Wagner Group Mutiny Against Russia | Mercenaries moving across Lipetsk towards Moscow - Live Updates

That website is useless for Russia now. Plus they are militarising and Europe is not.
You are a useless source for Russia. Full of opinions with no substance.
Anyway, Ukraine started off with an army that's much bigger than all the main powers in Europe combined. The rest of Europe does not have such a large army. Even a combined British, French, German, Italian, Spanish, Polish and Finnish armies are smaller than the Ukrainian army. And in terms of active heavy weapons, it's very likely that what the Russians have on the field today is more than what the European component of NATO has in active service.
Ukraine had the 30th ranked military in the world in 2014 and 22nd in February 2022 and the 15th now.

All NATO assets could easily match it, and with NATO airpower that Russian equipment would not be on the field for long.
So, if Russia responds with an insurgency in Europe, I don't believe NATO will attack Russia, especially with the US distracted elsewhere.
The US isn't distracted anywhere right now and Europe is a more important trading partner for the US than anywhere else at any rate. It's dangerous thinking to suggest that NATO won't attack Russia. It's miscalculations like that, which have led to Russia's current situation in Ukraine, which is not even a NATO member... yet, but likely will be before long.

Ask yourself who's missiles have been getting through in the highest percentages? If Russia starts in a NATO country, Russia's ability to produce equipment for the ground or air will be gone inside the first week.
 
According to Russian media today, yesterday's happenings showed 'Russian unity' and 'nobody joined Wagner's rebellion'. I guess they must have been watching at something else.

 
That website is useless for Russia now. Plus they are militarising and Europe is not.

Anyway, Ukraine started off with an army that's much bigger than all the main powers in Europe combined. The rest of Europe does not have such a large army. Even a combined British, French, German, Italian, Spanish, Polish and Finnish armies are smaller than the Ukrainian army. And in terms of active heavy weapons, it's very likely that what the Russians have on the field today is more than what the European component of NATO has in active service.

So, if Russia responds with an insurgency in Europe, I don't believe NATO will attack Russia, especially with the US distracted elsewhere.
Additionally, I will take the liberty of pointing out that Putin could not commit large quantities of its forces, for the reasons demonstrated yesterday. And if they mobilise too many people to fight a war next door, that can also turnaround and bite them also. NATO countries don't have such concerns because we're not sh*thole dictatorships.
 
Dude, Wagner PMC with 25k people was ready for a ground war with Russia, and you think NATO isn't? 90% of Russian troops are stuck in trenches in Ukraine; there's no one guarding the borders -- even the borders with Ukraine, which is how those anti-Kremlin Russian militia could do their stunts in Belgorod Bilhorod's People Republic with some ridiculously small amount of troops.

It's Russia who's not ready for a ground war with NATO; and never will be.

25k didn't participate in the coup. In any case you are referring to the now, I'm talking about a future insurgency leading to war with NATO, post the Ukraine war, once Russia's militarisation is at its peak.

Anyway, what Prigozhin did, no country in the world can survive. His units were in reserve, ie, the units behind the last line of defence. There was obviously nothing behind him, I pointed that out very early on, that it's a free drive straight to Moscow.

The foray in Belgorod was conducted by many NATO troops too, Polish.

There are other NATO mercenaries involved as well alongside the UAF, and it's expected that many fighter jets will be piloted by NATO mercenaries.

They're losing tanks and artillery faster than they can produce new ones. Their "unstoppable supersonic missiles" are routinely downed by boring old Patriot systems; meanwhile they've been unable to shoot down the Storm Shadow missiles that were given to Ukraine. Ukraine has been kicking Russia's *censored* despite having to act under Russian air superiority.

At some point, reality has to enter the picture. Russia sucks, it is a thoroughly corrupt and dysfunctional country which has no chance of winning a fight against NATO.

The USSR imploded because it tried to keep up with the West and just couldn't. Russia is not the USSR; it's much smaller; while now the West is much bigger.

Russian tanks and artillery are fine, they are adding more than their losses via new builds and upgrades. Any increase in tank losses is just temporary due to the UAF offensive, the fighting will die down after a quick peak.

Russia has shown the ability to intercept the Storm Shadow. Otoh, it's unclear why the Russians have not simply saturated Kiev's defences, it's not like the Kinzhals were impossible to intercept, the Patriot exceeds that capability. Maybe they will do it once it's their turn to go on the offensive.

The USSR imploded due to the Dutch disease. Russia's not in the same boat. It's cash rich and has enough cash to challenge NATO militarily, not economically obviously. Russia is in a position where it can raise a giant army without it impacting its economy. And with its market diversified away from Europe, it doesn't have to worry about a slowdown in Europe affecting its revenues, staving off fears of a Dutch disease. The same is impossible for Europe, any attempt to match the Russians on the ground will see a massive downgrade in the quality of life.

Foreign mercenaries are not an insurgency.

Kashmir.

All Wagner has to do is establish a fiefdom in Belarus across the Baltics, where neither Putin nor Lukashenko "have power", and then start recruiting overzealous young Russians from the Baltics.

Anyway this discussion is highly speculative involving a downward spiral of escalations that leave Ukraine and involve Europe, with the worst case being a new war. What's more likely to happen is Russia creating problems in Europe via terrorists, mafias and gangs, and using that time to modernise over the next 10 years with their new wunderwaffen before actively planning an insurgency.

Whatever people like to believe, Russia is not one to sit quietly. This is a stupid war, all participants are gonna win stupid prizes.
 
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Additionally, I will take the liberty of pointing out that Putin could not commit large quantities of its forces, for the reasons demonstrated yesterday. And if they mobilise too many people to fight a war next door, that can also turnaround and bite them also. NATO countries don't have such concerns because we're not sh*thole dictatorships.

They need to double the size of their army and they are doing that, probably tripling it.
 
They need to double the size of their army and they are doing that, probably tripling it.
Who does? Russian can't.

Anyway...
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Okay, so this was anticlimactic.

This "march" was done as a form of protest. It was basically a prank, although some Wagner forces did die in air strikes along the route as well as some aircraft were shot at. It was all for Wagner to earn more money and other benefits before they go back on the offensive in Ukraine.

I don't know if Putin's martial law will continue, completing the psyops, but this wasn't a purge or a coup, or anything for that matter. Just a waste of a day and some unnecessary deaths, although Wagner might not think of it that way.
 
They need to double the size of their army and they are doing that, probably tripling it.
They have no chance of succeeding. The Russian population, by and large, isn't interested by a military career.

You have to understand a few things about the Russian mindset. The first is that they have gone through two decades of strictly-enforced political apathy. So they're apathetic. The reason they cheered Wagner on is that they thought they had a glimpse at getting rid of Putin, and that seemed to be the first exciting thing in their life. Yes, all the polls say that 90% of the Russian population worships Putin as a living god, but that's just how reliable polls always are in a dictatorship, especially one in which there are strong gravitational anomalies near every window that tend to just suck people out mysteriously...

The second is that, despite all the "patriotic" hype about the military, with theme parks and cathedrals and childhood indoctrination, the military is actually one of the most despised group in Russia. At least the common troops. Soldiers are seen as imbeciles, and those who enlist are seen as idiots. This is largely influenced by how most of the enlisted are indigenous groups from the poorest regions of Russia, as they see this as a ticket out of poverty. So all the racism of the Russian majority that is directed at these population rebounds on the Russian forces as a whole.

It's no wonder that, despite all the (lying) rhetoric about the nation being in danger and fighting a war for survival, the only argument that can actually sway people into enlisting is the promise of very large wages. Problem is, this only works as long as the potential recruits believe they will actually get paid. Stories of how they ended up not getting paid are spreading. This will make people more cautious. If the only reason you want to fight is to get paid, and you hear you will probably not get paid, why would you go on to risk your life?

Furthermore, there's the mercenary angle. The Russian military is competing for recruits with all the various PMCs. Sure, they're trying to solve this problem by just forcing them to fold into the Russian army; but this is Russia: following the law is for suckers.

And finally, there's Prigozhin's Stunt, which shows that you can get away with shooting down several helicopters and the Russian equivalent of an E-8 JSTARS, and get away with it by calling the Potato King of Belarus. This has done a lot, and will continue to do, a lot to fracture the image of the central power and the legitimacy of its authority.


So yes, let the Kremlin try to triple the size of its army. I'm sure that they'll manage to triple its size on paper, thanks to having a lot of virtual recruits that absolutely need real funds for a new yacht with a swimming pool I mean their equipment and training. But on the ground it will be very, very different, as it has always been in the land that invented the Potemkin Village.
 
Who does? Russian can't.

Anyway...
View attachment 28597

Russia is a self-sufficient trade surplus nation. When an exporter weakens its currency, it's called currency manipulation, 'cause production becomes cheaper and more economical and therefore more competitive.

For example, in 2013, if oil was $100 a barrel and they sold 3.5 mbpd of oil, they would earn roughly $128B or 4T rubles. That's 32 to a dollar.
Today, even at $60, they will earn 6.5T rubles. That's 86 to a dollar. So higher earnings compared to 2023.
 
They have no chance of succeeding. The Russian population, by and large, isn't interested by a military career.

You have to understand a few things about the Russian mindset. The first is that they have gone through two decades of strictly-enforced political apathy. So they're apathetic. The reason they cheered Wagner on is that they thought they had a glimpse at getting rid of Putin, and that seemed to be the first exciting thing in their life. Yes, all the polls say that 90% of the Russian population worships Putin as a living god, but that's just how reliable polls always are in a dictatorship, especially one in which there are strong gravitational anomalies near every window that tend to just suck people out mysteriously...

The second is that, despite all the "patriotic" hype about the military, with theme parks and cathedrals and childhood indoctrination, the military is actually one of the most despised group in Russia. At least the common troops. Soldiers are seen as imbeciles, and those who enlist are seen as idiots. This is largely influenced by how most of the enlisted are indigenous groups from the poorest regions of Russia, as they see this as a ticket out of poverty. So all the racism of the Russian majority that is directed at these population rebounds on the Russian forces as a whole.

It's no wonder that, despite all the (lying) rhetoric about the nation being in danger and fighting a war for survival, the only argument that can actually sway people into enlisting is the promise of very large wages. Problem is, this only works as long as the potential recruits believe they will actually get paid. Stories of how they ended up not getting paid are spreading. This will make people more cautious. If the only reason you want to fight is to get paid, and you hear you will probably not get paid, why would you go on to risk your life?

Furthermore, there's the mercenary angle. The Russian military is competing for recruits with all the various PMCs. Sure, they're trying to solve this problem by just forcing them to fold into the Russian army; but this is Russia: following the law is for suckers.

And finally, there's Prigozhin's Stunt, which shows that you can get away with shooting down several helicopters and the Russian equivalent of an E-8 JSTARS, and get away with it by calling the Potato King of Belarus. This has done a lot, and will continue to do, a lot to fracture the image of the central power and the legitimacy of its authority.


So yes, let the Kremlin try to triple the size of its army. I'm sure that they'll manage to triple its size on paper, thanks to having a lot of virtual recruits that absolutely need real funds for a new yacht with a swimming pool I mean their equipment and training. But on the ground it will be very, very different, as it has always been in the land that invented the Potemkin Village.

Wagner was respected in Rostov 'cause they are seen as heroes. It's also why Prigozhin struts around even without any political power.

The Russian military is mainly composed of Slavs, not ethnic minorities. And they do get enough recruits for contract service. But it's definitely true that they need to improve things big time if they want to retain soldiers without losing them to PMCs. And racism is definitely a problem, but also 'cause majority in the forces are white Slavs.

Putin and the oligarchs understand now that they need a capable military force, including a capable internal security force. So they are gonna adapt to their new situation. With that said, they need to regularly exercise their formations or they will only get a bunch of people in dresses riding floats. They have to improve training in the air force and navy as well, 70-100 hours a year is not enough for pilots.

The Potemkin village story is fake.
 
With that said, they need to regularly exercise their formations or they will only get a bunch of people in dresses riding floats.
Their military exercises are choreographed. They don't try to replicate real battle conditions. They don't know what to do in a real war.
They have to improve training in the air force and navy as well, 70-100 hours a year is not enough for pilots.
They'll never have the budget for that.
The Potemkin village story is fake.
The story of portable villages that are just façades is indeed a myth. But the actual story that was exaggerated into the myth, of villages where the parts that would be visited by the Empress were cleaned up and decorated to hide the squalor, that's historical fact.

And that's kind of what we see in Russia today, as we've seen in the Soviet Union before: a lot of "white lies", a lot of performances that are achieved on paper, but a reality that is far less rosy.