of what's in front of them. And I think Ukraine’s doing a fantastic job of denying that,” Berger said.
 
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Logistics. Their logistics suck. The reasons are well known, with corruption and incompetence, but mostly it's due to a difficult terrain. Everyone by now has learned the lovely word "rasputitsa"... Note how, in the South, where the soil is firmer, they have been able to advance a lot more.

Now picture in the result of applying "complete destruction of civilian infrastructure" as a solution when the problem is "terrible logistics".
I'm not sure that's the reason, or only reason anyway. I think the defences are a lot stronger in the North because the capital is there. But yes, their logistics have sucked, but also their combined arms and force co-ordination is poor. I also believe they're struggling to finance the day-to-day costs of this war, whereas Ukraine is not because the whole of Europe and North America are helping them with the funding, whereas Putin is on his own. China might buy his oil but they will not give him money.

As regards Korea, there were actually Russian pilots in that war and of course the Chinese became involved directly.

Destroying Ukraine fully would also mean that either he gets an unproductive drain on his resources until he can get it rebuilt; or he has to forget about annexing the best parts because there are no best parts anymore; he can abandon the mess he has created but that will not let him achieve the goals he had set for himself. It's at best damage control (as in, control through damage), but not actual control.
I think his main goal was keeping the oil and gas regions in Ukraine to himself so that Europe remained dependent on his oil and gas but the EU have seen now that being dependent on his oil and gas is a big problem and are working hard to become independent of it, so that has backfired to. In many ways Putin has made what he feared happening actually happen by trying to stop it. Sweden and Finland are now looking at joining NATO too, which would mean that he still gets NATO on his border unless he fancies fighting Winter War II simultaneously with The Ukraine War. It would have taken Ukraine a long, long time to get into NATO, if at all, whereas Finland's accession is likely to be much faster.
 
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